LIVERPOOL VS MANCHESTER UNITED - Its time....its time to finally beat the

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby tel » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:06 am

bigmick wrote:I think we'd have possibilities if it was one team to catch. If it was Arsenal a few wins ahead of us, Man Utd and Chelsea then I'd be fairly sure that at least one of us would get close to them. Similarly, whether or not this particular Manchester United team is upto previous ones, ones who could lead out from a long way home and not come back, I'm not so sure.

The trouble is though we are behind three teams, not one. We're maybe only a fraction behind Chelsea, but they have to play the other three big four teams at Home in the second half, whereas we have to play all three Away which makes a huge difference. We are fourth now by a fair way in real and in actual terms, and catching up three teams all at once is not just a mountain to climb, it's nigh on impossible in my view. No doubt somebody will invoke the spirit of Istanbul, but it's worth remembering we were only 3-0 down to one team there.

As for Maguskwt's point about me jinkxing it, don't worry mate I'm not :D I think we'll beat Portsmouth at Home on Saturday. I think for starters that both of our best players will be on the pitch from the first whistle, no messing about. We didn't lose our chances of winning the league by getting beat by Man Utd, but we certainly dealt ourselves a massive body blow by choosing to start neither of them the last time we ran into Redknapps team.

I still think we'll go close. Rafa's track record is that we play much better after xmas than before, and we can expect a long undefeated run.

We are also a better team under rafa at getting a draw away from home against the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea, than beating them at home.

And Rafa finally knows what his best team is

Except for Man U, we'll take a point back off the other 2 both times we travel to London.

And Manu and Chelsea have dropped points this season they didnt drop last.

Lets see how long Arsenal can maintain the momentum. They still dont strike me as having the grunt to snatch a win when things are going against them.
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Postby Bermenstein » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:18 am

In a nutshell, this game was a coinflip, and Utd won the toss. We stifled Ronaldo, Rooney & Giggs, yet they still managed to come out on top.

We were very closely matched if that is any consolation. We have to take the 3 point back at Old Trafford, hopefully with 1 more class player in our first 11.

And no more "Reading" type gift's to other teams.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:58 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
akumaface wrote:I think we did give our best effort provided that Man Scum are more fresh than us as most of their player didn't play in mid week. I think after this game Rafa will realize what he should do the rest of the way Which is to play their strongest team consistently with minimal changes. I think Man Scum didn't have a good game as well. People here saying we don't have any wingers and neither do the Man Scum. We just lost by a set play. I don't see them ever overpowering us in anyway today. When we couldn't score at the beginning when they got mixed up with Van der sar and vidic, i had that feeling again and unfortunately it came true. Anyway, let's see what happened after meeting with the big boss. We were just out of gas and the mid game was the reason for us not to sustain the full match.

So...

The scum won because most of their players DIDN'T play in midweek (a rotation of the squad), but it's our rotation that's the problem, even though it was an unchanged side?

Stay off the bifta's lad.

they could afford to play their youth team in midweek as they had already qualified

swings and roundabouts

Is stating the obvious a rare commodity in a country where most women were born with meat and two veg?

and you would know this because you have visted thailand...................................how many times?   thats right never.

lando i suggest you keep your racist abuse to yourself, you have the nerve to call me a bigot while you spout such racist vitriol.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:26 am

Losing by a narrow margin to a good team bothers me less than getting beat 3-1 by Reading.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:44 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:Losing by a narrow margin to a good team bothers me less than getting beat 3-1 by Reading.

bust sadly we lost both those games, if we had beat reading then this defeat would be more tolerable, however the loss of yet another 6 points in one week is not good mate however its dressed up or justified
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:08 am

If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:15 am

s@int wrote:If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?

mate aresenal have to lose three more games than us this season for us to win the league (not taking into account the mancs and chelsea, and even man city) and for this to work we have to win all of our games, now we cant even beat sh*te like reading and pompey so how you think we can go the rest of the season unbeaten (bare in mind only 4 wins in 21 games against the other top three teams)

this season is over yet again in the league, it was over weeks ago to be fair, and we all know whose fault it is however much the idiots on here try and gloss over everything
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:21 am

peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?

mate aresenal have to lose three more games than us this season for us to win the league (not taking into account the mancs and chelsea, and even man city) and for this to work we have to win all of our games, now we cant even beat sh*te like reading and pompey so how you think we can go the rest of the season unbeaten (bare in mind only 4 wins in 21 games against the other top three teams)

this season is over yet again in the league, it was over weeks ago to be fair, and we all know whose fault it is however much the idiots on here try and gloss over everything

We don't have to go unbeaten, we can drop points, just have to make sure we drop 8 less than the rest. Arsenal dropped 11 points in the first half of the season, they may drop even more in the second half.

They dont have to lose mate..... 2 draws is WORSE than a win and a loss.

We need a great run, and I am not saying it will be easy or even likely, but I am fkd if I am giving up half way through the season when we may be only 7 points behind.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:24 am

s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?

mate aresenal have to lose three more games than us this season for us to win the league (not taking into account the mancs and chelsea, and even man city) and for this to work we have to win all of our games, now we cant even beat sh*te like reading and pompey so how you think we can go the rest of the season unbeaten (bare in mind only 4 wins in 21 games against the other top three teams)

this season is over yet again in the league, it was over weeks ago to be fair, and we all know whose fault it is however much the idiots on here try and gloss over everything

We don't have to go unbeaten, we can drop points, just have to make sure we drop 8 less than the rest. Arsenal dropped 11 points in the first half of the season, they may drop even more in the second half.

