Liverpool FC Forum

Fact: we lost 2 points yesterday because of Brendan's complete tactical good up.

I've said it a few times now and I'll say it again; nobody's saying that Gerrard is a bad player. Even at this age he might still be our best midfielder in terms of ability. The thing is, he doesn't suit the system.

Stu is saying that all Lucas does is he finds a red shirt with his passing and that's it but the thing is that's exactly what we need. They might not be creative passes but with them we keep possession and we keep the pressure on our opponents, two key aspects of the game that must be present at all times in order our system to work.

Gerrard's passing on the other hand is not the same. He's always trying the Hollywood defense splitting through ball that gets the crowd on their feet or the long range pass that made our second goal happen on Saturday. And that's not bad at all, it's a great thing to have. Problem is, you can't do that in the role that BR wants him to play, because half of the time those passes don't come off and we lose possession, we can't make the pressure happen, and we lose the momentum. You need more discipline and tactical awareness in that role, qualities that Gerrard has always lacked. His lack of mobility isn't helping either, so Stevie in the Pirlo role is a definite no for me.

BR ***** it up on Saturday but at least he had the decency to admit it. He was also quick enough to react, took him only a half to see that he's very wrong and pushed Gerrard further forward. So all is forgiven Brendan, as long as you don't do it again and you drop the idea of a pivot Gerrard.

damjan193 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:47 pm wrote:
Stu is saying that all Lucas does is he finds a red shirt with his passing and that's it but the thing is that's exactly what we need. They might not be creative passes but with them we keep possession and we keep the pressure on our opponents, two key aspects of the game that must be present at all times in order our system to work.

No we don't "just need that". We need a midfielder who can pass, tackle, head, run, assist, score, maybe beat a man, turn, play on the counter attack, help us control a game and actually move.

Not one who does NOTHING! game after game.

Stu the Red » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:45 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:47 pm wrote:
Stu is saying that all Lucas does is he finds a red shirt with his passing and that's it but the thing is that's exactly what we need. They might not be creative passes but with them we keep possession and we keep the pressure on our opponents, two key aspects of the game that must be present at all times in order our system to work.

No we don't "just need that". We need a midfielder who can pass, tackle, head, run, assist, score, maybe beat a man, turn, play on the counter attack, help us control a game and actually move.

Not one who does NOTHING! game after game.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think that Lucas is the answer, far from it. I would love to have a midfielder who can do all those things you mentioned but that kind of players don't grow on trees. I'm talking about what we can do with the players at hand, and although BR didn't make it easy on Gerrard with the f*ck up on Saturday, Stevie in the pivot role is not going to work in this system IMO and would rather have Lucas and Allen as double pivots with Henderson in the free role.

Still, Ben makes a good point a few posts above and maybe it won't be so bad once we have three midfielders on the field. We'll just have to wait and see how things go against Everton.

damjan193 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:47 pm wrote:I've said it a few times now and I'll say it again; nobody's saying that Gerrard is a bad player. Even at this age he might still be our best midfielder in terms of ability. The thing is, he doesn't suit the system.

Stu is saying that all Lucas does is he finds a red shirt with his passing and that's it but the thing is that's exactly what we need. They might not be creative passes but with them we keep possession and we keep the pressure on our opponents, two key aspects of the game that must be present at all times in order our system to work.

Gerrard's passing on the other hand is not the same. He's always trying the Hollywood defense splitting through ball that gets the crowd on their feet or the long range pass that made our second goal happen on Saturday. And that's not bad at all, it's a great thing to have. Problem is, you can't do that in the role that BR wants him to play, because half of the time those passes don't come off and we lose possession, we can't make the pressure happen, and we lose the momentum. You need more discipline and tactical awareness in that role, qualities that Gerrard has always lacked. His lack of mobility isn't helping either, so Stevie in the Pirlo role is a definite no for me.

BR ***** it up on Saturday but at least he had the decency to admit it. He was also quick enough to react, took him only a half to see that he's very wrong and pushed Gerrard further forward. So all is forgiven Brendan, as long as you don't do it again and you drop the idea of a pivot Gerrard.

Nail on head 

maypaxvobiscum » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:00 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:47 pm wrote:I've said it a few times now and I'll say it again; nobody's saying that Gerrard is a bad player. Even at this age he might still be our best midfielder in terms of ability. The thing is, he doesn't suit the system.

Stu is saying that all Lucas does is he finds a red shirt with his passing and that's it but the thing is that's exactly what we need. They might not be creative passes but with them we keep possession and we keep the pressure on our opponents, two key aspects of the game that must be present at all times in order our system to work.

