Liverpool FC Forum

[red till i die!!]

Half way through the season now and the underperforming players we hope will come good are still underperforming.

Ox isn't cutting it in the team. Plenty of chances and his fitness is good but still playing poorly. Gone well past the point now of potential or any of that other effin malarkey.

Keita isn't cut out for this league at all and neither is Minamino.

Bobby's time should be up as well imo. He looks a shadow of the player he was 2 years ago and its beginning to look like he peaked then. One good season then one really good season but the rest have been average or poor. Given the rise of Jota he hasn't been playing every game but still is way off the pace when he comes on. His passing is shocking and he is far too slow.

I did think during the summer that midfield would be a problem because of the loss of gini. I'm not trying to say results would be different but we lost what would have been our mainstay in midfield. His fitness levels would have guaranteed that.

Still think we need to add more goals to the team so I'd love to see some of the above moved on in favour of an AM who can score and a proper striker.  It would also be pointless as well imo signing kids for the future when klopp won't be here.

[kazza]

I think at full strength we are the best team and can beat anyone (difference between us and city is squad strength) but we have some time bombs approaching the team and since we cannot change them all at the same time so we need to start replacing these players methodically,  and we are behind schedule. We do have some players that haven’t lived up to expectations like Keita as one example (I still think he is a good player, just a little soft) and he is in a crucial place in the team as not only did we lose a reliable midfielder in Gini but Keita at his age is supposed to represent the future. Ox also is not going to carry the team and Hendo is limited and aging, this is without mentioning our three strikers who have both age and contract issues. Five years ago we had a young core and they have all aged obviously, we are no longer a young team. I’d bet ManUre will go about buying a young core of talented players and deviate from their ethos of buying aging superstars, they will become a force again if they do that, and we will probably be in decline if we don’t.

[redshade]

I agree, we need to start snapping younger lads who will form a "new team" for us. Jota has been a great example and will lead the line. I feel we definitely need another to gradually replace Mane.

Same goes with the middle of the pitch. Before Klopp goes I hope we have strong foundations of a new upcoming side.

[redshade]

I doubt the reptilian, fraud Pep fraudiola would have been as successful as Klopp if he managed us. He would've been long gone due to his inability of buying over priced hookers.

[Reg]

Priority replacement: Ox, Keita, Minamino
Within 12 months: Bobby, Origi
12-18 months: Matip/Gomez, Milly
24 months+: Mane, Hendo, Thiago

Coming through as solid first team replacements: Elliot, C. Jones, Moreton maybe, Neco Williams.
Needed: minimum one attacker, 2 midfielders, 1-2 CB.

What riles me is that Ox, Keita, Minamino and good players on good wages but they (in my opinion as I know others do like them) aren't game changers.When Keita scores, no one is more surprised than he is! Minamino is willing but he lacks the passion to play well in the EPL.What I'm saying is for the the money we spend, we could and should expect better.
One other thing, with Klopp entering the last 2 years of his contract, we need a succession plan....... lets not do a ManU....

[woof woof !]

Rebuild ?

OK, every team sooner or later needs a rebuild BUT lets not chuck the baby out with the bath water.

Agreed we have to look forward but our attack is still currently one of the most feared and still have some seasons left in their legs. Defense ? haven't been at their best but again , there's quality there, I see no reason to panic.

MIDFIELD ! 

IMO that's been our weakest area for many a season now and despite the signings and the shuffles it's still, at best , average.

Can you imagine a Gerrard, Alonso and Souness lining up in our current squad ! f*ck ! we'd cane everybody !

Sorry lads, vodka's kicking in 

Rebuild, yeah ok, lets start with some real hard nuts and real creativity in midfield.

[red till i die!!]

Think we have enough young players at the moment around the first team to hold off on signing more for the minute.

I don't necessarily think we need a rebuild either but we do need to move on the players who are failing.  The players I mentioned would be a start.

At what point do we start rebuilding at though ?. Becker and Fab are between 28 and 30. Van Dijk and Matip are 30+. Mane and Salah will be 30 by the time the season is over. Bobby ,Thiago, Hendo all in their 30's.

