Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 am

Dalglish wrote:
steviec wrote:the worryin' thig here was that we didn't have one attempt on goal in the second half, were totally outplayed in all areas at HOME!!! SUNness is beginnin to sound right. rafa can't blame lack of funds, he has spent a fortune in the last five years - for what? When you look at some of his signings, Nando excluded, what have they achieved.
ps It might sound like sour grapes, and I suppose it is, but if I ever see that bas@@rd Arsehavan stick his tongue out or put his digit to his mouth, I'll cut them off and shove them up his a@se

For the record he hasn't spent a fortune and in your response to What For?

Have you forgotten Istanbul ?
Cardiff 2006 ?
The double over United and Chelsea last season ?
The 2 momentous CL semi finals against Chavski ?
Juventus at home and away in 05 ?
Real Madrid home and away last season ?
Beating Barca in the Nou Camp ? (A first for a British club in Europe)
4-4 Draws against Chelsea and Arsenal last season when the quality and endeavour could not be doubled ?

Souness will NEVER sound right.................

enough said really

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:12 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas revealed a furious tirade by Arsene Wenger at half-time had inspired the Gunners to come from behind and condemn Liverpool to a 2-1 defeat at Anfield.

The victory moved Arsenal up to third place in the Premier League - within three points of Manchester United with a game in hand. Fabregas revealed he had never seen Wenger so angry as he was at half-time.

The Spaniard told Sky Sports 1: "The boss screamed. I've never seen him like that before. He was really disappointed in the first half and said we didn't deserve to wear the Arsenal shirt if we played like that. And I think he was right.

"In the second half we turned it round.''

"There is still a long way to go,'' he added. "The Premier League is more open than ever, you can beat any team and I like it that way.''

Defender Thomas Vermaelen explained the turnaround, saying: "We just reacted very well. The first half was really bad but in the second we put pressure on them and saw the result.

"We closed the gap a little bit now and we are back in the race.''

Manager Wenger admitted he had been angry by his side's first-half display but refused to divulge details of what had been said.

"I don't like to talk about that,'' he said. "I'll keep that in the dressing room. They knew it was absolutely needed to win this game and when you lose the 50-50s in big games you don't win.

"It was just to make them conscious the commitment of Liverpool was bigger. I think the first half we were quite happy with 1-0 - it could have been two and the game could have been over. I don't put it down to a lack of desire - there was a fear to lose a big game. You could see that in the first half.

"It showed the team can respond and they are proud.''

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez believes his side's confidence disappeared after Arsenal's second goal but he pledged to keep going. He said: "The own goal changed everything, the confidence changed and we started to make mistakes.

"The first half was really good and we were very pleased. The second changed and they were playing with more confidence and we played with less. We conceded too early and the second goal came too soon after.

"We will keep going. We have another important game on Wednesday, we have some players coming back. Top four is the same target , it's a long way but we need to keep going.''

such great ambitions

Never mind the so-called ambition of Arsenal. It seems like Wenger actually knew or knows, how to motivate a team. What the phuck was Rafa doing while we were being pinned back in our own half in the second half ?? Oh, I'm sure he took a wee note of it in his diary "Must remember to talk about kwalitee chances..."....
In fact, perhaps he needs to lose the rag completely 'cos his current approach isn't working....
Not just him - what about others ON the pitch growing a pair and saying enough is enough.
Stevie G - Captain of Liverpool ? My erse...He should be stripped of it until he shows he deserves it...

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:48 am

Wenger wants to watch his attitude. He was kicking out and moaning at the officials like fuk in the first half but everything seemed ok at the end.

Moaning bas.tardo

by **shanklygates** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:06 am

its about time wenger showed he had some balls, good on him i say.

as for above^^ i cant wait till the day rafa is sacked either.

we have now lost more games this season than STOKE, tells you all you need to know.

liverpool are playing like relegation candidates, 3 wins in 15 games, shocking absolutely shocking, this isnt a blip its a full blown crisis.

by **Owzat** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:10 am

The season proper started with a 1-2 defeat to a North London club, Rafa's 'season starts here' just started with a 1-2 defeat to a North London club!

First half was promising, nice to see that despite all the fans seemingly wanting Kuyt out that he does more in that game than most of the rest, well at least more in the right direction. We could have had a penalty, and decisions didn't seem to go our way much, but we need to score more than one goal if we want to win games and finish fourth (this season, top any other thereafter) Three wins in 15, 15 goals in 15, is no coincidence. Torres should have done better with his clear shot on goal than to hit it straight at the keeper, we were way too nervous second half and while some may claim Johnson was unlucky and Carra's positioning was not great, should Johnson have been where he was running and facing towards goal? I may be one of few, but I think his mistake for the second wasn't so bad, only a great quick footed finish from Arshavin made it look bad. One touch control to cut back inside Johnson and blast it out of any hope of reach inside Reina's near post. Great finish, maybe Johnson had a chance at clearing it, but it was a goal created out of next to nothing by Arshavin.

