Liverpool FC Forum

[laza]

Cant disagree too much with assessment though I haven't given up on Allen just yet

For me Mignolet is even a better signing compared to Reina of the last couple of seasons

Sahko I will defend the price tag considering Carra was gone, Skrtel inconsistency and Agger can end up on the physio table in blink of an eye.
He hasn't lived up to price tag yet but still early days for me

Totally agree on the Suso loan

[Red Focus]

Losing DS for 8 weeks is a huge to our top 4 ambition. Now we only have 1 established striker in Suarez.

Brendan, if you're reading this PLEASE I BEG YOU, sign a quality and clinical striker who can team up with Suarez to grab the goals in the absence of  Sturridge by the end of first week of January AT THE VERY LATEST. This is to limit the unfortunate situation of only having Suarez as lone striker for this one month of December and not carry this forward to end of January when Sturridge returns. Also we need good attacking new signings for left and right backs. If FSG won't fund you with the signings, tell him "Back me or sack me".

[JC_81]

I don't think you can call Rodgers' transfer policy a shambles to be honest.  It's been a mix bag for sure.

I would say Borini, Assaidi and Aspas are true duds.  I think it's a fair point that Sakho hasn't played in a back 4 yet, but granted 17mil looks steep so far.  Llori and Alberto have development left in them and weren't really bought for this season I don't think.  Allen is the one where it could still go either way, I think there's a good little player in there but he's got serious confidence issues.  Playing alongside Lucas (and an ever deeper Gerrard) stifles him and it's no coincidence his best form was at the start of last season when Lucas was injured and he played as the link between defence and midfield. He looks like a fish out of water playing as an advanced or box-box midfielder.

I think people forget that Sturridge has probably doubled and Coutinho perhaps tripled in value from what we paid for them.  Both worth 20mil at least in today's market imo, while Mignolet has at least kept his 10mil value if not added a couple on to that.

People also forget just how bad we were at the start of last season when Rodgers took over.  He's turned us around and we're now genuine top 4 contenders, albeit we still have weaknesses that still need addressed.

Even the top managers, when you look at their transfer success rate it's probably 50% or less that turn out to be 'successful signings'.  Rodgers isn't as bad as some make out.  Lets also not forget he also almost got us Diego Costa (who ultimately didn't want to leave Spain as he was trying to play for them under the citizenship rule at the time), who none of us fancied and who is now ripping up la liga.

[jacdaniel]

To be fair to Rodgers, most of the flops he signed were during his first window as manager.  He had only been in the job a few weeks at the time. 

Assaidi and Borini are both obvious flops.  WTF signings. 

Allen looked good though when we were playing possession football.  Its only since we changed tactics and he got injured that he has looked bad.  Give him until the summer to see if he can raise his game again.  If not, I'd sell him.

Since the first window a lot of his signings have been good.  Sturridge, Coutinho, Toure and Mignolet obviously stand out as good buys.
Sakho needs some games before I could properly judge. 

Moses and Cissokho are only on loan.  We've taken a chance on them because we need cover for positions and don't have the money to sign a player in every position we need cover for.

Alberto and Llori are long term signings.  They weren't signed to play in the first 11 this season.  You have to take a gamble on signing youths with potential sometimes.  They could turn out to be superstars or they could flop badly. 


Also, as somebody pointed out above... we are currently in the "Gamble" market.  We don't have the money and / CL to sign world class proven players.  What we are trying to sign is potential and good players that aren't getting games at their clubs. 

Sturridge:  Wasn't getting games at his club.
Coutinho:  Lots of potential and don't think he was getting many games for Inter.
Sakho:      Not getting for PSG
Alberto:    Potential
Llori:        Potential
Toure:      Not getting games

We are been forced to play a risky strategy in the market were some deals are going to be fantastic and others could fail miserably.

[Stu the Red]

To be fair to Rodgers, most of the flops he signed were during his first window as manager.  He had only been in the job a few weeks at the time. 

Assaidi and Borini are both obvious flops.  WTF signings. 

Allen looked good though when we were playing possession football.  Its only since we changed tactics and he got injured that he has looked bad.  Give him until the summer to see if he can raise his game again.  If not, I'd sell him.

Since the first window a lot of his signings have been good.  Sturridge, Coutinho, Toure and Mignolet obviously stand out as good buys.
Sakho needs some games before I could properly judge. 

Moses and Cissokho are only on loan.  We've taken a chance on them because we need cover for positions and don't have the money to sign a player in every position we need cover for.

Alberto and Llori are long term signings.  They weren't signed to play in the first 11 this season.  You have to take a gamble on signing youths with potential sometimes.  They could turn out to be superstars or they could flop badly. 


Also, as somebody pointed out above... we are currently in the "Gamble" market.  We don't have the money and / CL to sign world class proven players.  What we are trying to sign is potential and good players that aren't getting games at their clubs. 

