Liverpool FC Forum

woof woof ! » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:37 pm wrote:

I don't think anyone can lay any of the blame for this fiasco at the managers door

  I can think of a number of managers who would EXPECT and ACCEPT the blame for "this fiasco" being laid at their door, mainly because they really were MANAGERS.

When I absolve him of any blame mate ,I'm not suggesting he's acted accordingly ,merely pointing out his guest appearance in this billionaires soap opera has
been less than memorable. Lets not forget the owners made it their business to sack many Liverpool personnel in an attempt (and very successful too ) to
dilute the managers influence over transfers.

I was one of many who praised the owners resolute stance over Suarez ,but to then risk losing him and Champions League qualification by sending Ayre
to Switzerland and Russia respectively, and then expect him to procure a player with only his dick in his hand was always asking for trouble .....Ayre is
a money man and possibly the perfect patsy to ensure the owners can shift the blame in playing this f*cking low ball shite.....He's not a negotiator or
a person who commands any real respect .....If the owners were serious about spending money they would have sent someone who knows his players and
commands reverence,not some mealy mouthed pussy.

When Sky Sports asked the representatives of Basel if Liverpool had submitted a bid they said that Ayre had loitered with intent for 2 months without even
threatening to offer the money they had requested for said player...that for me underlines the owners immediate priorities are securing lucrative sponsorship
deals and not aiding the manager by backing him with the kind of funds  the cuntz throw at any ***** in a baseball cap.

I still can't understand Brendan's persistence to play all 4 of our attacking players (Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez) when it clearly affects the balance in our team. I don't think that the WBA game was as bad as most make of it, but maybe we could have still avoided losing points had we played Allen instead of one of the attackers. I remember a few instances when our defenders had no one to pass the ball to. Gerrard was either too far away or not open enough (not aware enough to play in that position) and Hendo was nowhere to be found. Had we played Allen, someone who knows how to receive the ball from the defense and pass it forward, we might have seen a different game.

The Everton game was great, but did we really expect to see the same kind of performance again? Even then the team was clearly not balanced enough, knowing we had only 40% possession. When we play with 3 midfielders the shape of the team looks much better and we have a lot more control in midfield.

I know that all 4 of those have been great and all of them deserve to start, but some sacrifices have to be made for the good of the team.

Original and secondary BR threads merged.

damjan193 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:20 am wrote:I still can't understand Brendan's persistence to play all 4 of our attacking players (Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez) when it clearly affects the balance in our team. I don't think that the WBA game was as bad as most make of it, but maybe we could have still avoided losing points had we played Allen instead of one of the attackers. I remember a few instances when our defenders had no one to pass the ball to. Gerrard was either too far away or not open enough (not aware enough to play in that position) and Hendo was nowhere to be found. Had we played Allen, someone who knows how to receive the ball from the defense and pass it forward, we might have seen a different game.

The Everton game was great, but did we really expect to see the same kind of performance again? Even then the team was clearly not balanced enough, knowing we had only 40% possession. When we play with 3 midfielders the shape of the team looks much better and we have a lot more control in midfield.

I know that all 4 of those have been great and all of them deserve to start, but some sacrifices have to be made for the good of the team.

Spot on

I don't know where else to post this fun fact so I'll just post it here:

Since the start of the 2008/2009 season we have hit the post and the bar 128 times! That's an average of about 24 times per season. The second team in this category is Arsenal, having hit the post 103 times.

Ben Patrick » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:54 am wrote:

damjan193 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:20 am wrote:I still can't understand Brendan's persistence to play all 4 of our attacking players (Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez) when it clearly affects the balance in our team. I don't think that the WBA game was as bad as most make of it, but maybe we could have still avoided losing points had we played Allen instead of one of the attackers. I remember a few instances when our defenders had no one to pass the ball to. Gerrard was either too far away or not open enough (not aware enough to play in that position) and Hendo was nowhere to be found. Had we played Allen, someone who knows how to receive the ball from the defense and pass it forward, we might have seen a different game.

The Everton game was great, but did we really expect to see the same kind of performance again? Even then the team was clearly not balanced enough, knowing we had only 40% possession. When we play with 3 midfielders the shape of the team looks much better and we have a lot more control in midfield.

I know that all 4 of those have been great and all of them deserve to start, but some sacrifices have to be made for the good of the team.

Spot on

I suggested in another thread Coutinho and Sturridge in attack and a midfield consisting of Sterling on the right, Coutinho on the left with Hendo and Gerrard playing defensively in the middle with Gerrard playing the deeper role. I think it was you Ben and a couple of others who politely suggested I was a few pence short of a quid 

Certainly something didn't work against Villa and until changes were made at half time we were losing. Were the two Villa goals totally down to the attacking formation? I don't think they were. We scored the same number of goals in each half with Villa edging it at half time 2-1. The way we played the last twenty minutes of the game was quite lethargic and certainly cost us.

