Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:10 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Debt to Equity ratio limits are the only realistic answer. I have spoken.

That would be a start but for as long as the EPL is as competitive as it is I just can't see it happening.

RE. BigMick's post, I think you need to include more caveats.

What's a caveat?

by **LFC2007** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:15 pm

bigmick wrote:What's a caveat?

In this context, more conditions/provisos in respect of the possible financial situations of each of the clubs. If those conditions apply to our own situation, I think they have to apply to Chelsea and the Manc's too.

by **Reg** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:15 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Debt to Equity ratio limits are the only realistic answer. I have spoken.

That would be a start but for as long as the EPL is as competitive as it is I just can't see it happening.

RE. BigMick's post, I think you need to include more caveats.

What's a caveat?

What your dad used to wear round his neck ! :laugh:

by **Reg** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:17 pm

bigmick wrote:The Mancs will depend very much on who replaces Ferguson (I actually think he should have left after they won the Premiership last season, I think he's left the squad too weak this time around).

If the mancs dont win this season I wont blame fergiebottle, its plain he wasnt allowed to reinvest the 85 million Ronaldo money... reducing owner´s debt again......

Chelsea wont win either come the day they have to start selling their best players to pay back RA.

by **Madmax** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:56 am

Next 8 years....

I think united, chelsea will always be there challenging for the title. If man city break into europe next season and continue to attract stars all over the globe then im sure they will be there with the others.

As for us if we lose out on the champions league spot for next season i could see us drifting away from the other elite and we shall be challenging always for forth spot. With the cack owners we have what else could one expect!

by **kazza** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:54 am

Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Debt to Equity ratio limits are the only realistic answer. I have spoken.

That would be a start but for as long as the EPL is as competitive as it is I just can't see it happening.

RE. BigMick's post, I think you need to include more caveats.

What's a caveat?

What your dad used to wear round his neck !

I thought it was how big a diamond is. Oops, russian doll

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:14 pm

bigmick wrote:Arsenal will surely win the Premiership at least once

but if they don't it doesn't matter anyway. they'll still clearly be a team in transition who win bugger all because they've never spent any money ever.

by **Reg** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:10 pm

kazza wrote:
Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Debt to Equity ratio limits are the only realistic answer. I have spoken.

That would be a start but for as long as the EPL is as competitive as it is I just can't see it happening.

RE. BigMick's post, I think you need to include more caveats.

What's a caveat?

What your dad used to wear round his neck !

I thought it was how big a diamond is. Oops, russian doll

Thats a carrot ! :laugh:

My old man used to sell carrots........

by **Espionage** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:45 pm

I have put this out there whenever these kinds of arguments are raised. I think its an intelligent system:

The NBA version of the salary cap: Lets say the cap is 100 units, you can spend over the cap, but to do so you effectively pay double. An example would be just say Man City wants to spend 150 on wages, they then have to donate 50 to a fund that then gets spread around all other teams (i.e the cost to them is 150+50=200).

This scheme incentivises clubs to stay as close to 100 as possible, and if teams go above it, they are helping their competitors. This will not only stop the Man City's of the world, but also shorten the gap between big clubs and small.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:53 pm

Espionage wrote:I have put this out there whenever these kinds of arguments are raised. I think its an intelligent system:

The NBA version of the salary cap: Lets say the cap is 100 units, you can spend over the cap, but to do so you effectively pay double. An example would be just say Man City wants to spend 150 on wages, they then have to donate 50 to a fund that then gets spread around all other teams (i.e the cost to them is 150+50=200).

This scheme incentivises clubs to stay as close to 100 as possible, and if teams go above it, they are helping their competitors. This will not only stop the Man City's of the world, but also shorten the gap between big clubs and small.

Its called a soft cap with a luxury tax. The NBA also has a absolute maximum hard cap that you cannot spend over however much you want to, and they also have all kinds of weird rules about how you can go over the soft cap. If your already above it, you cannot sign new players to big contracts, but you would be allowed to re-sign players who have been with the club for 3 years and if their new salary puts the team over the cap, that is ok. Then there is the mid-level exception, which says each team over the cap is allowed to sign one veteran player each year to a medium sized contract as long as it doesn't take them over the hard cap.

The baseball system, I believe is much less complex. There are no spending limits, but there is a luxury tax that each team pays for every dollar over a certain amount. Of the 30 teams I think only 2 pay the tax. The Red Sox pay a little bit of tax, and the Yankees pay a boat load.

Not a big fan of hard caps, because they will either be set so high that they wont have much effect, or set too low to drive the players to earn more money in another country.

I do think luxury taxes are a good idea though. Especially in a system where you have to compete against other leagues (most american sports leagues are monopolies and are essentially ownership cartels, and caps are a way to control spending). the luxury tax system would allow the big clubs to spend big and bring in the big names that people want to see (especially the outside tv eyes that help everybody make money) and then the tax revenue helps the bottom teams stay somewhat competitive. The more competitive the league combined with exciting top level players, the higher the tv deal. Since domestic tv deals are split more or less evenly, the bigger the tv deal, the less the difference between other income streams matters.

The biggest "flaw" is that because of relegation lots of the bottom teams are missing out on the revenue every year, and their financial planning gets all messed up with such a huge differnence in revenue and no way to properly forcast how many seasons will be in the prem and how many in the championship. So the gap would only slightly close between the top teams and the top half of the table. But then there is the CL money that helps further "cement" the big 4 teams in their spots.

Another issue that is non-existent in American sports is the transfer fee. completely foreign to us. we just have player for player(s) trades, and in the NBA, the amount of money in the contracts have to add up to pretty much the same in order to do a trade. One of the strange consequences of this rule is that grossley overpaid players on the last year of their contract are very valuable trading chips

by **kazza** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:19 pm

Reg wrote:
kazza wrote:
Reg wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Debt to Equity ratio limits are the only realistic answer. I have spoken.

That would be a start but for as long as the EPL is as competitive as it is I just can't see it happening.

RE. BigMick's post, I think you need to include more caveats.

What's a caveat?

What your dad used to wear round his neck !

I thought it was how big a diamond is. Oops, russian doll

Thats carrot !

Yeah he was funny. I enjoyed watching him as a kid, always made fun of Sun readers

by **Kash_Mountain** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 pm

bavlondon wrote:Those who have money will be sucessfull. Those who don't will not. Where we will be is anyones guess but if things stay the same I can only imagine we will drift into mid table.

Mr optimistic- Bav, take a bottle of the finest Cognac and chill. LFC will be alright. Trust me, we'll be alright.

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