Jota is a good age so I'd shift Bobby and replace him with a 24/25 yr old as competition for Jota.

Hendo can't play the amount of games he used to anymore and often he doesn't even complete the 90 minutes when playing. Thiago spent a large chunk of last season injured and this year is looking the same. Milner is just too old and the back up in Ox and Keita just isn't good enough. Now is the time to start moving one or two on. Start with the underperforming players and then gradually phase the rest out as each window passes.

We have to realise just how demanding it is too play for Klopp and the toll it takes on players fitness. Based on that I would expect certain players levels dropping over the next season or 2. Some of them are struggling already imo.

[UvS xR4GEx]

I think we desperately need a CM. I've said it previously that the drop off when either Thiago,Hendo or Fab are not playing is massive.

Look at the 6 games we've dropped points this season.. what do all them games have in common?
The answer is Thiago didn't play in any of those games.

The lack of control in that Leicester game was shocking.. it was like watching a ping pong game. The stats might look favourable towards us but watching it live we looked a shambles.

Players who are coming through/bought for the future and will be here in the next 5 years.

Keheller
Trent
Konate
Gomez
Elliott
Jones
Jota
Tsmikas


Alot of players contracts are running out this summer we should be looking at Kessie, Dembele and Mbappe realistically.


Haalands release clause of £67m comes into effect in January..  and I like the look of Vlahovic from Fiorentina. If we get Vlahovic in January I'd be very happy, I think he's the future Lewandowski.

[Penguins]

Let's be honest here. There won't be a rebuild of any kind as long as Klopp is here.
And then the next manager will pick up the pieces when most core players are 30+ with very little resale value.

[kazza]

Liverpool's post-Jurgen Klopp problem: Why they need to start planning now
By Matt Ladson published 6 days ago

Jurgen Klopp will be at Liverpool until 2024 – but to avoid the mistakes Manchester United made after an iconic manager left, they need to have a plan


“I still have three years at Liverpool!” Jurgen Klopp was keen to point out when FourFourTwo asked him last autumn about what he’ll eventually do in his life after football.

“That’s a long, long time actually in football,” he added. “I am fully here, full of energy, I want to go as far as possible.”

Now, six months on and into 2022, the summer of 2024 looks a whole lot closer for Liverpool supporters. A summer when the man who ended the 30-year title drought and brought home European Cup number six is set to depart the club.

Klopp has been consistent that he will walk away when his current contract expires in just over two and a half years - by which time he’ll have been at Liverpool almost nine years, the longest spell of his managerial career.


Speaking more recently, Klopp said: “If I would have known how good this club is, how much we mean to each other, I would have wanted to be here much earlier.”

Some supporters have theorised over a potential ‘sabbatical’ for Klopp, with current assistant Pepijn Lijnders taking the interim reigns, but that seems unlikely.

Regardless, what Klopp and Liverpool must ensure is that the football club is in a strong position when the inevitable does happen. That means long-term planning, something that is currently a hot topic amidst Mo Salah’s contract situation.

As things stand, Liverpool are set to lose their director of football, Michael Edwards, in 2022 (something that is confirmed, with his assistant, Julian Ward, replacing him), their star player in 2023, and their manager in 2024.

Add in that as well as Salah’s contract expiring in 2023 there’s also Sadio Mane, Roberto Firmino, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Naby Keita’s – you can see why supporters would be anxious about the future.

“I’m pretty sure the fans are not as nervous as you are,” Klopp told a journalist recently in relation to Salah’s contract ticking into its final 18 months.

“They [the fans] know the club pretty long and know the people here have been dealing with things for pretty long, so I think there are enough reasons to be positive.”

Such words, though, seem pretty misguided. It would be rather odd for a supporter not to be nervous given the expiring contracts of the front three who put Liverpool back on the European and domestic trophy hunt. Add in that fans also remember – although not as big a loss as Salah would be – both Gini Wijnaldum and Emre Can departing on free transfers after their contracts hit similar impasses. There’s not a lot to reassure fans other than Klopp saying that conversations are “positive.”

Salah’s contract situation also links to Klopp’s future in that any player signing a new deal now knows that Klopp won’t be the manager in two years’ time. It creates a quite uncertain future.