Imagine my delight however at the Everton result. The I told you so keys were so close to being pressed but I managed to hold back due to their somewhat generous defence !! But it wasn't just all down to their panicky defence. We played with a tempo and a determination that frightened them to death. Gerrard was like his old self and Hendo had a good game.

The West Brom game was a disappointment but I'm not totally convinced that the formation was the reason. Attitude and determination seemed to have been all used up against the bitters. Gerrard and Henderson were very average and that is a key to the success of such an attacking formation. Whilst Flaano is improving all the time and working very hard it is still true to say that our full backs are currently giving us very little going forward. Skrtel and Toure provide virtually nothing going forward. I haven't completely given up on the team that did so well against Everton but they simply cannot just to turn up and expect to win which is what I witnessed against West Brom. If we had been totally on it the game would have been over at half time. I'm still convinced that the real problems are at the back rather than the front. It would also help if Coutinho and Sterling actually hit the back of the net a few times. They contribute a lot but Coutinho does have a tendency to disappear and occasionally make poor decisions.

Devaney I dont think you have read damjans post clearly, or if you have you havent understood it.

He was stating that playing the four attacking players unbalances the side and I agreed.

Against Everton for me was a one off because it was them. Suarez Sturridge Coutinho and Sterling worked harder than they would in other games.
By that I dont just mean they tried harder, they also worked in positions for the team that in other games they wont be as inclined to do.
The system the manager is playing when the four of them play is almost 4-2-4 at times and no matter who you play against if you set up like that you will get exposed.
What happened in the derby is that Sturridge and Suarez had to take it in turns to play on the left with Coutinho filling in in the middle.
Like Stu has said in the Suarez thread we are taking a bit away from both os the players doing this.
It worked a treat in the derby because Everton like to push their full backs on and Stones got caught out a couple of times leaving huge gaps.
Most sides dont play like that and we are just taking one of our better players out of their most dangerous positions.

Ben if it ends up as 4 2 4 then I agree there is a massive problem. I didn't really see that was the case on many occasions.Personally, and it's all about opinions, I think the problems are far more serious at the back than at the front. It is virtually impossible to play excellent football with the current players we have in defence. They leak goals and give you absolutely nothing going forward. If we are going to have a cat in hell's chance of top four then every match has got be approached in the same way as Everton. Almost like a cup final in fact. You say the that C S S S worked harder against Everton than they would have in other games. If your argument is to be accepted then you are suggesting we can't expect them to play the same way against other teams because they won't be inclined to do so? I mentioned that attitude and determination are the key if  we want to succeed. We need them scrapping for their fkg lives in every match and not just against Everton. The four players in question are game changers and that is what we need at the moment.

I think we do need game changers.

But they shouldnt all be on the pitch at the same time as the balance is wrong.
Also then you have the problem of not having a 'game changer' on the bench.

I did say they worked harder against Everton than what they will in a usual fixture. This was our rivals who could have gone above us in a midweek night match.
That was bound to happen and for me papered over the cracks of using a system that wont work more often than not.
Like I said I dont want to see Suarez and Sturridge wide left. They should be getting the ball in areas where they can do most damage.
We hardly looked like scoring against West Brom and in the other games we have used the same sort of gung ho attacking system we have really struggled.
The games are Aston Villa, Bournemouth, Southampton away last season, Spurs at home last season...until we changed system and brought on Henderson for one of the attacking players.
For me either Sterling Coutinho or Sturridge need to be sub for our side to function properly with balance.
I agree that the players should be looking at every game as a cup final attitude wise but obviously there are some games like Everton where you will get more out of everyone.

Ben Patrick » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:21 pm wrote:I think we do need game changers.

But they shouldnt all be on the pitch at the same time as the balance is wrong.
Also then you have the problem of not having a 'game changer' on the bench.

I did say they worked harder against Everton than what they will in a usual fixture. This was our rivals who could have gone above us in a midweek night match.
That was bound to happen and for me papered over the cracks of using a system that wont work more often than not.
Like I said I dont want to see Suarez and Sturridge wide left. They should be getting the ball in areas where they can do most damage.
We hardly looked like scoring against West Brom and in the other games we have used the same sort of gung ho attacking system we have really struggled.
The games are Aston Villa, Bournemouth, Southampton away last season, Spurs at home last season...until we changed system and brought on Henderson for one of the attacking players.
For me either Sterling Coutinho or Sturridge need to be sub for our side to function properly with balance.
I agree that the players should be looking at every game as a cup final attitude wise but obviously there are some games like Everton where you will get more out of everyone.

Spot on assessment mate.

If we play the front four of Coutinho, Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge against Arsenal then I think they'll beat us at Anfield at the weekend.

I also think Sturridge and Sterling are in better form than Coutinho at present so I'd leave him out.  He's a game changer and could still be important for us from the bench.  He could go on to be the one we build this team around in future but he's still developing and not un-droppable at present.