I hear on various media sources that Lucas is still getting stick bigtime while supposed star players escape any blame. Just typical, Kuyt has scored exactly the same number of goals as Benayoun this season, except half of Benayoun's six goals came in the 6-1 drubbing of Hull whereas Kuyt's are more evenly spread, so it is only for general play that Kuyt gets stick. Does Mascherano get any flak for persistant foulling which doesn't help our cause, it merely exposes our poor defending to more set pieces?

We went from assured first half to twitchy and nervous in the second, Rafa did little to change that and typically brought on subs once the situation had gone from getting bad to behind. Arsenal's defence is as vulnerable as our's, they've conceded 19 goals in the league to our 22. How many times did we exploit that? ONCE. Even pompey, Sunderland, brum, bitters, Celtic, Wolves, Olympiakos, West Ham and Blackburn have managed at least one goal against Arsenal - that includes four of the bottom six ffs, Hull and Bolton haven't played them yet.

So that's our 10th defeat of the season to balance 10 wins, while some may choose to stick behind him I do wish they'd stop trying to excuse our form. Bottom line is we've won only three in the last 15, but we've lost EIGHT games. Any claims of limited funding is laughable bearing in mind well before xmas we've lost twice as many games as we did all of last season - same supposed limited funds, spent near exactly the same amount of money in the summer and the team is all but the same as it was then (Lucas for Alonso, Johnson for Arbeloa aside) Were those 10 defeats all unavoidable? Of course not, we were 1-0 up at half-time in three of the home games we lost 1-2. We didn't score in 90 mins football against Sunderland, we got beat comfortably 1-3 at home against villa and couldn't even beat their newly promoted city rivals brum city.

We've had five good wins this season, 4-0 vs Stoke and Burnley, 6-1 vs Hull and 2-0 vs the mancs and the bitters. If you take into account the expected result before the game, adjusting any result by the quality of opposition ie you expect to beat Burnley at home, you wouldn't rule out margins like 4-0, how many results this season have been better than expected or satisfactory in every aspect? I'd say probably the home win against the mancs, the rest of the results have disappointed (margins aside) 1-0 wins over Leeds and Debrecen were absolute minimum expectations, just about beating West Ham and Bolton likewise, stuffing Hull, Stoke and Burnley were satisfying only in terms of that being the kind of result (3-0 or more) that we should be getting at home against those sides, while beating the bitters is never easy but we should normally beat them.

Where from here? Well our run of games looks winnable, but then haven't previous games we haven't won?

Wigan (h) - drew away last season, only just beat 3-2 at home down to red card
Portsmouth (a) -narrowly beat home and away last season
Wolves (h) - beat only 1-0 at Anfield in their previous Premiership season, drew 1-1 at Molineux
villa (a) - lost at home to them
Reading (a) FAC - won 4-2 in League Cup against Reading, lost there 1-3 in the league though
Tottenham (h) - lost away to them

Looks winnable, but then so did Lyon, villa, Fiorentina, Arsenal, Brum, Citeh at home, Lyon, Sunderland and Blackburn away. If we don't win our next three games and close in on fourth, I suggest the January transfer window is as good a time as any to offload the manager. Give the incoming manager some money, perhaps if Mascherano is on his way out then some of that funding, but those citing reasons not to sack him should consider it could get a lot worse before it gets any better. Not finishing top four on top of not reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League could cost us bigtime - money and players wanting to leave as well as not wanting to come to Anfield being the more obvious two. While we stay as unentertaining as we are, TV could well switch off our broadcasted games which will reduce our widespread appeal as well as revenue. Two dead rubber games in the midweek CL games, ITV chose Arsenal against a poxy Greek side instead of a game at Anfield against Italian opposition, a little surprising given the hype surrounding our European nights of recent years. Had Lyon won in Florence you can bet we'd have been on the box without a second thought. Even if Rafa hasn't been funded as much as some think he should have been, the bottom line is that isn't going to change in a hurry so we can either settle for what we have or ASPIRE to greater things by bringing in a manager who can do better in the current situation. I'd rather give Arsenal £20m to secure Wenger's services, than £20m to Rafa to buy more player(s). Arsene reportedly inspired Arsenal at half time with a serious rant, Rafa seems incapable of inspiration

by **only me** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:40 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas revealed a furious tirade by Arsene Wenger at half-time had inspired the Gunners to come from behind and condemn Liverpool to a 2-1 defeat at Anfield.

