Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

DEFENCE, DEFENCE, DEFENCE...and don't tell me to stay calm because this is just early July, judging by all the players that we are getting in (Lovren aside but I can see another Moreno situation happening all over again where we walk away from our main target for small valuation difference but willing to sell our biggest asset at a big discount?) already. I would hoped that we are linked with another one or two more defensive players seeing that was our biggest weakness last season.

Micah Richards & Alderweireld have been mentioned and I sure as hell would not pay 20+ million for Lovren, Mats Hummels maybe!

Having so much money to spend and not addressing our defence would be a crime.

I think one of the big elephants in the room that we will have to address this season is Gerrards role. Yes our defence shipped in 50 goals but no team defends with just 4 players, defending is done as a team and IMO at times last season our midfield went AWOL and left our back 4 badly exposed.
Until we start defending as a unit you can bring anyone you like in IMO but it won't make that much difference.
As we saw in the World Cup Gerrard just doesn't have the awareness or the positional sense of a natural DM, he is too keen to retreat to the edge of our area which in turn just invites pressure onto us. The best DM's engage the opposition high up the pitch, if you look at a highlight reel of Lucas when he was at his pre injury best most of his interceptions and tackles took place 10 yards either side of the halfway line, not on the edge of our area.
All Gerrards best work as a DM happens in our box, and it's usually in the form of blocking shots or cutting out crosses at the near post, he almost plays as an auxiliary CB not a DM.
It's very rare that you see him anticipating and intercepting a pass or nicking the ball off someone's toe in the middle of the park.

[supersub]

DEFENCE, DEFENCE, DEFENCE...and don't tell me to stay calm because this is just early July, judging by all the players that we are getting in (Lovren aside but I can see another Moreno situation happening all over again where we walk away from our main target for small valuation difference but willing to sell our biggest asset at a big discount?) already. I would hoped that we are linked with another one or two more defensive players seeing that was our biggest weakness last season.

Micah Richards & Alderweireld have been mentioned and I sure as hell would not pay 20+ million for Lovren, Mats Hummels maybe!

Having so much money to spend and not addressing our defence would be a crime.

I think one of the big elephants in the room that we will have to address this season is Gerrards role. Yes our defence shipped in 50 goals but no team defends with just 4 players, defending is done as a team and IMO at times last season our midfield went AWOL and left our back 4 badly exposed.
Until we start defending as a unit you can bring anyone you like in IMO but it won't make that much difference.
As we saw in the World Cup Gerrard just doesn't have the awareness or the positional sense of a natural DM, he is too keen to retreat to the edge of our area which in turn just invites pressure onto us. The best DM's engage the opposition high up the pitch, if you look at a highlight reel of Lucas when he was at his pre injury best most of his interceptions and tackles took place 10 yards either side of the halfway line, not on the edge of our area.
All Gerrards best work as a DM happens in our box, and it's usually in the form of blocking shots or cutting out crosses at the near post, he almost plays as an auxiliary CB not a DM.
It's very rare that you see him anticipating and intercepting a pass or nicking the ball off someone's toe in the middle of the park.

Some of us can see that, others are still to remove their heads from the sand

[red till i die!!]

the guy with his head deepest in the sand just so happens to be our manager    as long as gerrard wants to play he'l be picked.
it isnt all bad though as stevie still has quality performances in him but just not every week, hopefully this can lad can alleviate some of the burden and give rodgers food for thought.

[RED Est.1985]

Think thats a tad unfair on Gerrard.

Sure he hasn't got the legs but his brain means he can keep up with Prem quality midfielders. Once he got established in the DM role he performed extremely well for us last season and with Henderson and Allen alongside him our midfield was pretty bob on last year.

A LOT of our goals came from silly mistakes in the bad four last year so its quite harsh to put the blame on the midfielders - especially Stevie.

[parchpea]

Rodgers is top class and few would turn him down but they all have their weakness
and my fear is his is defensive players.

Everyone we are linked with in attacking areas or sign is a thumbs up from most but at the
back we are all shaking our heads.

Seems he has this Spanish mentality where by he will only use a small percentage of his
budget on defenders to boot it away with all the cash bunged on forward players to please
himself and the crowd.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Think thats a tad unfair on Gerrard.

Sure he hasn't got the legs but his brain means he can keep up with Prem quality midfielders. Once he got established in the DM role he performed extremely well for us last season and with Henderson and Allen alongside him our midfield was pretty bob on last year.

A LOT of our goals came from silly mistakes in the bad four last year so its quite harsh to put the blame on the midfielders - especially Stevie.