Sturridge:  Wasn't getting games at his club.
Coutinho:  Lots of potential and don't think he was getting many games for Inter.
Sakho:      Not getting for PSG
Alberto:    Potential
Llori:        Potential
Toure:      Not getting games

We are been forced to play a risky strategy in the market were some deals are going to be fantastic and others could fail miserably.

Thats all well and good. Signing players who "aren't for this season" though? Thats got to be one of the worst stratagies I've ever come across given our current situation. Its all well and good doing that when you're in the champions league every year or you're trying to re structure a winning side. But to do it as a slightly better than mid table team make no sense what so ever.

For the money we spent on Alberto, Sessignon went to West Brom. Thats a lad who'd walk into and improve our team as it is. I'm not saying he's a world beater, he isn't... but he's a good player and thats something we're short of. Lovren moved to Saints for £8,500,000, he's part of one of best defences in the league at present. He's a good centre half, we spent only £1,500,000 less on Illori and a whopping £8,500,000 more on Sahko.

We've spent alot of money on the wrong players for me. Barry was another player who'd have improved our first 11 yet has ended up at Everton, Huddlestone moved aswell for a relatively small fee.

We could have spent so much less money and improved the squad so much more than we did.

As an earlier poster said, we're spending far to much money on players who aren't getting into the team. Its time this stopped. To be quite honest, I was sick of it with Houllier... then the spaniard came in and done the same thing... now Rodgers is at it. I really don't understand this "style" of management.

[Stu the Red]

I don't think you can call Rodgers' transfer policy a shambles to be honest.  It's been a mix bag for sure.

I would say Borini, Assaidi and Aspas are true duds.  I think it's a fair point that Sakho hasn't played in a back 4 yet, but granted 17mil looks steep so far.  Llori and Alberto have development left in them and weren't really bought for this season I don't think.  Allen is the one where it could still go either way, I think there's a good little player in there but he's got serious confidence issues.  Playing alongside Lucas (and an ever deeper Gerrard) stifles him and it's no coincidence his best form was at the start of last season when Lucas was injured and he played as the link between defence and midfield. He looks like a fish out of water playing as an advanced or box-box midfielder.

I think people forget that Sturridge has probably doubled and Coutinho perhaps tripled in value from what we paid for them.  Both worth 20mil at least in today's market imo, while Mignolet has at least kept his 10mil value if not added a couple on to that.

People also forget just how bad we were at the start of last season when Rodgers took over.  He's turned us around and we're now genuine top 4 contenders, albeit we still have weaknesses that still need addressed.

Even the top managers, when you look at their transfer success rate it's probably 50% or less that turn out to be 'successful signings'.  Rodgers isn't as bad as some make out.  Lets also not forget he also almost got us Diego Costa (who ultimately didn't want to leave Spain as he was trying to play for them under the citizenship rule at the time), who none of us fancied and who is now ripping up la liga.

Lets just take stock a minute, you may not call £17,000,000 on a back up centre half a shambles, and you may think £21,000,000 on Aspas, Illori and Alberto is good business but I don't. I'm sorry, but I would have spent that money more wisely myself, so when a manager paid a fortune spunks it up the wall on players who've probably made 5 appearances between them all season questions need to be asked.

Aspas or Sessignon
Sahko or Lovren
Illori or Capoue

Then theres the likes or Eriksen, Caulker (who would be decent back up), Wanyama, Tevez who all moved for more than affordable fees. There are players all throughout the league at smaller clubs we could have signed for lesser money than we spent on some of these unknowns who are far better players and have for more to offer the team.

To be quite honest, the more I think about our transfer policy over the years, the worse it gets.

[Boocity]

To be fair to Rodgers, most of the flops he signed were during his first window as manager.  He had only been in the job a few weeks at the time. 

Assaidi and Borini are both obvious flops.  WTF signings. 

Allen looked good though when we were playing possession football.  Its only since we changed tactics and he got injured that he has looked bad.  Give him until the summer to see if he can raise his game again.  If not, I'd sell him.

Since the first window a lot of his signings have been good.  Sturridge, Coutinho, Toure and Mignolet obviously stand out as good buys.
Sakho needs some games before I could properly judge. 

Moses and Cissokho are only on loan.  We've taken a chance on them because we need cover for positions and don't have the money to sign a player in every position we need cover for.

Alberto and Llori are long term signings.  They weren't signed to play in the first 11 this season.  You have to take a gamble on signing youths with potential sometimes.  They could turn out to be superstars or they could flop badly. 


Also, as somebody pointed out above... we are currently in the "Gamble" market.  We don't have the money and / CL to sign world class proven players.  What we are trying to sign is potential and good players that aren't getting games at their clubs. 

