Liverpool of old - Future success ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby cpc4eva » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:40 am

I dont claim to know everything bout football or liverpool but correct me if im wrong guys the Liverpool of old's success had alot to do with much of the playing list coming up through the FA leagues with the odd few players from europe etc.

Yes time and football has changed.

But ever since the creation of THE PREMIERSHIP liverpool have failed to capture the championship and we have seen the squad become more and more filled with non U.K players.

Appears to be a correlation to when Liverpool was successful we had many UK based players in the squad and when we are struggling like in recent years we have many non U.K based players.

I got nothing against non U.K based players - they have done wonders for Man U and Arsenal and now Chelsea and the FA in general.

But look at the Liverpool U.K based playing List of the treble year 2001.

Gerrard
Owen
Fowler
Mc Aallister
Carragher
Barmby
Murphy
Heskey


How do u guys feel ???  do u think we perform better with more UK based players than non U.K based players ?
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Postby Starbridge42 » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:40 pm

wat about wen we were in the second division??? how much of our squad was uk based then? ???
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Postby woof woof ! » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:54 pm

It's not where a player is from ,it's how they fight for their club .
Uk players have always been noted for their determination (if not their skill :D ).The charge against foriegn players is often that they don't really care  but players like Riise and lately even little Garcia have shown that statement to be untrue.
It's not a players nationality that counts ,it's his character.


:)

p.s . just out of interest cpc4eva where are you from ?    :D
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Postby Sean » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:11 pm

Liverpool were considered a team of foreigners in 1986 when we won the F.A. cup without a single english man in the first 11:

Grobbelaar, Nicol, Beglin, Hansen, Lawrenson, Johnston, McDonald, Molby, Whelan, Dalglish, Rush.

Compared to teams today that '86 team was like a local team.
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Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:39 pm

woof woof ! wrote:It's not where a player is from ,it's how they fight for their club .
Uk players have always been noted for their determination (if not their skill :D ).The charge against foriegn players is often that they don't really care  but players like Riise and lately even little Garcia have shown that statement to be untrue.
It's not a players nationality that counts ,it's his character.


:)

p.s . just out of interest cpc4eva where are you from ?    :D

yeah i agree, its not where your from its how good you are.
another interesting thing that may be related is the lack of players coming from scotland. for a hundred years scottish players have played in the english top division and more often than not they were usually either the star player or very influential in the side.
many of the great english sides had a scottish backbone like leeds with billy bremner, spurs with dave mckay, forest with john mcgovern and arsenals 71 double winning captain frank mcclintock not to mention our long tradition from liddell to st john to daglish etc.
hundreds of good scottish pro`s like strachan, eddie gray, jordan, buchan, lorrimer, frank gray, gemmill, robertson, burley etc used to ply their trade here, maybe the lack of players from north of the border has something to do with it?
just a thought.
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Postby cpc4eva » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:10 am

Im from Melbourne, Australia.  Hows the weather there lads ?

Very true its not where ur from its all about character and the succesful clubs since the premiership was formed have had a strong foreign playlist.

but I just get the feeling we play better with more UK based players in our squad. 

Our succesful teams in the past have had a spirit and character second to none. Most of our successful teams have had a large number of UK based players in the squad.

Our UK based players seem to have more fight and dog-edness in them and our foreign players add some flair.

As im a fan from afar I dont get to live and breathe LIVERPOOL - wish I could  :D

What was the squad like when we were in 2nd division ?  When were we in 2nd division ??
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Postby Judge » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:37 am

2nd division in the sixties
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Postby LFC #1 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:39 am

dunno what the sqaud was like but we were in the 2nd division in the late 50's and early 60's i believe. shankly was appointed in 1959 and turned us from a 2nd division team into league title winners in 63-64, the rest is history.  :)
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Postby LFC #1 » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:48 am

this is taken from the history section of lfc.tv:

December 1st 1959 is a date that will forever be etched in the annals of Anfield history. For it was on this day that Liverpool Football Club announced Huddersfield Town boss Bill Shankly would be their new manager in succession to Phil Taylor.


Since suffering relegation in 1954 the Reds had tried in vain to secure their return to the top-flight. Successive near misses had taken their toll on Taylor and on November 17th he resigned.