Liverpool's age problem

What Liverpool and Klopp have is an age problem. The age of their squad is on the high side in the Premier League now - not quite ‘Roy Hodgson at West Brom’ style, but the average age of the Liverpool squad is higher than most of their rivals.

In January last year, Klopp named a side with an average age of 29 years and 15 days. The oldest side he’d named as Liverpool manager. Since then he’s named two more older XIs, including in the Champions League group stage away to Atletico Madrid, which was the club’s oldest since 1953.

Take Liverpool’s current perceived ‘Best XI’ of Alisson, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joel Matip, Virgil van Dijk, Andy Robertson, Fabinho, Jordan Henderson, Thiago, Mohamed Salah, Roberto Firmino and Sadio Mane. In the summer of 2024 when Klopp leaves Anfield, every single one of those players will have turned 30 except for Alexander-Arnold.

You could debate Firmino’s place in that XI, with Diogo Jota usurping him this season but much of that has been down to injuries for the Brazilian.

Avoiding Manchester United's late-era Ferguson mistakes

What Klopp must not do is leave an ageing squad that is well past its best – something Alex Ferguson did when he departed Old Trafford in 2013.

Ferguson’s squad somehow won the league title in 2012/13, but it was one built around a core of Patrice Evra (31), Rio Ferdinand (34), Michael Carrick (31), Ryan Giggs (39) and Robin van Persie (29) and added to by Nemanja Vidic (31), Paul Scholes (38) and Dimitar Berbatov (31).

Those younger players in the United squad - Tom Cleverley (23), Johnny Evans (24), Rafael da Silva (22) - didn’t have long careers at the club. Even Wayne Rooney (then 27) was past his best form.

Ferguson left David Moyes a squad well past its best and it set the ball rolling on their nine-year (and counting) title drought, with Ralf Rangnick the seventh manager to attempt the impossible job. Replacing an iconic manager such as Ferguson – or Klopp – is hard enough without being left with an ageing squad.

Young blood

So how does Klopp avoid this? Well, Salah’s contract situation isn’t exactly in his hands, but that would certainly help.

The young blood at Anfield is the likes of Harvey Elliott, Curtis Jones, Jota, Alexander-Arnold, Ibrahima Konate, Joe Gomez and Kostas Tsimikas.

Clearly, there’s a big issue in attack, where all of the front three are out of contract in 18 months’ time and major decisions are needed. Even if Salah were to sign a new deal, does Mane get offered a contract he wants? Is Firmino now seen as being a fringe player and one to allow to leave in 2023? Do you sell one this coming summer to avoid losing them on a free contract?

Liverpool are said to have interest in a host of younger attacking options, namely West Ham’s Jarrod Bowen (25), Porto’s Luis Diaz (25) and Salzburg’s Karim Adeyemi (19). Adding one of those, or any other forward below the age of 25, must be high up on new director of football Julian Ward’s to-do list.

Arguably, though, it’s in midfield where an injection of youth is needed even more, with the injury-prone Thiago turning 31 this season, Henderson 32 this summer, and James Milner now 36 and out of contract after this season. Fabinho turns 30 next year.

Midfield names linked include Dortmund’s Jude Bellingham (18), Monaco’s Aurelien Tchouameni (21) and Gladbach’s Denis Zakaria (25). Acquiring one of those, to add to Elliott and Jones, would go a long way to ensuring Liverpool don’t fall into the same trap Man United did.

Adding a high-quality/high-potential midfielder and forward would also reassure Salah of the club's long-term planning and vision, so you only strengthen your hand there also.