In a perfect world if we had 2 phenomenally athletic midfielders to play behind our front four we'd be one hell of a side but unfortunately the sad fact is that we don't (although I would like to see hendo and a 100% fit joe Allen given a try).
Until we find those midfielders I agree with Ben, by playing four attackers it definitely weakens us in midfield.
Against some sides we may be able to go with the four attackers but arsenal ain't one of them, they will just shred us.
Oddly enough some of our best performances under Rodgers have come when we have been missing star names, the 6-0 thrashing of Newcastle came when Luis was out of the side and the 5-0 at spurs was when both Gerrard and Sturridge were missing, in both of those performances the balance between midfield and attack was perfect though, we had enough hard working players to press the opposition and enough quality players to make our possession count.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:15 pm wrote:Oddly enough some of our best performances under Rodgers have come when we have been missing star names, the 6-0 thrashing of Newcastle came when Luis was out of the side and the 5-0 at spurs was when both Gerrard and Sturridge were missing, in both of those performances the balance between midfield and attack was perfect though, we had enough hard working players to press the opposition and enough quality players to make our possession count.

This is exactly it. Both you and Ben have it right IMO.

Anyway, am I a minority with my opinion on Sturridge and Suarez and their positions? It seems that most of you here believe that Sturridge is the one responsible for the unbalance in our team. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be considered as the one that would make way for another midfielder (only Suarez has immunity), but it appears that most would want exactly him to be the one that would be sacrificed.

Simply couldn't fault Rodgers for our performance yesterday ,because tactics wise it was precise and our lads followed his instructions to the letter.
It also confounded Wenger to the extent  he still had vertigo by the time he got to Lime St. 

When Rodgers first arrived, I, like others was more than skeptical. Clearly the club have done their homework. He has faults of course. But negatives will often mean nothing if the positives overpower them. This is the case as I see it.
Like footballers, or almost any other job I can think of, managers and coaches need a great many skills. A person who has everything is rare. Very rare. So in life we should learn to highlight our skills and use them as a smokescreen to hide the areas we lack. Some might think this is dishonest, but many will see the wisdom in it.
I admire BR because not only does he have a vision, but he so far seems to have the sheer indomitable will to craft that vision and now we see it begin to take fruit. This last season (helped no doubt by the Suarez saga) he has stood tall amongst the more famous names and through fairness and frankness, he now has them firmly in his corner.
He will have said to Suarez "Hey, no need to move on. It's going to happen here". Suarez may have been apprehensive, but when he looks around Anfield now, he will feel massive respect for Brendan. When the crowd cheer Suarez' name, most, including Suarez will be aware that it in fact BR's work and the club and teams work too that has him sitting pretty as PL top scorer. The press will do all they can to make Suarez their new darling. But it's too late for them.
At the beginning of the season I anticipated all of this. Anyone with footballing knowledge would have thought likewise. This could only happen at Anfield. We walk on together with unity and faith.

BR has worked wonder. Hats off to him.

RedAnt » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:49 pm wrote:When Rodgers first arrived, I, like others was more than skeptical. Clearly the club have done their homework. He has faults of course. But negatives will often mean nothing if the positives overpower them. This is the case as I see it.
Like footballers, or almost any other job I can think of, managers and coaches need a great many skills. A person who has everything is rare. Very rare. So in life we should learn to highlight our skills and use them as a smokescreen to hide the areas we lack. Some might think this is dishonest, but many will see the wisdom in it.
I admire BR because not only does he have a vision, but he so far seems to have the sheer indomitable will to craft that vision and now we see it begin to take fruit. This last season (helped no doubt by the Suarez saga) he has stood tall amongst the more famous names and through fairness and frankness, he now has them firmly in his corner.
He will have said to Suarez "Hey, no need to move on. It's going to happen here". Suarez may have been apprehensive, but when he looks around Anfield now, he will feel massive respect for Brendan. When the crowd cheer Suarez' name, most, including Suarez will be aware that it in fact BR's work and the club and teams work too that has him sitting pretty as PL top scorer. The press will do all they can to make Suarez their new darling. But it's too late for them.
At the beginning of the season I anticipated all of this. Anyone with footballing knowledge would have thought likewise. This could only happen at Anfield. We walk on together with unity and faith.

BR has worked wonder. Hats off to him.

Good to have you posting again RedAnt.

What I particularly admire about Rodgers is how he's implemented that "winning mentality" into us. Honestly, whenever I heard him talk about us needing to have that sort of an attitude I always smiled ironically and thought that that's where Rodgers showed his inexperience, as if implementing a winning mentality was that simple. But, to my surprise, he has actually done it. He's made winners out of us. The players look hungry to score and want to win every ball, they play with full confidence and aren't afraid to take on anyone.

The playing style and philosophy is great and all, but implementing the right sort of an attitude in such a short time is certainly not something that anyone can do. The way that he can motivate the players is incredible.