Liverpool FC Forum

Judge wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

Judge wrote:people have a right to opinion ciggy.

No one said they dont, but abusing Rafa, and being made up when we get beat, gloating about it, is not an opinion, its people behaving like @rseholes.

And calling match going reds a gang of hippies is bang out of order and that is not an opinion either, thats being damn right insulting on those match going reds that spend thousands of pounds following liverpool.

agree with you there, but honestly rafa's time is up

we have had the best he's had to offer in 2005, but nothing since.

souness didnt do it, houllier didnt do it, and now rafa

john craig wrote:

Ciggy wrote:dave M wrote.

The flow of negativity that's been streaming from the press, our support and the players over the last few months has led to this being one of my lowest points as a supporter. There's been events at the club that have been far more important and that have caused incomparable levels of sadness but, the way things are at the moment, the nature of our predicament, I've begun to question a lot of things. I feel like my belief in the cause has been a false belief. Not that my support is fradulent but that the cause itself is a lie; what it was supposed to mean to be a Red, the philosophical fabric of our fanbase, our solidarity exposed as a great big, dirty lie.

We've got fans turning on each other, ex players slagging off the manager in the press, current players allegedly doing it, a pair of owners that are in it for themselves getting away with it all whilst we pile into one another. It seems like everyone is in it for their own personal glory. Objectively, we've had lower points than this but we seem to be ripping ourselves apart, quick to assert our opinion, slow to consider the consequences of our collective actions. Our football club feels like it's dying and, if we're honest with ourselves, we can blame Gillett and Hicks as much as we like, but we're guilty in other ways.

Where the 's the solidarity in times of trouble? We're supposed to be different compared to fans of other clubs but we're not, we're just like every other generic, sky generation band of wits who seek quick solutions to difficult problems because they lack the patience and the forethought to consider the implications of their collective demands.

You'll Never Walk Alone? A sentimental lie. It means nothing, it's just a song but, to me, it meant something, I sang the words growing up and I meant them, I still do, but too many people are paying lip service to our past. It's usually the same ones that demand we're successful like we used to be which is quite an irony. We didn't become successful because of some magical event, we earned it, hard work, patience, planning, belief in the plan and the capacity to execute it.

It'll never be like that now, though, because when the path becomes a little bit tough, people their kecks and ask for a better map. When they get the map, they have to begin the journey afresh but, as soon as the new journey becomes a bit difficult, they once again their kecks and ask for a new map, over and over and over they repeat this fruitless process, seeking better, more pleasurable conditions. Rather than attempting to find the courage to walk on through the storm in the hope that the outcome is one worth fighting for, they seek shelter from the storm in a refuge that is worse than the storm they were heading into. Just thought I'd add my little bit of negativity to the problem. blame, stand and fight.

That's all well and good.  And I'm sure this guys speaks from the heart.  But why should fans feel guilty for not accepting what's going on on the pitch?  We have a right to be angry, to be frustrated, and we have a right to vent those frustrations.  The players aren't playing for the manager right now, and that means they're not playing for the shirt either.  Something has to give.

I feel the impending sense of doom at the moment.  Benitez's days are numbered at this club now, I may not be sitting in that dressing room myself but what I saw today and for most of this season tells me that the dressing room has been lost.  There is no way back when that happens.

Today has been the final straw for a lot of fans.  Don't believe you are less of a fan for feeling that.

NANNY RED wrote:

Dalglish wrote:

steviec wrote:the worryin' thig here was that we didn't have one attempt on goal in the second half, were totally outplayed in all areas at HOME!!! SUNness is beginnin to sound right. rafa can't blame lack of funds, he has spent a fortune in the last five years - for what? When you look at some of his signings, Nando excluded, what have they achieved.   
ps It might sound like sour grapes, and I suppose it is, but if I ever see that bas@@rd Arsehavan stick his tongue out or put his digit to his mouth, I'll cut them off and shove them up his a@se

For the record he hasn't spent a fortune and in your response to What For?