It's clear that Liverpool need to be more active in the summer transfer window than they were last year, for a multitude of reasons. Failing to do so would certainly risk a bleak outlook for life after Klopp

[kazza]

Introducing LIVERPOOL 2.0: Klopp is plotting for life after Salah, Van Dijk and Henderson... Diaz and Jota have already signalled a changing of the guard and with Elliott and Konate waiting in the wings, who else could feature in next generation?
Jurgen Klopp has built a star-studded Liverpool squad since his arrival in 2015
But as the Reds' title-winning stars begin to age the club must look to the future
Klopp has brought in attacking reinforcements with Diogo Jota and Luis Diaz
Meanwhile, Harvey Elliot, Ibrahima Konate and Kostas Tsmikas wait in the wings
But he could make more additions amid links to Gavi and Jude Bellingham


By ISABEL BALDWIN FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 16:50 GMT, 8 February 2022 | UPDATED: 17:01 GMT, 8 February 2022

But as Liverpool's star-studded squad begins to age and the uncertainty over their attacking trident's future at Anfield looms, Klopp must look to the future and the club's next generation to maintain their status as title challengers.


Jurgen Klopp has developed a fearsome front three in Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino but there is a cloud looming over the trio's future with all three currently embroiled in contract negotiations.


The first real sign Klopp was preparing for a changing of the guard of his frontline was the signing of Diogo Jota.

The Reds splashed out £40million for the forward in September 2020 to the mockery of Wolves fans who claimed they had overpaid but he has proven to be a revelation, evening usurping beloved Brazilian Firmino.


The Portugal international has excelled on Merseyside since joining from Wolves, proving his £40million price tag to be worth the value. 

The 25-year-old has been vital for the Reds while they have been without to key members of their attacking machine, Salah and Mane, due to the Africa Cup of Nations.

Jota has scored 15 goals in all competitions this term, including 10 in the Premier League - second only to the top-flight's top scorer Salah, naturally.


Additionally, his two goals in Liverpool's semi-final win over Arsenal to book the Reds' place at Wembley and an opening header in their FA Cup victory over Cardiff were a case in point.

The Reds swoop for Luis Diaz is now the next jigsaw piece in the Liverpool 2.0 puzzle.

Diaz seems likely to pick up Mane's mantle, as  a left winger, he is the perfect substitute for the Senegalese, replicating his ability to cut in from the left.

While Firmino and Mane's next generation counterparts are locked and loaded, the general consensus among fans is that Salah must be kept at all costs. 


Liverpool's Egyptian King has 23 goals in 26 appearances this season and shows no sign of decline.

But even Salah can't play on forever and with his contract dilemma still unresolved, it would be a smart move for Liverpool to have a replacement waiting in the wings.   

The Reds looked to have a target in sights in the January window as they made a move for Fulham's Fabio Carvalho.

The highly-rated 19-year-old has established himself in Fulham's starting XI this season, and has been a revelation for Marco Silva's men, scoring seven goals in 18 Championship appearances.

He plays primarily in an creative midfield role but can also play on either wing and it is not unusual for Klopp to develop players in other roles, take false No 9 Firmino for instance.

Liverpool's move the starlet in January fell through at the last minute but the Merseyside club are still expected to secure his signature with his deal expiring in June.


Liverpool raided the Cottagers for another future starlet in 2019 as they began discreet midfield renovations.

Premier League veteran James Milner looks set to leave at the end of the season, while captain Jordan Henderson is a stalwart in the middle of the park but has already hit 31.

Fabinho and Thiago are likely future first team choices but Liverpool still need to begin reinforcing.


Harvey Elliott dazzled at the start of the season before a horror ankle injury cast him to the sidelines for five months.

However, the 18-year-old has bounced back in magnificent form, marking his return with a goal in Liverpool's 3-1 FA Cup win over Cardiff.

Curtis Jones has stepped up after being forced to be patient at the start of the season, mostly due to Elliott's unexpected impact, but needs to improve his consistency.   

Georginio Wijnaldum was not directly replaced after he was allowed to leave for Paris Saint-Germain at the end of last season.

And the Dutchaman, who made an insane 51 appearances for the Reds last season, has left a gaping void in Klopp's engine room.

Latest links suggest that Liverpool could finally look to replace him as they reportedly eye a swoop for Barcelona wonderkid Gavi and are ready to offer him a deal worth £3m per year - double what Barcelona can afford - while also dangling the incentive of an £8m signing on fee.   

Gavi would inject some much-needed energy into Liverpool’s midfield three and with his contract set to expire in 2023 the Reds could pounce this summer.