Gerrard's passing on the other hand is not the same. He's always trying the Hollywood defense splitting through ball that gets the crowd on their feet or the long range pass that made our second goal happen on Saturday. And that's not bad at all, it's a great thing to have. Problem is, you can't do that in the role that BR wants him to play, because half of the time those passes don't come off and we lose possession, we can't make the pressure happen, and we lose the momentum. You need more discipline and tactical awareness in that role, qualities that Gerrard has always lacked. His lack of mobility isn't helping either, so Stevie in the Pirlo role is a definite no for me.

BR ***** it up on Saturday but at least he had the decency to admit it. He was also quick enough to react, took him only a half to see that he's very wrong and pushed Gerrard further forward. So all is forgiven Brendan, as long as you don't do it again and you drop the idea of a pivot Gerrard.

Nail on head 

Against Villa, Lucas changed the dynamic of the midfield by freeing up Gerrard and allowing him to take his defensive shackles off. His value is clear, he does the job that other cannot do effectively. Is he the best out there - no, is he our best option in that role - yes.

Regarding Gerrard, we successfully played and won with a Gerrard centred midfield earlier this season. I believe his lack of game presence and unusual count of unforced errors are a result of his spell out. I would expect that to change.

Yes. I've always undervalued the importance of Lucas but after the Villa game, it become clear to me that he is an important player in the team. Like you said, not the best out there, but does the job.

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:06 am wrote:Yes. I've always undervalued the importance of Lucas but after the Villa game, it become clear to me that he is an important player in the team. Like you said, not the best out there, but does the job.

Didi and Mascha were very similar. You never totally appreciated what they did until they had gone !! Not that I think Lucas is in their class but he is significantly better than some people give him credit.

devaney » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:24 pm wrote:

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:06 am wrote:Yes. I've always undervalued the importance of Lucas but after the Villa game, it become clear to me that he is an important player in the team. Like you said, not the best out there, but does the job.

Didi and Mascha were very similar. You never totally appreciated what they did until they had gone !! Not that I think Lucas is in their class but he is significantly better than some people give him credit.

Nar, disagree.

Didi could attack and defend, Mascherano was just a bull dog. Mascherano was never as good as some sections of the support would have you believe.

I will eventually merge this with the "official" BR thread BUT I wanted to focus and get some immediate response as to what we all think about Brendan as a coach compared to Brendan as a manager.

First off.

We're up there, seriously challenging for a CL place and there's no doubt that we are playing some of the most attractive,exciting and positive football that we've seen for very many years and credit for that has to go to Brendan.

There's no doubt that, although occasionally tactically found out, as a coach he's given the team the impetus and belief to provide attacking and ultimately entertaining football. As a coach I'd give him 8/10.

However if we turn to the 18+ months that he's been our MANAGER ( i.e responsible for who we sign) his performance is perhaps less than impressive

Out of all the (according to BR) "significant" signings and loan players signed by BR since he arrived at Anfield, only three (Mignolet, Sturridge and Countinho) have become regular starters (cost approx £30 million)

The other signings/ loanee's BR has made include the likes of Allen (£15 million) Borini (£10.5 million) Aspas (£7.5 million) Alberto (£7 million) Illori (£7 million) Sakho (£18 million ?)

All of whom have either been in and out of the side, not featured, sent out on loan or just sold off  !

Which leaves me wondering JUST WHAT IS BR's RECRUITMENT POLICY ?

Whatever it is, a 20- 25% semi success rate in signings isn't good enough, I wouldn't give the fella the money to go to the shop and buy me a newspaper, he might just come back with a comic "

Manager rating 5/10

Whaddya think ?

You fail to take in the factor that he may have his transfer policy dictated to him.

I think if Rodgers was blessed with the type of quality players his football when played to its strengths deserved, then we would still be
challenging at the top of the league . I believe him to be a brilliant coach who could excel with the right financial backing,however when
he's not afforded the funds or the faith to procure the players at the top end of the market  ,I believe he struggles with the securing a
'Bargain' part of the job.......Something if the truth be known many Liverpool managers have found to be a thankless task.

I also believe that having to accommodate Gerrard regularly has been wholly disruptive to the general mindset of the team and the football
Rodgers envisages us playing ,and this in truth has had an unsettling effect on the balance of the team.

I will add,he tends to make some truly awful decisions relating to tactics that has most supporters grinding their respective teeth in frustration.

In summation the time has come for some financial backing now ......over to you Mr Henry.

I can't quite agree with the manner in which the OP has been put out. There's more to the role as a manager than just transfers. Hence to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair as there's so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us know. Having said that, I agree that he's been terrible in the market, though that may be down to the scouts as well.