Have you forgotten Istanbul ?
Cardiff 2006 ?
The double over United and Chelsea last season ?
The 2 momentous CL semi finals against Chavski ?
Juventus at home and away in 05 ?
Real Madrid home and away last season ?
Beating Barca in the Nou Camp ? (A first for a British club in Europe)
4-4 Draws against Chelsea and Arsenal last season when the quality and endeavour could not be doubled ?

Souness will NEVER sound right.................

  enough said really

1976 ? 1-0 Toshack

You mean beating them for the 2nd time, a first for a British Club. 

Dalglish wrote:By "didn't do it " I assume you mean win the League then ? Because he's won just about everything else whilst he's been here !

Well he's in a good and plentiful company of managers who have tried to manage a Premiership Winning team then as only 5 managers have managed that feat since the Premier League's inception in the early 90's.

I appreciate everyone has their opinion on Rafa and I'm happy to voice mine but those who want him to leave are answering only half the connundrum................

Who exactly would we be able to get in who could be able to lace, nevermind fill his boots ? You are dreaming if you believe Mourinho, Lippi, O'Neil or A.N .Other manager of your preference is going to come in with suddenly deliver the Holy Grail !

I know there are fans who most probably argue that anyone who can put the pride back, instill belief etc..... is sufficient but thats never going to be enough and they know it !

The bottom line is that they (Fans) want to win the League almost above everything else but reacting to what has been an awful season so far by demanding the Boss goes is tantamount to forgetting the next 2 or 3 seasons in terms of mounting any sort of title challenge.

Benitez and LFC haven't become a bad team overnight but the way some fans are reacting leads me to believe they couldn't wait for Benitez to fail. How else do you explain comments banded about how awesome it would be if Benitez gets sacked !

Good post , unfortunately I seem to disagree with almost every line of it mate 

We are Liverpool and for me we should EXPECT to win the league every year, obviously thats not always possible to achieve but as fans we should be able to believe it.

I honestly believe we can get a manager!

I don't believe we would need another five year plan, get the right man in and I think we can be challenging for the title as early as next season. We have got some good players , we just need to get them playing to their optimum rather than going through the motions.

Paisley used to bring a couple of players in every year "to freshen up the team ". IMO a new manager might just freshen up the team enough to get us back on track.

Its no secret that I have long had doubts about Rafa. I also had great doubts about the owners when everyone was telling me it could never happen...... until it DID.

Everyone has a limit to their faith (presumably)I just wonder where your limit is on Rafa.

Missing out on CL ?
2 or three more years without winning anything
Relegation ?
Or is there no limit ?

I think if he can recover our situation over the next few weeks he should be given the rest of this season to prove me and the doubters wrong, but if this freefall continues I think we will HAVE TO start looking for answers elsewhere.

As for who can replace him, I have my own views as to who I would like, but I think most top managers could.

shitonutd78 wrote:ciggy and emerald do u really believe we aint backed rafa? He is losing the players his decisions are baffling i agree with u to a certain extent but rafa's had it easier then souness evans and houllier but reality is we aint progressing anymore so wat shall we do? just to show solidarity  should we keep quiet and let Liverpool become a club thats becoming a ordinary mid table club we are Liverpool we demand to be number 1 u telling me Shanks would have said nothing about the players who are letting the fans down each weekend i travel from london to Watch  liverpool i spend my hard earned money to support the cause but truth is rafa has taken us as far as he can u ask the liverpool fans in Kop or the pubs are we gonna win the league whilst rafa is in charge 90% of them will say no, are they all wrong? Harsh truth is we are well behind the likes of utd and chelsea look at the scum the other night against wolfs they had 15 1st team players out yet won we struggle to beat the likes of sunderland and birmingham if we have torres or gerrard missing wat does that tell u about the manager? We can blame the owners or the lack of money end of the day it all comes back to the manager dont get me wrong i actually like the fella he does love liverpool but so do i but i wont win the prem for them and neither will he

s@int wrote:

Dalglish wrote:By "didn't do it " I assume you mean win the League then ? Because he's won just about everything else whilst he's been here !

Well he's in a good and plentiful company of managers who have tried to manage a Premiership Winning team then as only 5 managers have managed that feat since the Premier League's inception in the early 90's.