Meanwhile, Jude Belligham was a name churning round on the rumour mill with the Reds linked to a move for the Borussia Dortmund star.


Still only 18 years old, Bellingham already has 75 Dortmund appearances to his name and 10 England caps and could be a star for club and country for years to come, key to rejuvenating Liverpool's ageing squad.

While the biggest unknowns lie in midfield, Klopp's defence is already looking pretty future-proof.

For most Liverpool fans the though of life without Anfield colossus Virgil van Dijk is unbearable after the defensive stalwart almost single-handedly salvaged their backline catastrophe and helped them to Premier League and Champions League titles.

However, the Reds have already prepared for the painful, but inevitable, post-Van Dijk era.

After a series of injury blows at the back saw Liverpool's title defence crash and burn last season, Klopp immediately looked to reinforce his backline in the summer transfer window.

Ibrahima Konate was the sole arrival at Anfield last summer and has looked at home in 14 appearances this term.


The Frenchman may not be a regular starter under Klopp so far but the Reds boss  could be taking the gradual and considered approach that he did when introducing Fabinho and Robertson.

Given the time to adjust and grow into life in the Premier League, especially under the guidance of Van Dijk, Konate easily has the potential to become Liverpool's nest defensive leader.

At just 23, homegrown talent Trent Alexander-Arnold is already an Anfield great and with a long career still ahead of him he can become a Liverpool legend.

With the England international holding down the fort at right-back, the position is probably of the least concern to the club but his counterpart is slightly more precarious.

Alexander-Arnold and Andrew Robertson on the left have revolutionised the role of a traditional full-back, charging down the flanks and attacking just as much as defending.


But Robertson is approaching 28, and with his game so reliant on his ability to race the touchline incessantly it is likely he will eventually drop off in a few years.

Liverpool struggled for a decade to find a left back capable to living up to the Anfield standard. 

From Paul Konchesky and Aly Cissokho to Alberto Moreno, Liverpool's options for a dependable left back have been scarce.

So much so, that midfielder Milner was shoehorned into the position for a spell, and while he did a commendable job, it was not a permanent solution.

Then Andrew Robertson came along to answer the Anfield faithful's prayers and the thought of scrambling to find someone of a similar ilk would have been enough to send the fans - and the manager - into frenzy.

Or would have, if not for new kid on the block Kostas Tsimikas waiting in the wings.


The 25-year-old arrived in the summer of 2020 from Olympiacos for £11.7m to provide cover and competition for the star left back but could be the next hero.

Tsimikas took a while to adapt at Liverpool and with Robertson in flying form last season he barely got a look in, making just seven appearances across all competitions.

But he snatched his chance this season, taking centre stage while Robertson has been sidelined and quickly endeared himself to the Kop, earning the title of 'Greek Scouser'. 

If Liverpool's search for a left back was a struggle, it paled in comparison to the nightmare of their goalkeeping horrors.

From Simon Mignolet to Loris Karius, the Reds endured several horrific howlers in goal - note the 2018 Champions League final, if it is not still too painful to remember.

Then Alisson Becker came along with the golden sky at the end of the storm.

The £1million signing from Fluminense impressed for the Under-23s since his arrival last year but picked up an injury in February.

However, he trained alongside Van Dijk in pre-season and has been on the bench for two Premier League games this season.

Klopp and Alisson have already been singing his praises, with the Reds boss saying, via The Guardian: 'Marcelo is an incredible talent, so the next one in line.'

Pitaluga is only 19 years old and with an apparent bright future ahead of him could not only feature in Liverpool 2.0 but could also be the foundation for 3.0.

[kazza]

Feeling like we will have a midfield crisis this year, we really need a proper midfielder that can take the team to another level. Surely there are creative midfielders out there that can put in a shift. Sure we spent a lot on Nunez, we also really need to spend on a midfielder. This year better than next year.

[Eagle]

Feeling like we will have a midfield crisis this year, we really need a proper midfielder that can take the team to another level. Surely there are creative midfielders out there that can put in a shift. Sure we spent a lot on Nunez, we also really need to spend on a midfielder. This year better than next year.

