Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:20 pm

I've been reading this thing in the Observer over the last couple of weeks re' the state of English football. Feeling seems to be that like in all the major European countries, the CL has polarised the top division meaning that the top couple of teams are able to dominate financially and on the pitch.
The days of Ipswich, Forest or even Everton (tee-hee) winning in Europe are long gone, even competing in their own country is a pipe-dream.
Is it time for U.S. style budget-caps to level the playing field somewhat? Is it time to for a Europe-wide agreement for fairer distribution of gate reciepts, salary caps etc? Is it time for the top clubs to 'bog off' into a European league (I do include us in this) and let the likes of Southampton, Villa etc have a chance of winning something?
If something isn't done, where will we be in 10 years time? Will everything be OK or will the season be even more predictable than it is now? Do we leave well alone?

by **Sean** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:40 pm

Good points bigmick. For years the scottish league was laughed at because the two Glasgow teams simply shared all the titles and cups between them. The premiership is going down the same road with at the moment only 3 teams seriously capable of winning the league.

Derby, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Liverpool won the league dring the '70's. Liverpool, Arsenal, Aston Villa and Everton won it in the '80's and Ipswich came very close twice. Even Leeds won in 1992. But unfortunately since then money has dictated who has a chance of winning the premiership.

Football is going to the dogs. Footballers are now completely detached from the fans. In fact I reckon alot of footballers laugh at fans paying good money to watch them on Saturday afternoons while they (the footballers) earn ridiculous wages.

In the mid 90's the infux of foreigners added interest to the premiership. But now. I reckon that the best thing that could happen english football would be for it to go bust. All the mercenary foreigners would ****** off back home, players would have to take huge reductions in wages and football might just recover it's soul....however, until that happens whoever has the biggest cheque books will be competing for the league.

by **JBG** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:41 pm

I agree with much of that Mick.

Money and tv is spoiling the game. There will be no more Forests or Ipswich's if things keep going the way they are.

We need a wage cap and more even distribution of tv money.

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:48 pm

a wage cap would never work.
In my opnion we need a cap on foreign players so we can nurture the youth we have and that should make the leagues more interesting.
I have a lot of friends who follow teams int he championship and they are loving the football as week by week you never know who is going to be where in the league.
The distribution of tv money has to be sorted as well but we have seen with teams like leeds and blackburn that money is just a quick fix and doesnt mean everything will be rosy.

Also, im not good on the facts, but in the last 30 years have there really been that many league winners?
It always seems to me that in each generation there are 3 teams that fight it out

by **Redtribe** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:50 pm

Good post again Mick!

I would personaly reduce the amount of teams and have three divisions!
Smaller teams would either merge which would cause uproar or go down to Semi pro status in the Conference.
Make a larger amount payable to smaller teams by the larger clubs (some kind of taxation system)
Cap wage bills across Europe (the likes of bowyer and the leeds brat pack where born from boys earning too much money)(less wages also allows for the taxation for lower division sides)!!
Provide more acadamies throughout the league with a huge change in the mentality of coaching.
Looking at the Dutch and French Systems would help ten Fold (IMO).

Wow this could go on forever but its a start!

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:17 pm

the tax idea sounds good. football is like an economy and a tax system is present in most of them. it makes sense.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:34 pm

I've always been a bit of a cynic Daws' about wage-capping and the like, but apparantly it is the norm' in the U.S. and in Aussie rules which is easily the biggest sport over there. 'Just seems to me that if nothing is done, over the next 10 years Arsenal will qualify for the CL 10 times. As long as Abrhamovic sticks around so will Chelsea, like as not ManU as well. That leaves us and Newcastle/Birmingham/Middlesboro etc to fight it out for the other spot. Given the huge financial rewards at stake, in ten years time the gap between the top three and the rest may become insurmountable. Whether I'd be saying this if we were in that top three I don't know, I'd like to think I would though.
Imagine though being a season ticket holder at say, Southampton. Can't win the league obviously, extremely unlikely you can get into Europe and defo' not into the CL. Can't in all probability win the FA Cup because the big teams decide that they'll compete in that tournament. It's pretty unlikely too that you can win the League Cup either (I can't keep up with the names) because the biggest clubs third teams can beat your first. If you happen to discover a half-decent player (Beattie for instance) he spends two seasons kissing the club badge and telling you "once a saint always a saint" before he sods off to sit on the bench of a big club for twice the money you can afford to pay him.
Oh and by the way, that season ticket has gone up 25% this season to help us pay bigger wages to compete with the big boys. Cold burger? 4 quid. Programme? 4 quid. Cheaper tickets for the kids? nah mate.
Game of golf anyone?

by **Sean** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:45 pm

Regardless of what Andy Gray and his buddies will tell you the day Rupert Murdoch was allowed buy into football, the game changed for the worse.

by **XSD** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:49 pm

Wage caps, foreign player caps etc...
These ideas would result in the decline of all the EPL and the big clubs inside it.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:54 pm

Right aren't we all starting to judge a bit quickly here?

It's been what? 10 years? 11 years since the start of the premiership?

Lets think about it a second.... has it ever happened that teams have dominated for long periods in the past?

Is it possible to break into these brackets with the right management, commitment and application...

Look at Man Utd at the moment and look at ourselves... Money doesn't garentee success.

It helps, but its not the be all and end all.

by **taff** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:57 pm

Read the same article bigmick and it is worrying, I think we should definitely look at other sports to see how they do it although how practical will it be in Football with a lot more history and tradition.

I can see the emergence of super clubs in the future and mergers between clubs if the seriously want to compete maybe Bristol and Sheffield as one club respectively for example

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:01 pm

I think the issue is XSD, that the thing is in decline anyway. In terms of TV audiences, advertising revenue etc most sports economists are likening soccer to snooker before the crash 15 or so years ago. This is why UEFA have comissioned a survey and report on the subject to see if they can address the decline. I think if its looked at with a cold heart, the big clubs getting even bigger is absolutely inevitable in the current circumstances. Already, the bigger clubs are at a massive advantage in being able to maintain a bigger and better squad than their counterparts and the gap is widening.
Taken to its absolution of course, the Premier league could be any one from ten or twelve teams going for the title, the bookies going 8/1 the field at the start. Would it be better, fairer, of a higher quality? Don't know but the days of TV companies paying people to attend matches to give a better atmosphere can't be too far away. Any measures would of course have to be Europewide, if not worldwide.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:22 pm

You know what, if everyone supported there local team, there wouldn't be problems like this.

Sorry couldn't resist that one kids.

by **L-type** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:32 pm

I'm american I follow other sports such as american football and the salary cap works wonders to keep the ibramovich's of the world at bay, while not being to restricting. Take the Yankees for example when they want another good player they usually must trade another to balance out the salary cap. This disperses the talent arpund the league, which is a start.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:34 pm

No. Not a good idea. I'm sorry but i don't agree with any of this.

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