I appreciate everyone has their opinion on Rafa and I'm happy to voice mine but those who want him to leave are answering only half the connundrum................

Who exactly would we be able to get in who could be able to lace, nevermind fill his boots ? You are dreaming if you believe Mourinho, Lippi, O'Neil or A.N .Other manager of your preference is going to come in with suddenly deliver the Holy Grail !

I know there are fans who most probably argue that anyone who can put the pride back, instill belief etc..... is sufficient but thats never going to be enough and they know it !

The bottom line is that they (Fans) want to win the League almost above everything else but reacting to what has been an awful season so far by demanding the Boss goes is tantamount to forgetting the next 2 or 3 seasons in terms of mounting any sort of title challenge.

Benitez and LFC haven't become a bad team overnight but the way some fans are reacting leads me to believe they couldn't wait for Benitez to fail. How else do you explain comments banded about how awesome it would be if Benitez gets sacked !

Good post , unfortunately I seem to disagree with almost every line of it mate 

We are Liverpool and for me we should EXPECT to win the league every year, obviously thats not always possible to achieve but as fans we should be able to believe it.

I honestly believe we can get a manager!

I don't believe we would need another five year plan, get the right man in and I think we can be challenging for the title as early as next season. We have got some good players , we just need to get them playing to their optimum rather than going through the motions.

Paisley used to bring a couple of players in every year "to freshen up the team ". IMO a new manager might just freshen up the team enough to get us back on track.

Its no secret that I have long had doubts about Rafa. I also had great doubts about the owners when everyone was telling me it could never happen...... until it DID.

Everyone has a limit to their faith (presumably)I just wonder where your limit is on Rafa.

Missing out on CL ?
2 or three more years without winning anything
Relegation ?
Or is there no limit ?

I think if he can recover our situation over the next few weeks he should be given the rest of this season to prove me and the doubters wrong, but if this freefall continues I think we will HAVE TO start looking for answers elsewhere.

As for who can replace him, I have my own views as to who I would like, but I think most top managers could.

Dalglish wrote:

Judge wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

Judge wrote:people have a right to opinion ciggy.

No one said they dont, but abusing Rafa, and being made up when we get beat, gloating about it, is not an opinion, its people behaving like @rseholes.

And calling match going reds a gang of hippies is bang out of order and that is not an opinion either, thats being damn right insulting on those match going reds that spend thousands of pounds following liverpool.

agree with you there, but honestly rafa's time is up

we have had the best he's had to offer in 2005, but nothing since.

souness didnt do it, houllier didnt do it, and now rafa

By "didn't do it " I assume you mean win the League then ? Because he's won just about everything else whilst he's been here !

Well he's in a good and plentiful company of managers who have tried to manage a Premiership Winning team then as only 5 managers have managed that feat since the Premier League's inception in the early 90's.

I appreciate everyone has their opinion on Rafa and I'm happy to voice mine but those who want him to leave are answering only half the connundrum................

Who exactly would we be able to get in who could be able to lace, nevermind fill his boots ? You are dreaming if you believe Mourinho, Lippi, O'Neil or A.N .Other manager of your preference is going to come in with suddenly deliver the Holy Grail !

I know there are fans who most probably argue that anyone who can put the pride back, instill belief etc..... is sufficient but thats never going to be enough and they know it !

The bottom line is that they (Fans) want to win the League almost above everything else but reacting to what has been an awful season so far by demanding the Boss goes is tantamount to forgetting the next 2 or 3 seasons in terms of mounting any sort of title challenge.

Benitez and LFC haven't become a bad team overnight but the way some fans are reacting leads me to believe they couldn't wait for Benitez to fail. How else do you explain comments banded about how awesome it would be if Benitez gets sacked !

bigmick wrote:When people say we haven't become a poor team overnight, what does that mean. Does that mean we've become a poor team gradually, we always were a poor team, or that in actual fact we are a good team who just can't win football matches?

My money is on the latter. I think we have a good team with some very good players. We are simply massively under-achieving, and for me the buck for that stops with the manager.