They dont have to lose mate..... 2 draws is WORSE than a win and a loss.

We need a great run, and I am not saying it will be easy or even likely, but I am fkd if I am giving up half way through the season when we may be only 7 points behind.

fair enough, personally i cant see it, as much as i want it to happen i think rafa does not have it in him to deliver the league, as i point out mate we still have to play the other top 3 teams and we have a terrible record against them
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:37 am

peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?

mate aresenal have to lose three more games than us this season for us to win the league (not taking into account the mancs and chelsea, and even man city) and for this to work we have to win all of our games, now we cant even beat sh*te like reading and pompey so how you think we can go the rest of the season unbeaten (bare in mind only 4 wins in 21 games against the other top three teams)

this season is over yet again in the league, it was over weeks ago to be fair, and we all know whose fault it is however much the idiots on here try and gloss over everything

We don't have to go unbeaten, we can drop points, just have to make sure we drop 8 less than the rest. Arsenal dropped 11 points in the first half of the season, they may drop even more in the second half.

They dont have to lose mate..... 2 draws is WORSE than a win and a loss.

We need a great run, and I am not saying it will be easy or even likely, but I am fkd if I am giving up half way through the season when we may be only 7 points behind.

fair enough, personally i cant see it, as much as i want it to happen i think rafa does not have it in him to deliver the league, as i point out mate we still have to play the other top 3 teams and we have a terrible record against them

We have a terrible record against them for one reason and one reason only, they have had much better teams than we have had. This season we outplayed Chelsea, out played the Mancs and were just second best against Arsenal. I think we are almost as good as them now mate, and if we come strong second half of the season as we usually do, who knows, we may be even better than them.
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Postby bigmick » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:21 am

Well we'll see as far as whether we still win the league or not. I can't help thinking that the ones who are still optimistic are probably in the minority as of now, and I must confess I think we are realistically huge outsiders (much bigger than 16/1 in truth). We've picked up 30 points from sixteen games so far, leaving us 22 games to go. Arsenal have 40 from seventeen, Manchester United 39 from seventeen. Based on that, I would have thought that mid to high eighties will probably be needed to win the title.

If we assume it's 85 points or so, we need to pick up around 55 points from our next 22 games. Sounds Ok when you put it like that. 18 wins and four draws would probably bring the title to Anfield with us picking up 58 points, a total of 88. 17 wins, four draws and one defeat would also see us go extremely close, but all the while it's worth remembering that we have a nightmare finish, Away matches at the other big four teams coming thick and fast in the run-in.

Based on what we have seen in the first sixteen games, what can we expect? Well I would have thought it's a certainty that we'll see the occasional strange selection, both in personel and in formation. We'll get away with it usually, but occasionally it will trip us up Reading style, or completely derail us a la Pompey. On the visits to the other big teams, what can we expect? Well historically it would be unwise to expect too much, but perhaps the team will surprise us. Clearly though it won't be easy. My prediction FWIW is that we'll win around 14 of our remaining games, drawing four and losing four putting us on a total of around 76 points. I fancy man Utd will actually get to about 88, meaning we finish around 12 points shy.

Anyway whatever anybody predicts or however unlikely any scenarios of us winning at the other big four teams are, what we need to do in the short term is keep ourselves mathematically in the race. If we can get to the run-in no further back than we currently are, then you never know. Should we pull out the stops and win the first of our trio of big away gnm away fixtures, you never know. For now it's got to be hang in there and see what happens.
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Postby LittleHobo » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:37 am

ahh you gotta love the blind biasness of some fans

optimism is nice but i just cant see us getting within 15 points of the title this season......the rotation has proved to not work in the premiership, whos to say it will in the second half of the season

big mick is spot on in my opinion
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Postby maguskwt » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:47 am

s@int wrote:If we win our game in hand, we are only 7 points behind Arsenal. I am willing to bet they will all lose a lot more than 7 points before the end of the season. All we have to do is lose 8 points less than they do. If that means going on a great run, so be it , lets fkn do it.

Everyone was moaning and groaning about Rafa giving up against Reading before the end, what are you lot doing now ?

yes this is exactly what i've been saying...

to be fair... it's not easy having 4 competitive teams in the league... but if we can get draws at the bridge, old trafford and emirates and all wins against other teams it will be very close... it is NOT impossible... I don't wanna say whether we're gonna win it or not... but do the above and we shall see... as long as we're up there fighting for the title, I will be quite satisfied with the progress we've made this season...

as others have pointed out, we are probably 1-2 class players short of winning the title... but we might even win it with the current squad... when babel, lucas, arbeloa, benayoun settles in more and alonso, agger, aurelio, pennant makes full recoveries from their injuries, our squad will be very very strong... we just need a CB cover... Look at arsenal last season and this season... a world of difference...
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Postby maguskwt » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:52 am

LittleHobo wrote:.....the rotation has proved to not work in the premiership, whos to say it will in the second half of the season

theoretically the benefits of rotation kicks in in the second half of the season mate... that's the main reason of rotation...
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Postby bigmick » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:39 am

maguskwt wrote:to be fair... it's not easy having 4 competitive teams in the league... but if we can get draws at the bridge, old trafford and emirates and all wins against other teams it will be very close... it is NOT impossible...

Mate if we draw at Old Trafford, The Emirates and Stamford bridge and win the other 19 games, we will finish on 90 points. That would almost certainly be enough to win it I would have thought. Put another way, win at the Bridge and lose at both the Emirates and Old Trafford, and as long as we win the other nineteen games on the bounce we would be Champions. Like you say it's not impossible, but it's not that likely either if we're being totally honest.
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