The race for FOURTH

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby mart » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:23 pm

heimdall » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:19 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:33 pm wrote:I don't how anyone could be disappointed with the Benitez tenure.


Except of course if someone was hoping we might win the league and not start sliding down the table.


Except ofcourse that we did very well in the league until H&G ***** up the club. Since he left we have actually played worse in the league than his worst season.
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Postby metalhead » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:37 pm

forget 4th place, it will be another mediocre season
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:10 am

We were 4 points from 4th yesterday and full of ourselves saying that a CL place was well in our reach.
Today we are 5 points from 4th and we have become absolute Fu*king sh'ite!
You couldnt make it up!
:laugh:
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:45 am

Thommo's perm » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:10 am wrote:We were 4 points from 4th yesterday and full of ourselves saying that a CL place was well in our reach.
Today we are 5 points from 4th and we have become absolute Fu*king sh'ite!
You couldnt make it up!
:laugh:


I don't understand where this entire 'we can definitely qualify for the CL' nonsense came from, but it had me in stitches when I was reading about it. We are nowhere near good enough to qualify for that competition. There's so much lack of genuine quality and depth in our squad to even be considering that. I think a 6th or 7th place finish this season is the very best we can hope for and I wouldn't be too disheartened by that, that would signal progression.
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Postby bunglemark2 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:15 am

Thommo's perm » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:10 pm wrote:We were 4 points from 4th yesterday and full of ourselves saying that a CL place was well in our reach.
Today we are 5 points from 4th and we have become absolute Fu*king sh'ite!
You couldnt make it up!
:laugh:

Not sure if fourth is even a remote possibility this season. We don't have the nads or the commitment as a team that even the bitters seem to have.
Worst of all though is that after a few decent results when there's even a slim chance of a resurrection, we play like a bunch of wusses today.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:06 pm

The reason some people think we can achieve 4th is that, no matter how we played yesterday, the 8 teams above us are not much better if at all. It makes sense if you look at it like that rather than "we have no chance because were sh'it!" Dont be so quick to put us down because we had a bad day at the office.
Everyone does, so get over it and cut out the doom and gloom and believe that we wont play that bad again
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:57 pm

Thommo's perm » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:06 pm wrote:The reason some people think we can achieve 4th is that, no matter how we played yesterday, the 8 teams above us are not much better if at all. It makes sense if you look at it like that rather than "we have no chance because were sh'it!" Dont be so quick to put us down because we had a bad day at the office.
Everyone does, so get over it and cut out the doom and gloom and believe that we wont play that bad again


I've been saying it all season that we are not going to get 4th. You can't expect a team who has lost some good attacking players in Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi to suddenly go from 8th to 4th. It's just not going to happen.

If this club wants to move places then FSG need to get their act together and back 'their man'.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:19 pm

Not a chance with the current lot. Two wins back to back is the most we've managed all season in the league and we're nearly at the half-way point. I hear people say we're 'only' 5pts off the pace, but that only gives us a chance IF we can significantly up our level of performance and I can't see how that's going to be achieved without significant improvements to the squad by way of new signings. A more sensible selection policy would help, as would a greater emphasis on getting the ball forward more quickly when we're on the counter and greater savvy when we're being countered... plus more decisive play all-round esp from Suarez. You would also hope and possibly expect a degree of 'natural' improvement as the squad plays and trains together more often; the cohesion that ought to bring and the chance for the manager to put into place what he's learned should yield improvements, although this may take time and might not be so apparent in our play.

The question is really whether all the potential for changes in the way the team is managed can make enough of a difference to the way we play to get us fourth. That probably means finishing ahead of ALL of Arsenal, Spurs and the bitters and bear in mind they will all be expecting improvements in their own performances.  In my judgment, while there is surely room for improvement with the current lot, it probably/almost certainly won't be enough to make up for a fundamental lack of ability and experience in key areas of the squad, especially in midfield and attack. We obviously lack strikers and wingers, probably a CM, too, especially the way Allen's performances have dropped off and Gerrard's clearly not got the legs to have the same impact at both ends of the pitch.

We are also, IMO, way too lightweight. The physical aspect of the game in England counts for more than in other leagues and you can't just replace players like Kuyt and Carroll (not saying he's the answer, though IMO he is 100% better than having no other recognised striker as we do), stick in Sterling, Suso, Allen and others and, with players like Gerrard dropping off, expect us to be the kind of robust outfit we need to be to not only cope with but overcome other sides in this respect. Not saying we need big heffers. A player like Alonso was a much stronger player in the tackle than Allen is who tends to get shrugged off all too easily for my liking, and nobody can say that Suso and Sterling, for all their talents, are as good at tracking back and getting stuck in than Kuyt was. We don't need more Kuyts necessarily but players that aren't so incredibly slight, inexperienced but who do have the ability wouldn't go amiss if we want to redress the balance of the squad.