Sturridge:  Wasn't getting games at his club.
Coutinho:  Lots of potential and don't think he was getting many games for Inter.
Sakho:      Not getting for PSG
Alberto:    Potential
Llori:        Potential
Toure:      Not getting games

We are been forced to play a risky strategy in the market were some deals are going to be fantastic and others could fail miserably.

I think that's a pretty good analysis, no club gets every signing right, just look at Spurs so far. My biggest flops are Boring and Aspas so far considering the money we spent on them, Assaidi was worth a punt at that price and I am not writing off Sakho yet.

[LFC1990]

For the life of me Stu the red i cant understand what you are trying to get at.

1stly sessegnon v Aspas. Aspas has been ***** pure and utter ***** but Wba broke their transfer record fee to bring him to WBA he is 29 years of age and isnt a striker.

2ndly Sakho or Lovren you realise lovren turned down chelsea to sign for southampton

finally Capoue v Ilori you can not be writing off a player who hasnt played for us yet.

What you havent mentioned is Coutinho and Sturridge coming for a bargain price considering what they have brought us.

We strengthened with Mignolet and Brought in Toure for free

[Stu the Red]

For the life of me Stu the red i cant understand what you are trying to get at.

1stly sessegnon v Aspas. Aspas has been ***** pure and utter ***** but Wba broke their transfer record fee to bring him to WBA he is 29 years of age and isnt a striker.

2ndly Sakho or Lovren you realise lovren turned down chelsea to sign for southampton

finally Capoue v Ilori you can not be writing off a player who hasnt played for us yet.

What you havent mentioned is Coutinho and Sturridge coming for a bargain price considering what they have brought us.

We strengthened with Mignolet and Brought in Toure for free

Well judging by the posts you've made in the past its easy to see why you can't understand to be quite honest.

Sessignon broke through as a forward and played most of his game for Sunderland as a forward or wide striker. The same positions Aspas has played so far for Liverpool. Clearly, what you're missing is I'm saying Sessignon would be a massive improvement in the wide strikers or support roles on the players we currently have who are quite frankly, rubbish. Aspas, Moses, Sterling or Sessignon... Sessignon also cost over a £2,000,000 less than Aspas and the Moses loan put together. Also, don't give me the age ***** arguement. I don't care if a players 30 or 18, if he's good enough, he's good enough. End of.

So my point on that is simple, why would we sign rubbish players for £2,000,000 more than we could have signed a very decent player for? That clear enough?

Secondly, Lovren cost half of what Sahko cost. He "turned down a half arsed offer from Chelsea in favour of first team football. We could have promised him that... so really don't see where you're going with that one.

Illori hasn't kicked a ball. HOW IS SPENDING £21,000,000 ON PLAYERS who aren't ANYWHERE NEAR THE FIRST TEAM good business? WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON??. Money's tight, that money needs to be spent on players who'll improve the side.

Do you actually believe Alberto is any better than Shelvey?

You clearly never read the opening thread where I clearly stated that I was more than pleased with the purchases of Sturridge, Mignolet, Toure and Coutinho. So do us a favour, next time you're going to post bull shi*... try actually reading the opening thread in the first place instead of trying to make up things to suit your "arguement"!

[LFC1990]

!) Sessegnon doesnt play as a striker or wide role for either Wba or when he was at sunderland. He plays just behind the striker in more of a Coutinho role and out of Sessegnon and Coutinho I know who id rather have.  As to comparing him with Moses i think thats a little harsh on Moses considering his performances havent been bad at all.



2) Aspas scored 12 goals in 36 games for celta vigo thats an average of bang on one in three not a bad return and you can see why the club looked towards him. He hasnt shown it in his Liverpool career and transfers dont always work out.

3) How could we guarantee Lovren first team football when we had agger who we just made vice captain brought in toure and already had Skrtel in there.

So Brendan spent 21 on 3 players not good enough for the first team. Kenny spent 35 on Andy Carroll and 18 on Stewart downing dont forget the 9 or so million spent on Charlie Adam

[red till i die!!]

are people forgetting how many players rodgers has actually signed since his first window 

borini, making up the squad numbers for sunderland.
allen, bench warmer
assaidi, on loan
sahin, riduculous move to pay that for a loan and run him a few months later.
yesil, very young
sturridge, success
coutinho, success
alberto, struggling for game time
aspas, looking like a gamble that explode's in your face
mingy, good keeper but there was no rush to spend that money so quickly.
toure, good signing that needs to be played regular to get the best out of him and to keep him sharp. short term solution though
cissokho, o-m-fooking-g
llori, ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
sakho, looks ropey tbh, but hopefully there is a monster player in there.
moses, an awful lazy player with terrible workrate

thats 15 players in 3 windows with only 2 outfield players and a keeper certain starters.  most of what we are linked with in january (speculation of course) isnt filling me with confidence that he is going to buck this trend either.
the biggest thing that pi$$es me off is that we dont even have anything decent to come off the bench despite throwing over 80million at it.