I don't think he ever really got to grips with the defensive aspect of the DM role mate, he was okay when he was actually on the ball and spraying passes about but there's more to the role than that. As a DM his primary responsibility is to protect the back four and you only have to look at our goals against column to see how that worked out.
Even in a lot of games that we won we often found ourselves pushed back to the edge of our box unable to get out and defending for our lives. Once Gerrard got tired around the hour mark we lost any sort of control we had over matches.
Plus having someone as unathletic as him in a 3 man midfield asks an awful lot of Hendo and Allen, they were having to run a half marathon every game just to keep us on an even keel.
I think at 34 he's at the very top end in terms of age for a CM especially in a fast paced all action league like the prem, all his peers like Lampard, Scholes and Giggs etc were bit part players by his age.
A lot of our most impressive performances (Spurs away, City away etc) were when he was out of the team so I'm not sure we'd actually lose that much by benching him.
It's a big call to drop such a club legend and even Bill Shankly found it tough to drop his 60's stars but the truth is we have to move on

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Rodgers is top class and few would turn him down but they all have their weakness
and my fear is his is defensive players.

Everyone we are linked with in attacking areas or sign is a thumbs up from most but at the
back we are all shaking our heads.

Seems he has this Spanish mentality where by he will only use a small percentage of his
budget on defenders to boot it away with all the cash bunged on forward players to please
himself and the crowd.

We brought in 3 centre halves last summer mate and conceded 50 goals, last season was the first time we've conceded that many goals in a 38 game season since the First World War.
Here we are 12 months later on the verge of signing another CB (who's no better than the players we already have at the club) for £20m. That will be near £50m spent on central defenders in a calendar year and we still won't have sorted the problem.
We need to start defending as a team and we need to sort our transfer policy out too.

[parchpea]

Rodgers is top class and few would turn him down but they all have their weakness
and my fear is his is defensive players.

Everyone we are linked with in attacking areas or sign is a thumbs up from most but at the
back we are all shaking our heads.

Seems he has this Spanish mentality where by he will only use a small percentage of his
budget on defenders to boot it away with all the cash bunged on forward players to please
himself and the crowd.

We brought in 3 centre halves last summer mate and conceded 50 goals, last season was the first time we've conceded that many goals in a 38 game season since the First World War.
Here we are 12 months later on the verge of signing another CB (who's no better than the players we already have at the club) for £20m. That will be near £50m spent on central defenders in a calendar year and we still won't have sorted the problem.
We need to start defending as a team and we need to sort our transfer policy out too.

I think we are in agreement to a degree but then again I love the approach, attacking football at all costs.

Totally with you over Lovren though but from my experience class managers make boys like us look stupid
and perhaps Rodgers will have us all eating our words.

Holding midfield is a massive help to any defence but whether Emre Can is the guy I have no idea.

[woof woof !]

Think thats a tad unfair on Gerrard.

Sure he hasn't got the legs but his brain means he can keep up with Prem quality midfielders. Once he got established in the DM role he performed extremely well for us last season and with Henderson and Allen alongside him our midfield was pretty bob on last year.

A LOT of our goals came from silly mistakes in the bad four last year so its quite harsh to put the blame on the midfielders - especially Stevie.

I don't think he ever really got to grips with the defensive aspect of the DM role mate, he was okay when he was actually on the ball and spraying passes about but there's more to the role than that. As a DM his primary responsibility is to protect the back four and you only have to look at our goals against column to see how that worked out.

Thing is though Yakka, I've never heard Brendan describing Gerrards role as that of what we'd label as a traditional DM with a "prime responsibility to protect the back four". I have though heard him describe it (enthusiastically) as a "quarter back" role. Maybe Brendans' been spending too much time watching NFL but it does seem his vision for Gerrard was as a deep lying playmaker and in his enthusiasm perhaps has overlooked the defensive and athletic qualities the default position on the field  requires.

In addition you also have to consider the quality (or lack of it) shown by the defensive "unit" that surrounded Gerrard. Last seasons goals against tally imo wasn't just a case of Gerrard failing to protect the back four.

[stmichael]

I don't get the link with Bony at all even though I rate him. He's ideal in an attack with a clear focal point. That's not how we play and even if we do want to play that way we've brought Lambert for that. £20m is a lot to pay for a guy who isn't going to be guaranteed a place in the side. Shifting Sturridge wide to accommodate Bony would be madness as I can't see us playing two upfront unless we play three at the back.

At the end of the day I just want players that fit Brendan Rodgers' way of playing. I couldn't give a monkeys if they cost £10m or £40m. Also, fans need to stop going on about "replacing Suarez". Replacing him is a fools errand, unless you get Bale, Ronaldo or Messi. I reckon Suarez's output will be divided around other roles in the team and we will look to shore up the defence to win games 2-0 instead of 6-3 every week.