That's why I get slghtly concerned when I hear we're in for players like Walcott and Sturridge as THE solutions this January to our striker problem. Good players, improvements on what we have, sure, but I just wonder whether we would be getting the balance right if we went down that road instead of going for a more rounded option. When I think of the kind of striker that we could do with, it's a player more in the mould of Dzeko or Huntelaar, even Llorente, than some of these supposedly technically gifted types who some say will fit right into the tika taka style of play. My query is why the rest of the team can't do their tika taka thing whilst placing less of a burden on the front man or men, who can instead focus more on hold-up play and sticking the ball in the net? OK, there is no point signing a player unless they complement the team, but there is also no point in sticking rigidly to a way of playing that has insufficient regard for the demands of the league and the need to be effective above all else. I think we're more likely to get the impact we need in the final third if we go for players who make us a more rounded outfit. Those players can of course still fit in to a more possession-oriented style.

The bottom line is that if we are successful we will have had to have played good football. I for one appreciate a range of different styles, which may be played at different times by different teams and at different times by the same team. Above all, though, I like watching us playing in a way that yields results. So let's think about what works in this division. For team's that aspire to be in the top four as a minimum it isn't playing like Stoke, but neither is it playing like we think we're Barcelona without a fraction of the talent to make it work, in a completely different league where it has never been proven to work. I'm not saying Brendan's gone that far, but when you see how toothless we have been in attack, how soft we are at times in defence and midfield, despite dominating possession, and how, for example, the manager has chosen to play Shelvey as a 'false striker', rather than give an actual striker (Ngoo, Yesil surely have to be tested at some point) a chance, I become concerned that we are getting the balance wrong. And that's why our future signings will be so important. Much could depend on how much backing the manager receives from the owners, and on the market, but this decision on how the team should be composed-- and January may well be too early to judge -- more than any amount of tinkering with the current squad will, IMO, determine the success of the manager.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:43 pm

good post lfc2007. good to see your back. agreed with the robustness we lack especially in midfield.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:58 pm

Rogders put his faith in the players, as he always does. They let him, and us down badly yesterday.
I can just about handle getting beat if we try our best and put up a fight. We never even tried and those criticising the young players should really take a realty check. By far our worst performers yesterday were our senior players: Suarez, Gerrard, Johnson, Downing, Reina, Skirtl, Cole, thats well over half of the team, were absolute dogsh'ite. In an ideal world Gerrard would be dropped for a few games, Suarez ordered to stop being so Fu*king wasteful or he will be dropped and Cole and Downing would never wear a Red shirt again
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Postby Doeboy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:11 pm

I've accepted we won't get top 4 this season. Personally think this will be an inconsistent season where we will have some pretty good results combined with some ***** ones and going to lack that consistency and it could be frustrating. BR needs to a mould a squad he can call his own and that is not going to happen overnight. The Commoli/Kenny transfer calamity in 2011 (fact we loaned out our record £35m striker to West Ham says it all really) has set us back and really hurt us. I would be very happy with a top 6 finish and would set us up well for next season provided BR brings in the right players and is able to move on the deadwood
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Postby redno7 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:20 pm

while ever it's still mathematically possible to reach fourth I will believe we can and still remain hopeful. thats my right, it doesn't work for everyone I agree but righting anything off while its still not even halfway through the season is poor.
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Postby killerp » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:53 pm

I think this thread should be renamed the race for SIXTH the way we are going !
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Postby red till i die!! » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:46 am

redno7 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:20 pm wrote:while ever it's still mathematically possible to reach fourth I will believe we can and still remain hopeful. thats my right, it doesn't work for everyone I agree but righting anything off while its still not even halfway through the season is poor.


agreed its never over till its over :nod .
mind you i dont think we will but some shrewd business in the sales and we damn well might give it a good go!!
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Postby LFC1990 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:07 am

I really really dont understand some posters on here. The posts are so fickle. If we win were the best team on the planet if we lose we seem to become the shittest.

Thommo hit the nail on the head the fact we were 4 points off the pace and it was possible and now we are 5 its become impossible.

It gets highlighted every week about not having the squad to compete by the same people. Why dont you wait until Jan is over and then moan there is nothing we can do until then.

By the way if anyone was expecting to go the rest of the season unbeaten then you are mad so i think a couple of people are over reacting a touch
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