Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:35 pm wrote:FSG might have given brendan a few bob to spend but you get the sense that he`s having to work within the constraints of this moneyball philosophy malarky.
when he was at swansea and reading he wasnt against bringing experienced pro`s like leroy lita, jobi mcanuff and wayne routledge in.
they were all 27/28 when rodgers signed them.
he`s signed players in their prime in the past, but maybe back then he was just concerned about building a football team and wasnt really bothered about sell on value`s and all that carry on.

maybe there is a certain element of resale value involved but so far he has failed in that aspect. ive always said that the pressure involved in managing a club like swansea is a million miles away from managing us and rodgers is learning this the stubborn way.
swansea are a much better side under laudrup than they were under rodgers. they are in the top half of the table, got a more experienced manager, signed better players than what they lost and are now reaping the rewards with a major final to look forward too and qualification for europe.
clubs are supposed to progress when a new manager comes in and swansea has where we havent.
i dont believe for one minute that he is governed to a strict moneyball philosophy when he had his way with no DOF and said he was no yes man. sure fenway dont want to lose vast amounts of money like they have done with the likes of carroll but they have backed him with over £50 mil so far and are probably happy to only lose 4-5 mil on a player if they arent a success.
if he can dig his heels in on the dof issue then it seems strange that he wouldnt do the same when it comes to players he wants.

mart » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:19 pm wrote:

devaney » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:17 pm wrote:Let's face it he was on his way to winning us the league until it had his famous rant at Sh.itface !!

We scored more goals/game and got more points/game after the famous "rant".

And that still wasn't enough because the bottom line is that Rafa's rant did more to motivate United than it did Liverpool and surprise fkg surprise they went on to win the league !! That's  the reality.

I honestly have no idea where we go from here if Rodgers fails to get this team playing with
any kind of consistency and knocking on the door of 4th position.

We just seem to be in some kind of time loop playing out replaying the same events with
different characters but with exactly the same outcomes and its enough to drive you up
the wall.

Its one thing talking about the long game and being patient but hand on heart has any
Liverpool fan really got the stomach to keep going round again over and over because
frankly I havent and I dont want to wait, and waiting has not worked before nor is it a
guarantee of success.

At this point all we are is an historically big club but we are not a powerful club any longer
and its all over for us now unless someone takes pity on us with their money.

Personally I will never be able to accept it but we are a spent force with no hope of re
living the glory days, I will keep moaning about out but its a waste of energy really, we
are done as a big club, finished, and its shyte.

Brendan is totally lost and needs to go. Sure it's not yet as bad as it was under the Owl´s regime but it's not far off. Had Brendan been born in Italy or some similar place he would not have the support he has. Quite similar to the special treatment local players get I guess.

Hope Rafa comes back.

Was feeling optimistic until the last two games!!!

Was feeling optimistic until the last two games!!!

the situation isnt quite as bad as it looks, rodgers has only been here 7 months and in that short space of time he has put together a starting XI that will give anyone a decent game.
i know we`ve had one or two poor results recently but in all those games we`ve been missing one or more key players.
that wasnt our best side playing against oldham, west brom or zenit, not by a long chalk.
when suarez and sturridge are out on the pitch we look capable of beating anyone, infact if the league started tomorrow i reckon we`d be right in the mix for a top 4 place.
what f##ked us this season was the start, because of the transfer window debacle our squad was so threadbare that we ended up playing not only the likes of sterling and suso but the likes of morgan, yesil and sinclair too.
from the moment FSG pulled the plug on the dempsey deal rodgers was up against it. he knew it too, thats why he f##ked off home in a huff.
this season is a write off but the signs for next season are promising, if we can put out our best XI most weeks we will go close, but the club have got to move heaven and earth to keep our better players at the club this summer, even if it means holding them to their contracts or offering them more money or whatever but we cant afford to have a major rebuilding job on at this stage.