No one knew at the time but the Reds were about to enter their most exciting era. Second Division mediocrity was to soon be a thing of the past as Shanks set about transforming the club's fortunes and supporting Liverpool would never be the same again.

Bill Shankly (LFC manager 1959-74): In 1951 Liverpool sent for me and offered me the job as manager but the only snag was that the manager didn't pick the team so I went and got the train at Exchange Station and went home. Nine years later they came back and offered me the job on my terms. I was the first manager to pick the team at Liverpool.



Ronnie Moran (LFC player 1952-69): He came in December 1959 and I was in the team then. We've had good managers since Bill but he was the one that resurrected the club.

John Keith (Local journalist & author): He'd not managed any big club's before. The biggest club he'd managed was, I suppose, Huddersfield, the one he'd came from to Liverpool. I don't think anyone appreciated what Bill was like and I think the fans were wandering, 'What have we got here, who is this we have signed'. But, of course, it didn't take them very long to realise that this was the messiah. The man Liverpool wanted. They were made for each other.

Bill Shankly (speaking at the time of his appointment): I am very pleased and proud to have been chosen as manager of Liverpool FC, a club of such great potential. This appointment is a challenge to me. It is my opinion that Liverpool have a crowd of followers which rank with the greatest in the game. They deserve success and I hope, in my small way, to be able to do something towards helping them achieve it. When the challenge was made to me I simply could not refuse to accept it.

Roger Hunt (LFC player 1959-69): When Bill Shankly came he changed a lot of the training methods we had and brought a lot of new ideas into the club. Also, he got the club to spend money on transfers, which they were a bit reluctant to do beforehand. We got new training kit and altogether he brought a new way of thinking to the club. He was like a breath of fresh air.

Ronnie Moran: He loved the support here. He'd been with these lower division clubs previously but here we were averaging crowds of over 45,000 in the Second Division and he revelled in it. He knew that with the support Liverpool had it was a club waiting to take off. All's he needed to do was give them a winning team to support.

John Keith: He had played at Anfield before and knew what the fans were like. He compared them to the fans in Glasgow who he liked very much, 'They'd give you their last penny,' he would say. So he had a kinship with the fans right away. This great rapport was two fold and he became like the pied piper. Right through his life he attracted people and the people loved Bill Shankly. As the legend on his statue says – 'He made the people happy.'

Shanks breezed through the gates of a then decrepit old stadium like a breath of fresh air and immediately set about the task of revolutionising the training schedule, modernising the facilities and radically shaking up the playing staff.

Stephen Done (LFC museum curator): While he could see there was potential in the club, what we have to try and remember is that back in 1959 this club was in a bad state. Perhaps no worse than many First Division clubs of today but compared to the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton, who were very wealthy at that time, Liverpool Football Club was in a bit of a mess and quite frankly wasn't going anywhere fast. It had plenty of money but wasn't spending it.

Bill Shankly: I don't know if you ever saw Anfield when I first came but it was the biggest toilet in Liverpool! We had to bring the water in from Oakfield Road and it cost £3,000. There was no water to flush the toilets.

Stephen Done: Melwood, by all accounts, was an old wooden shed and the grass was worse than on a park for Sunday football. It was shambolic. In fact they hardly ever used to do any training there, they just used to go on road runs. Training on tarmac was, of course, not ideal seeing as you actually play the game on grass. How that method worked no one is quite sure! They'd also ran up and down sand dunes and stuff like that. Basically the ground was shabby, the training was shabby and the directors picked the team, which was typical of the time. But Shankly wasn't having any of this.

Ronnie Moran: He got rid of a lot of players early on and then he brought players in who were like-minded in their thinking about the game. If he didn't get what he wanted off them then they too would be away. He'd either leave them out of the team or get rid of them to other clubs.

Dave Hickson (LFC player 1959-61): Bill had his own way of doing things. He had a great love of the game and nobody was unbeatable with him. Everyone has heard the stories before about how he would rubbish the great players like Bobby Charlton and Billy Wright in order to give his team confidence. All the things you've heard about the psychology of Bill Shankly are true. It was wonderful.

Ronnie Moran: He introduced a lot on small-sided games into our training, which was great because before that we'd always done a lot of running. And he'd watch players closely because his train of thought was if players do not work hard in training then they won't work hard on matchdays. We didn't win all the time initially but we didn't lose as many as we had been.