Take a look at Everton for example, and their loans. Lukaku and Barry have been instrumental in their rise to the top. Moses and Cissokho on the other hand, have been horrid and the quicker they leave the better.

I am very happy with the decision to purchase another #1 despite already having Reina. Considering the uncertainty surrounding Reina's future and how he made no secret of his admiration and desire to play for Barcelona, it was a smart move. Otherwise, we may have been in a similar situation when Torres left on the last day of the transfer window. No complains there, and they did well to take care of the club's interest rather than that of an individual. Mignolet has been having really poor games lately and it will be interesting to see if Reina returns to Liverpool next season to provide some competition as #1.

I'm happy with Toure and Sakho. One brings great experience and leadership while the other is the French team's best defender bar Varane. I'm not too impressed with the failure to address the fullback positions. I thought Cissokho would be a good signing, as he did really well for Porto before. But sadly, he's a complete flop. Good thing that its merely a loan, and not a perm transfer. Should it be made perm though, I suggest Anfield riots. The same with the wings. Sterling has really grown and we have Ibe too but Moses is one cvnting b!tch who should just drop dead. Period.

Which makes it all the more puzzling why Alberto hasn't featured as much. He's always been superb during those short cameos he's had, and though he might not be the old fashioned winger that hugs the sidelines a la Lennon, Sterling, Riera....he's very comfortable on the ball and keep possession well. He should definitely be in the starting 11 more often. I'm not gonna talk much on Assaidi. No idea what that is all about. I'm happy with Joe Allen and I think he's capable of being a really handy player to have in the squad. I've never seen Ilori play and to shell out so much money on a player only to send him on loan, coupled with the refusal to cough up more cash for Salah, just makes me sick. A better idea would have been to purchase Ilori but let him stay at whichever club he was at to get more playing time, before joining us for the 2014/15 season.

In terms of strikers, we're short but we're where we are because of our strikers. We will struggle without SAS. Iago Aspas is clearly not good enough for us. I'm unsure on Borini. He seems to be doing really well at Sunderland and he's definitely got more in his arsenal than Aspas to succeed in the EPL. But once again, to spend so much on Borini only to send him on loan baffles me. It seems we love doing Sh*t like this.

The entire management team needs to re-evaluate their strategy, if they have one. There are so many good players out there would could walk into our first eleven such as Strootman and Flamini but for some odd reason they have been ignored. Make no mistake, Flamini's signing has been just as important as Ozil's for Arsenal. We need more quality in the team and buy spending so much money on players that are eventually sent out on loan, it sends a very poor message to players who may be keen to join us.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:30 pm wrote:I think if Rodgers was blessed with the type of quality players his football when played to its strengths deserved, then we would still be
challenging at the top of the league . I believe him to be a brilliant coach who could excel with the right financial backing,however when
he's not afforded the funds or the faith to procure the players at the top end of the market  ,I believe he struggles with the securing a
'Bargain' part of the job.......Something if the truth be known many Liverpool managers have found to be a thankless task.

I also believe that having to accommodate Gerrard regularly has been wholly disruptive to the general mindset of the team and the football
Rodgers envisages us playing ,and this in truth has had an unsettling effect on the balance of the team.

I will add,he tends to make some truly awful decisions relating to tactics that has most supporters grinding their respective teeth in frustration.

In summation the time has come for some financial backing now ......over to you Mr Henry.

I agree with the bit about Gerrard.

However, money was always available but BR chose to spend it on players only to send them on loan. He's screwing it up big time in the market honestly.

maypaxvobiscum » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:41 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:30 pm wrote:I think if Rodgers was blessed with the type of quality players his football when played to its strengths deserved, then we would still be
challenging at the top of the league . I believe him to be a brilliant coach who could excel with the right financial backing,however when
he's not afforded the funds or the faith to procure the players at the top end of the market  ,I believe he struggles with the securing a
'Bargain' part of the job.......Something if the truth be known many Liverpool managers have found to be a thankless task.

I also believe that having to accommodate Gerrard regularly has been wholly disruptive to the general mindset of the team and the football
Rodgers envisages us playing ,and this in truth has had an unsettling effect on the balance of the team.

I will add,he tends to make some truly awful decisions relating to tactics that has most supporters grinding their respective teeth in frustration.

In summation the time has come for some financial backing now ......over to you Mr Henry.

I agree with the bit about Gerrard.




However, money was always available but BR chose to spend it on players only to send them on loan. He's screwing it up big time in the market honestly.

Rodgers has never been afforded the opportunity to show his strongest hand in transfer negotiations mate ,we constantly play lowball and go in with an
opening and sometimes derisory figure for a player we know full well has a list of suitors just waiting for us to once again royally fuck up.