The victory moved Arsenal up to third place in the Premier League - within three points of Manchester United with a game in hand. Fabregas revealed he had never seen Wenger so angry as he was at half-time.

The Spaniard told Sky Sports 1: "The boss screamed. I've never seen him like that before. He was really disappointed in the first half and said we didn't deserve to wear the Arsenal shirt if we played like that. And I think he was right.

"In the second half we turned it round.''

"There is still a long way to go,'' he added. "The Premier League is more open than ever, you can beat any team and I like it that way.''

Defender Thomas Vermaelen explained the turnaround, saying: "We just reacted very well. The first half was really bad but in the second we put pressure on them and saw the result.

"We closed the gap a little bit now and we are back in the race.''

Manager Wenger admitted he had been angry by his side's first-half display but refused to divulge details of what had been said.

"I don't like to talk about that,'' he said. "I'll keep that in the dressing room. They knew it was absolutely needed to win this game and when you lose the 50-50s in big games you don't win.

"It was just to make them conscious the commitment of Liverpool was bigger. I think the first half we were quite happy with 1-0 - it could have been two and the game could have been over. I don't put it down to a lack of desire - there was a fear to lose a big game. You could see that in the first half.

"It showed the team can respond and they are proud.''

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez believes his side's confidence disappeared after Arsenal's second goal but he pledged to keep going. He said: "The own goal changed everything, the confidence changed and we started to make mistakes.

"The first half was really good and we were very pleased. The second changed and they were playing with more confidence and we played with less. We conceded too early and the second goal came too soon after.

"We will keep going. We have another important game on Wednesday, we have some players coming back. Top four is the same target , it's a long way but we need to keep going.''

such great ambitions

Rafa should stop looking at results and standings and focus on our team performance - Get the best unit on the field and start playing positive football - results will follow.

Hearing Rafa's after match comments is like drinking battery Acid...He is inspiring and confident as the French army.

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:23 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Judge wrote:did everyone love souness as a manager

would be interesting to know

Whats that got to do with The Rock saying it will be awesome the day Rafa is sacked?

You dont feckin celebrate the manager getting sacked, the likes of him and his ilk are delighted when we get beat, thats not the way liverpool fans act im sorry but its not, and then he goes on to abuse match going reds calling them hippies wtf is that all about?

my point is, we seem to be producing results like in souness days

furthermore, when someone says they want rafa out, some start saying all sorts of things against. people have a right to opinion ciggy.

rafa should be sacked for the poor run we are on, and it doesnt look like ending much soon.

would you rather stick with him, and finish in the bottom half of the table ? no you wouldnt !!

as much as rafa is a good nice man, good nice men dont win titles.

I firmly believe we have reached the maximum rafa can do here, and its time for a change. i will be sorry to see him go, but liverpool fc is bigger than any manager. The club wont die just coz some dont like rafa. a fan is someone who loves the club thru thick and thin, but a fan is not someone who focuses just on the manager, unless he's been hard done by.
this is a results industry, always has been, therefore, for the good of the club the manager has to be sacrificed, its always been like that - no one can change that (thats history)

bring back man to man marking

bring back King Kenny for the managers role

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:13 pm

Ciggy wrote:dave M wrote.

The flow of negativity that's been streaming from the press, our support and the players over the last few months has led to this being one of my lowest points as a supporter. There's been events at the club that have been far more important and that have caused incomparable levels of sadness but, the way things are at the moment, the nature of our predicament, I've begun to question a lot of things. I feel like my belief in the cause has been a false belief. Not that my support is fradulent but that the cause itself is a lie; what it was supposed to mean to be a Red, the philosophical fabric of our fanbase, our solidarity exposed as a great big, dirty lie.

We've got fans turning on each other, ex players slagging off the manager in the press, current players allegedly doing it, a pair of owners that are in it for themselves getting away with it all whilst we pile into one another. It seems like everyone is in it for their own personal glory. Objectively, we've had lower points than this but we seem to be ripping ourselves apart, quick to assert our opinion, slow to consider the consequences of our collective actions. Our football club feels like it's dying and, if we're honest with ourselves, we can blame Gillett and Hicks as much as we like, but we're guilty in other ways.

Where the 's the solidarity in times of trouble? We're supposed to be different compared to fans of other clubs but we're not, we're just like every other generic, sky generation band of wits who seek quick solutions to difficult problems because they lack the patience and the forethought to consider the implications of their collective demands.

You'll Never Walk Alone? A sentimental lie. It means nothing, it's just a song but, to me, it meant something, I sang the words growing up and I meant them, I still do, but too many people are paying lip service to our past. It's usually the same ones that demand we're successful like we used to be which is quite an irony. We didn't become successful because of some magical event, we earned it, hard work, patience, planning, belief in the plan and the capacity to execute it.