[damjan193]

I don't get the link with Bony at all even though I rate him. He's ideal in an attack with a clear focal point. That's not how we play and even if we do want to play that way we've brought Lambert for that. £20m is a lot to pay for a guy who isn't going to be guaranteed a place in the side. Shifting Sturridge wide to accommodate Bony would be madness as I can't see us playing two upfront unless we play three at the back.

At the end of the day I just want players that fit Brendan Rodgers' way of playing. I couldn't give a monkeys if they cost £10m or £40m. Also, fans need to stop going on about "replacing Suarez". Replacing him is a fools errand, unless you get Bale, Ronaldo or Messi. I reckon Suarez's output will be divided around other roles in the team and we will look to shore up the defence to win games 2-0 instead of 6-3 every week.

Agreed with everything, especially the highlighted part. We maybe haven't signed famous names but we've signed good players that fit our playing style and philosophy. It's not like we're signing another Aspas or Alberto either. People don't know what they're talking about if they think that the likes of Lallana are bad players.

Also, some posters are acting as if players such as Costa or Sanchez can't possible fail in this league.

[stmichael]

I don't get the link with Bony at all even though I rate him. He's ideal in an attack with a clear focal point. That's not how we play and even if we do want to play that way we've brought Lambert for that. £20m is a lot to pay for a guy who isn't going to be guaranteed a place in the side. Shifting Sturridge wide to accommodate Bony would be madness as I can't see us playing two upfront unless we play three at the back.

At the end of the day I just want players that fit Brendan Rodgers' way of playing. I couldn't give a monkeys if they cost £10m or £40m. Also, fans need to stop going on about "replacing Suarez". Replacing him is a fools errand, unless you get Bale, Ronaldo or Messi. I reckon Suarez's output will be divided around other roles in the team and we will look to shore up the defence to win games 2-0 instead of 6-3 every week.

Agreed with everything, especially the highlighted part. We maybe haven't signed famous names but we've signed good players that fit our playing style and philosophy. It's not like we're signing another Aspas or Alberto either. People don't know what they're talking about if they think that the likes of Lallana are bad players.

Also, some posters are acting as if players such as Costa or Sanchez can't possible fail in this league.

I was making this point on Twitter to the reactionary negative morons who are bemoaning the fact that we haven't already been linked with what they perceive as "marquee signings". There's no guarantee that these perceived marquee signings will be a success like you say. Ozil was bang average for most of last season at Arsenal. Chelsea have brought several who have flopped. I don't see Fabregas pulling down any trees there either as he's never a Mourinho type of player.

We're 11 days into the window and there's still 7 weeks left to bring players in ffs.

[woof woof !]

There's no guarantee that these perceived marquee signings will be a success like you say. Ozil was bang average for most of last season at Arsenal. Chelsea have brought several who have flopped. I don't see Fabregas pulling down any trees there either as he's never a Mourinho type of player.

We're 11 days into the window and there's still 7 weeks left to bring players in ffs.

Agree with your sentiment St Mike BUT if I had the money rather than settle for a couple of Skodas' (one to get me around and one as back up in case the first one breaks down) I'd seriously be looking to buy a Ferrari, even one that hadn't driven on UK roads .



p.s. After one season bedding in, I expect we'll see a more effective Ozil in the upcoming season.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

A lot of fans have got serious reservations about our transfer committee's ability to sign the right players though.
We spent £50m last summer on Mingolet, Sakho, Aspas, Alberto and Ilorri (and brought Moses and Cissokho in on loan).
The summer before that we spent £30m+ on Allen, Borini, Assaidi and Yesil (and brought Sahin in on loan)
Of that £80m+ spent all we have to show is a shaky keeper, a decent back up midfielder (Allen) and a CB that the jury is still out on (Sakho).
When we are being seriously linked with players like Bertrand, Davies, Bony and Lovren and given our recent history in the transfer market you can't blame fans for being concerned.
I mean last season Everton got Lukaku and Delofeu on loan and we got Moses and Cissokho. That just says everything.

[woof woof !]

A lot of fans have got serious reservations about our transfer committee's ability to sign the right players though.
We spent £50m last summer on Mingolet, Sakho, Aspas, Alberto and Ilorri (and brought Moses and Cissokho in on loan).
The summer before that we spent £30m+ on Allen, Borini, Assaidi and Yesil (and brought Sahin in on loan)
Of that £80m+ spent all we have to show is a shaky keeper, a decent back up midfielder (Allen) and a CB that the jury is still out on (Sakho).
When we are being seriously linked with players like Bertrand, Davies, Bony and Lovren and given our recent history in the transfer market you can't blame fans for being concerned.
I mean last season Everton got Lukaku and Delofeu on loan and we got Moses and Cissokho. That just says everything.

      

We've added numbers to the squad but don't see that we've (so far) significantly improved our quality.