Stephen Done: The one thing he didn't change however was the backroom staff. He recognised that there was already coaching staff at the club of great note and of course the bootroom was born by retaining these guys.

Ronnie Moran: Bill was an honest type of bloke and he probably knew Bob, Joe and Rueben from his earlier days in the game. He'd have known what characters they were and as it turned out they had great success together.

Shankly's officially took charge of his first Liverpool game on December 19th. Unfortunately, he could only sit and watch as the Reds crashed to a 4-0 home defeat against Cardiff City. Another loss at Charlton followed a week later but on December 28th he recorded his first win – 2-0 in the Anfield return against the Addicks – and a new era was up and running.

Peter Hooton (LFC fan & former lead singer of The Farm): If we'd have had a less charismatic manager things might not have developed as they have done for this club. Shankly once famously said that he wanted to build this club into an institution, a bastion of invincibility where opposing teams would come and think, 'Oh no, we're playing Liverpool.'

Bill Shankly: My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea and he conquered the bloody world! And that's what I wanted. For Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in.

Stephen Done: No one must ever forget that he absolutely revolutionised Liverpool Football Club. And he set up a system that lasted right through to the days when Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan and then Kenny Dalglish took over. Right up until say the beginning of the Nineties, what Shankly started continued.

Peter Hooton: Since the Sixties, Liverpool's record is second to none, in Europe as well. And there is an actual feeling that there is an institution here. And even though we've had tragedies, tragedies we've all cried over, there was always that feeling that this is a special club. Not many clubs have got that and obviously we have to thank Bill Shankly for that. Everything stems from the day he came to Anfield in December 1959.
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Postby XSD » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:53 am

I think foreign players are capable of playing with the same passion. I get the impression from Riise recently he is a dedicated red, like Carra.

Look at Wenger, his French players love him and he gets them playing to win and no doubt they are very passionate about Arsenal now. Ferguson has done the same with his title winning sides, he instills the Man UTD mentality into them and breaks them into his regime, they either play with the determination he demands and for the pride of their club or they don't last.
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Postby haps » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:05 pm

Afraid to say you're all wrong.  Liverpool FC's success or lack thereof has little to do with the UK/international composition of the squad.  Careful research has actually revealed that it is closely linked to the appearance (or non-appearance) of Dr. Who in the BBC schedules.  It reigned supreme over Saturday night entertainment throughout the 70's and 80's.  At the start of the 90's it all went tits-up and disappeared, around about the time that LFC disappeared.  Now it's coming back.  We've got Rafa and a fresh purpose. 
Stick that it yer pipe.
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Postby cpc4eva » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:01 am

haps wrote:Afraid to say you're all wrong.  Liverpool FC's success or lack thereof has little to do with the UK/international composition of the squad.  Careful research has actually revealed that it is closely linked to the appearance (or non-appearance) of Dr. Who in the BBC schedules.  It reigned supreme over Saturday night entertainment throughout the 70's and 80's.  At the start of the 90's it all went tits-up and disappeared, around about the time that LFC disappeared.  Now it's coming back.  We've got Rafa and a fresh purpose. 
Stick that it yer pipe.

:D  yer - u know something ur right.  Dr who was on aus tv for ages and then it disapperaed in the 90s and now making a come back :p 

ya cheeky bastasrd :laugh:


Hey thanks for that History of Liverpool really good read. 

good point made about Ferguson and Wenger.  Those managers are uncomprimising  in their management and are somewhat similar to shankly.

Yer I like risse havnt seen much of cara yet - damn aussie tv used to have english premier leaugue and FA cup on atleast once sometimes twice a week then murdoch came along a few years ago with his pay tv (FOXTEL its called here) and theres no more english soccer / football on free to air tv channels.

gee theres no higher praise you could give shankly - what a culture he developed at the club, lets hope it comes back soon.
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Postby Starbridge42 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:33 am

Ay i didnt realise u were aussie mate,
same here queensland meself, n ur damn rite about murdoch.  Cheeky ****** taking away the epl from sbs, and i hear that fox sports has the rights to the new a-league as well :(
At least we still get Champions league and international football on sbs.

Oh yeah, if Dr Who is the link then we're in a bit of trouble, far as i can tell when it started making a comeback here it was cos it was a novelty.  Viewer ratings are already plummeting... i guess we'll just have to hope it keeps coming back in england :p
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