It'll never be like that now, though, because when the path becomes a little bit tough, people their kecks and ask for a better map. When they get the map, they have to begin the journey afresh but, as soon as the new journey becomes a bit difficult, they once again their kecks and ask for a new map, over and over and over they repeat this fruitless process, seeking better, more pleasurable conditions. Rather than attempting to find the courage to walk on through the storm in the hope that the outcome is one worth fighting for, they seek shelter from the storm in a refuge that is worse than the storm they were heading into. Just thought I'd add my little bit of negativity to the problem. blame, stand and fight.

Very good post

And cant believe someone says they cant wait for the day a Rafa Sacked thread is started :no

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:56 pm

we shouldnt have that type of thread, but more of a thanks thread

then we can move on and see if someone has the ability to take us a level up, which is what weve been missing.

mind you some of the deadweight in the squad needs purging, and we all have our opinions on that

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:03 pm

Judge wrote:mind you some of the deadweight in the squad needs purging, and we all have our opinions on that

And I'm including Gerrard in that latter group, mate....

by **Festy** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Judge wrote:did everyone love souness as a manager

would be interesting to know

Whats that got to do with The Rock saying it will be awesome the day Rafa is sacked?

You dont feckin celebrate the manager getting sacked, the likes of him and his ilk are delighted when we get beat, thats not the way liverpool fans act im sorry but its not, and then he goes on to abuse match going reds calling them hippies wtf is that all about?

F@ck off Ciggy or remove your tinted glass. Rafa has completely lost the plot, it's for everyone to see. Every team goes through a bad patch sometimes in a season. But if a club of our stature keep playing like a pub team for 15-20 games, then there's definitely something seriously wrong. If if we now somehow manage (which I can't see happening) to finish 4th somehow this season, I'd still like to see Rafa sacked/resign. I have no more faith in him.

....and yes it would be awesome.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:26 pm

Judge wrote:people have a right to opinion ciggy.

No one said they dont, but abusing Rafa, and being made up when we get beat, gloating about it, is not an opinion, its people behaving like @rseholes.

And calling match going reds a gang of hippies is bang out of order and that is not an opinion either, thats being damn right insulting on those match going reds that spend thousands of pounds following liverpool.

by **Judge** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:26 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Judge wrote:people have a right to opinion ciggy.

No one said they dont, but abusing Rafa, and being made up when we get beat, gloating about it, is not an opinion, its people behaving like @rseholes.

And calling match going reds a gang of hippies is bang out of order and that is not an opinion either, thats being damn right insulting on those match going reds that spend thousands of pounds following liverpool.

agree with you there, but honestly rafa's time is up

we have had the best he's had to offer in 2005, but nothing since.

souness didnt do it, houllier didnt do it, and now rafa

by **Waldo** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:01 pm

1st half was excellent yesterday and we could easily have gone in 2-3 up. I thought all over the park we were excellent with mascha and Lucas giving the Arsenal MF no time on the ball (how many times did they give the ball away or pass to our players??).

We looked fooked in the 2nd half and for me it was that tempo in MF that dropped. Mascha took the knock in the 1st half and never recovered and I think that had a major impact on the way we started the 2nd half and one of the key reasons we lost. Really a very very frustrating day/weekend given the results of the teams we are challenging for top 4 with however the signs were there in the 1st half yesterday that we can perform to the high standards we need to in order to make the top 4!!

by **only me** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:20 pm

Waldo wrote:1st half was excellent yesterday and we could easily have gone in 2-3 up. I thought all over the park we were excellent with mascha and Lucas giving the Arsenal MF no time on the ball (how many times did they give the ball away or pass to our players??).

We looked fooked in the 2nd half and for me it was that tempo in MF that dropped. Mascha took the knock in the 1st half and never recovered and I think that had a major impact on the way we started the 2nd half and one of the key reasons we lost. Really a very very frustrating day/weekend given the results of the teams we are challenging for top 4 with however the signs were there in the 1st half yesterday that we can perform to the high standards we need to in order to make the top 4!!

Actuelly first half showed me that it would be a huge task for us finishing top 4 - 1st half we played like crazy guys run all over the place didn't give Arsenal a chance to breath emotional we were insane but....You can reproduce this kinda of burst once is so many games...this is a cup final performance but we need to keep tempo and pace for the long run....This is but impossible to ask the players to replicate such motivation in every single games espciallu low profile ones...And this is where skill/Talent come to play and we lack in that department compared to our rivals...As long as we lack the talent in MF and lack flexibility and judgment with our Manager...Pure effort and motiviation wouldn't suffice.

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