We win a couple of games, draw against arsenal and city and were talking 4th spot and the europa league trophy
We lose to west brom and zenit and its the end of the world
I love being a Red

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:30 pm wrote:the situation isnt quite as bad as it looks, rodgers has only been here 7 months and in that short space of time he has put together a starting XI that will give anyone a decent game.
i know we`ve had one or two poor results recently but in all those games we`ve been missing one or more key players.
that wasnt our best side playing against oldham, west brom or zenit, not by a long chalk.
when suarez and sturridge are out on the pitch we look capable of beating anyone, infact if the league started tomorrow i reckon we`d be right in the mix for a top 4 place.
what f##ked us this season was the start, because of the transfer window debacle our squad was so threadbare that we ended up playing not only the likes of sterling and suso but the likes of morgan, yesil and sinclair too.
from the moment FSG pulled the plug on the dempsey deal rodgers was up against it. he knew it too, thats why he f##ked off home in a huff.
this season is a write off but the signs for next season are promising, if we can put out our best XI most weeks we will go close, but the club have got to move heaven and earth to keep our better players at the club this summer, even if it means holding them to their contracts or offering them more money or whatever but we cant afford to have a major rebuilding job on at this stage.

il admit i dont know who sinclair is but i dont remember him featuring for us at all this season and certainly not in the league. morgan has played only twice and both of them were in europe at the early stages of the competition. yesil likewise only featured twice for us and they were both in the capital cup but neither player has played a single league game.
sterling and suso have featured in plenty of games but thats down to rodgers rating them and because of the exodus of players last summer they were promoted.
the teams we have fielded in the cups have been weakened but thats because fenway dont want them, they want progression in the league and thats what rodgers focus is on. he said before the game last night that the idea was to use a second string to qualify for the later stages which he had done and then go out to win it. personally i think if we were still in with a shout for 4th he would have fielded a team similar to what was used in the early stages.
last night against zenit we fielded
                                                     reina
                johnson           skyrtel             carra         enrique

                        henderson          gerrard         allen

                        downing             suarez            sterling.
sturridge cannot play because he is cup tied so was never an option. agger was left at home and he chose to start allen over lucas so other than that i fail to see how that wasnt close to our best side. you can argue over borini but he was available and rodgers chose not to use him for some reason or another.
against west brom we fielded
                                                     reina
                       johnson          carra           agger     enrique

                        gerrard                 lucas               henderson

                       downing               shelvey              suarez
again sturridge wasnt available through injury this time and other than say play borini in place of shelvey and skyrtel for carra i again fail to see how that wasnt close to the best we can field.
skyrtel and borini were both available for selection in that game but the manager chose not to use them so unless there is a few other players hiding in the background i dont agree that he wasnt fielding the best team possible.
sturridge has been great but is he really the making of this team?.
against oldham yes we did field a weakened team but again because his priorities lie elsewhere.
i am in no way suggesting rodgers gets sacked because i believe that will only take us backwards and do more harm than good but i wont make excuses for him. this year is what it is and that is poor on all fronts and next year has to be different. fwiw i think rodgers is a nice guy but a bullsh!tt€r who is full of himself and he isnt immune to criticism or have excuses made on his behalf.
his handling of certain players has been poor and his methods questionable along with his signings and team selections so therefore i can understand some fans frustrations when we lose important games like the one against west brom.
sure we can blame personal errors for conceeding goals and thats to be expected, especially at the start of the season but surely for those mistakes to constantly be repeated late on in the season isnt acceptable and especially when they cost us vital points and a push for 4th.
fenway shelved there plans for a dof because rodgers didnt want one so i cant believe he would accept players forced on him either just because they suit some moneyball notion. he is a great pr guy but i fail to see at the moment how he is a great manager.

Thommo's perm » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:33 pm wrote:We win a couple of games, draw against arsenal and city and were talking 4th spot and the europa league trophy
We lose to west brom and zenit and its the end of the world
I love being a Red

not the end of the world thommo but potentially the end of our season
i am as devoted to this club as anyone but what is is that makes you think he is any different to any other manager that has come and gone in the last 20 years with a 5 yr plan ?.
i can visit my local any night and listen to several who talk as good a game as he does if not better so i just dont get what all the fuss is about and why so many think he is the saviour of this club when he has nothing to back it up.

it could still work out in the long term for Brendan though this idea that the defence 'won't be making these mistakes in six or twelve months' is just quite unconvincing. If the likes of Agger, Enrique and Johnson are making bad mistakes into their mid-late twenties what's going to change by this time next year?