[Stu the Red]

!) Sessegnon doesnt play as a striker or wide role for either Wba or when he was at sunderland. He plays just behind the striker in more of a Coutinho role and out of Sessegnon and Coutinho I know who id rather have.  As to comparing him with Moses i think thats a little harsh on Moses considering his performances havent been bad at all.



2) Aspas scored 12 goals in 36 games for celta vigo thats an average of bang on one in three not a bad return and you can see why the club looked towards him. He hasnt shown it in his Liverpool career and transfers dont always work out.

3) How could we guarantee Lovren first team football when we had agger who we just made vice captain brought in toure and already had Skrtel in there.

So Brendan spent 21 on 3 players not good enough for the first team. Kenny spent 35 on Andy Carroll and 18 on Stewart downing dont forget the 9 or so million spent on Charlie Adam

What a brilliant post.

Firstly, check your facts. Sessegnon played ALOT of games on the right and left flank at Sunderland and made his name at PSG as a forward before moving to Sunderland. He's played wide in games this season also for West Brom when Brunt or Amilfitano haven't played and they've occassionally play Berahino upto with an Anelka. Its a role he's very comfortable in, some would even say its his natural position. So before you start shouting your mouth out with your "facts" check them. Because I can assure you, you're WRONG!

Secondly, Aspas was a waste of money and is nowhere near the same level of player. What part of that don't you understand? If someone had told me I could have Aspas or Sessegnon I know exactly who I'd have gone for and it wouldn't have been the useless spaniard. Had I seen Aspas play, I wouldn't have ever advocated signing him as he's clearly not upto it. You're making a pathetic excuse yet again. A better player, who plays in the same positions moved to a lesser side, for less money. We can't let things like that happen in our current state.

Thirdly, really good point which unravels your arguement even further. Thanks for that... How could we do the same for Sahko if thats the case? Lovren is a better player who went for less than half the price, so why did we spend £17,000,000 on a player we've just agreed on, isn't good enough to get into our team?

And last, I'm not interested in Dalglish's record anymore, it was quite frankly shocking. But to use that to excuse Rodgers, who is every bit as bad if not worse is again weak. I want us to move forward and learn from mistakes, not keep repeating the ones of the past and then saying "its ok, because the last manager done the same".

[JC_81]

Following on from the above debate... Who would people like us to go for in January?

A quality midfielder should be top of the list.  Pogba from Juve would be a great signing if we could convince him, lots of clubs would be after him but he's reportedly unsettled at Juve.  Let's hope he's mates with Sakho in the French team and he has a word in his ear! Maybe Bender (not the Dortmund one) would be an option too.

Other players I like - maybe Pato would fancy another crack at Europe and the lad Arnautovic at Stoke looks too good for them (apparently had attitude problems at Inter and clashed with Jose, but he's a talent). Doubt he'd leave there after half a season anyway.

Take your pick of the Southampton lads too - although it's Shaw and Lallana in that order I'd look at.  Shaw will be England's number one left back by the next Euros in my opinion.

For an outside shout, what do people think of Rodwell?  Forgotten man at City but looked like he had the makings of a good player at Everton.

Lastly... Jovetic on loan?  Highly unlikely City would do us a favour given we're actually above them in the league now, but he can't be happy with no game time and he could definitely help us.  Definitely a long shot that one.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Following on from the above debate... Who would people like us to go for in January?

There are many great options out there. Tello, Pedro, Sanchez, Dzeko, Cabaye, Dzagoev, Koke, Dembele, Deulofeu....
The important thing is that none of the signings are prospects but players who will walk into the first team.
Hence, Cabaye and Tello should be top priorities.
We do not need players to play second fiddle as we've got too many second rate players anyway especially in midfield.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

at least one quality CM is absolutely critical, if not two.
sahin was a gamble that failed but it`s someone of his profile who we should be targeting because as others have said it`s pointless bringing in more squad fodder and having even more millions sitting on the bench so lets aim high.
alonso, muniain, dembele or even someone like that banega who has apparently gone backwards at valencia (but a change of scenery might help resurrect his career) would be my preferred choices alongside a tried and trusted prem performer like cabaye.
domestically we are up against some of the richest and most powerful clubs on the planet and we arent going to overhaul those clubs by buying `bits and pieces` footballers who spend their liverpool careers on the fringe of the first team, plus who knows a couple of inspired january midfield signings that have the same impact as coutinho and sturridge did last year could help persuade suarez that this club is going somewhere.
tell those scouts of ours to go and have christmas off, this isnt the time for £6m gambles from the Barca B team or the spanish second division, we need proven quality.