A midfield crisis? We have the same midfielders who took us within 2 results of a unprecedented trophy whitewash and have also added Carvalho.

And here's a response directly from the boss!

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jude-bellingham-liverpool-klopp-breaking-24449420

Jurgen Klopp breaks silence on Jude Bellingham and outlines Liverpool midfield plan

Jurgen Klopp has launched a defence of Liverpool's midfield options as he broke his silence on transfer interest in Jude Bellingham.

The Reds have been linked with a move for the Borussia Dortmund midfielder this summer, despite the Bundesliga side's reported unwillingness to enter into discussions over the England international after offloading star striker Erling Haaland to Manchester City earlier in the transfer window.

Bellingham is a player who has plenty of admirers within Liverpool's recruitment department, including Klopp, but the Reds boss says he doesn't believe the 19-year-old is available this summer. And Klopp thinks his midfield is already well stocked as he talked up the talents of the players he is entrusting to perform in the Liverpool engine room this coming campaign.

"No [we're not looking to buy], I can say that," Klopp said. "I don’t think something will happen in midfield, but you never know. If somebody comes to you and says ‘I want to go...' Nobody came to me yet, but if that happens then we have to talk [about] new [players]. But if the situation stays like it is, then tell me why?

"I don’t understand. I do not understand. People told me about this discussion, but the last thing that would have crossed my mind is that we have to [sign a midfielder].

"I know all these things, that we don’t score enough goals from midfield, this and that, but what do we want? This ‘Golden Cow’ that is producing absolutely everything, milk as well!

"We can go through it. Where do you want to start? So, Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Milner, Keita, Curtis Jones, Harvey Elliott, Fabio Carvalho, Oxlade-Chamberlain. Now you tell me what kind of player are we missing? One who is offensive, 1.95m and arrives into the box to head balls in? OK, apart from that!

"We have three players in the squad who can easily play as a No.6 - Fabinho, of course, but Hendo and Milly played it fine. Creativity? If we bring in a player just for that, we immediately make it more difficult for Harvey, Curtis and Fabio.

"They can all play different positions as well of course, Curtis can play a line higher and Harvey and Fabio can play there too. Fine. We can play a different system as well, where we might only need two midfielders, but then all these guys can play as a No.10 in the new system. So where is the need for a midfielder? The day when somebody comes to me and tells me why exactly."

On Bellingham interest, Klopp added: "He’s not on the market, so that’s the first problem with that player. Well, the only problem with that player!

"Of course [I value the youngsters highly]. And we should not forget that last season, in the first four games, Harvey Elliott was the best player. He was outstanding.

"Then he had a bad injury, came back, [he was] high, low. Normal for a young player, and normal after a long injury. He looks sharp now, he’s back, and like everybody he needs luck.

"Curtis Jones - what a player he is as well. Oxlade-Chamberlain, he played the first part of the season quite a lot, and in January played different positions. Yes, he didn’t play a lot after that but [remember] how good he was.

"Fabio, you look at him and what he did at Fulham. Why should we bring a boy in and tell him he is midfielder number nine. It makes no sense. You have to leave the doors open for the boys. I really don’t understand the discussion.

"We always try to improve, and we can improve internally as well. They can put pressure on the more experienced guys, for sure. By the way, Tyler Morton in training, incredible! He plays as a No.8 now, we don’t force him to play as a controlling No.6 in a Premier League game [like v Spurs]. He’s training as an 8, and it’s like ‘wow, how good is that?!’ He’s still here.

"There’s really a lot of excitement for this situation from our side, and like I say, if you want guarantees then you have to look somewhere else. We work a lot with expectations, and our starting point most of the time is very, very positive."

[kazza]

Without naming them one by one, our midfielders missed quite a few matches through injury. Thiago went through a purple patch but then missed games and form while injured. Other than Fabinho none of the midfielders gave a world class season. I just think a top box to box midfielder is needed to play with Thiago (a sick note) and Fabinho, basically a substitute for Hendo/Ox/Naby that will make the position theirs. The crisis that I’m talking about is more that out of 6/7 midfielders we have two that will start always, if they get injured then we don’t have the same depth to replace them. We never replaced Gini’s reliability.