The problem at the moment remains the consistency issue for which there is no excuse for the likes of the above nor even Suarez in terms of his finishing last night when it mattered. The West Brom game showed up how uninventive we still are against a top eight team at home when they park the bus in front of us. The suspicion remains that Brendan's philosophy is unsuited to Liverpool at the moment as we don't possess the quality of a Barca and also that he comes across as an ideas tactician who is unable to get top teams to deliver.

Ultimately though it will come down probably to what happens next season in terms of Brendan's reign. The second season usually turns out to be the one that determines many managers fate. 00-01 Houllier won the treble. 05-06 Rafa finished third and won the FA Cup. Brendan will presumably be able to bring in more of the type of players he wants during the summer. If those signings turn out to be as good as Sturridge has so far then improvement should follow.

Without greater consistency and an ability to beat the sides around and above us however progression is not going to follow. The decisions that Brendan takes in the summer are likely to prove critical. The owners know we have to be back in the champions league as soon as possible. Wins against one of Spurs, Chelsea or Everton of the games that are left would help, anything less and a mid-table start next season is likely to put greater pressure on the manager.

red till i die!! » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:55 pm wrote:

Thommo's perm » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:33 pm wrote:We win a couple of games, draw against arsenal and city and were talking 4th spot and the europa league trophy
We lose to west brom and zenit and its the end of the world
I love being a Red

not the end of the world thommo but potentially the end of our season
i am as devoted to this club as anyone but what is is that makes you think he is any different to any other manager that has come and gone in the last 20 years with a 5 yr plan ?.
i can visit my local any night and listen to several who talk as good a game as he does if not better so i just dont get what all the fuss is about and why so many think he is the saviour of this club when he has nothing to back it up.

I think youve hit the nail on the head when you say "he is the saviour of our club" Its all doom and gloom and dramatic phrases
Why do we need a "Saviour"? We arent on the brink of catastrophe or just about to fall in an abyss. We have dropped from the top 4 to the top 8 and have been knocked out of the domestic cups. Its happened before and it is not, contrary to some, the end of the world. People need to lower their expectations for a while and accept that we have lost our invincibility (for now) and we may take a couple of seasons to get back amongst the top teams. But to slag Rodgers off at every opportunity and call him inept, incompetent or sh'ite because some players have had awful games is not doing anyone any good.
As Ive said before Shankly took years to get us in the first division and even longer before we became a force in football. This insane impatience is detrimental and and its actually ironic that people who want us to progress are actually holding us back by not getting behind the manager and the team.
Im as frustrated as anyone, but lets chill out for fu'cks sake

Thommo I understand what youre saying and Agree with the majority. But football teams change very quickly. Look at spurs they get a year in the champions league and that money has them set for a few more years.

If we keep missing out on top 4 the likes of Suarez will leave.

Saying that people do go over the top. A win Vs Swansea today and everyone will be all excited again talking of being only 3 points behind Everton and 5 behind Arsenal.

If we look at the run ins i posted on the 'Onwards and Upwards' Thread the best thing we as a club can do is just keep winning and doing our best. Dont deam us as ***** or as a midtable side as we are not that.

We are what we are a very good side who are a little ripe. Im sure if we show progress the likes of Suarez will stay. We just need to be in some kind of European football next year

i`ve said it a few times when we get our best xi on the park we are more than a match for anyone.
the problem for rodgers though is whenever we lose one or two key players (to injury or suspension or whatever) our doctor jekyll team turns into mister hyde.
if we can keep our squad together this summer (especially suarez) and maybe bring in a bit of cover up front so we dont fall to pieces whenever suarez or sturridge is out i think we`ll finish in the top 4 next season.

We win and play well against teams that allow us to play football. As soon as a team plays with a physical spoiler or bully us we will struggle without some sort of physical presence in the middle of the park.

We are soft and we leave our Cb's exposed - half or more of the teams in the prem will punish us for that.