Liverpool FC Forum

[NANNY RED]

The players should be f#cking ashamed of themselves, but the unfortunate thing is that Rafa is inevitably going to take the fall for this because it's easier to replace him than all the players who have so shamefully let him and us down.

Agreed 100% some of them need a dig

[RUSHIE#9]

I think we should seriously consider something that has been mentioned previously elsewhere. Allow Rafa at least another season but with a new assistant in the form of somebody like Aldo. He understands the club from a fans point of view, he'd be a good link between the players and Rafa with him being an ex player himself  and he may be able to help Rafa on transfers by suggesting whether or not a player will be in the right mold for the english game. Not to mention him being an ex striker helping our forward line find the back of the net more often.

I get the feeling that Rafa's concentration has been diverted from the team and performances not only by the boardroom troubles but by the fact that he seems to have been trying to do everything himself since Pako's departure. 

If as I suspect a change of manager is inevitable then I think that in the current climate it is hard to suggest a realistic front runner. The possible change of owners muddies the waters somewhat as we don't know what kind of man DIC (other than successful) would want.
Mourinho has the experience of winning the Premiership but truthfully how many of us could actually stomach having him in charge of the team after all that has gone on between him and the club in the past. Added to that the comments that Rafa's brand of football is very dull to watch, wasn't that one of the reasons that Roman got rid of Maureen, because he wanted to be entertained more?

As for the suggestion a couple of pages back of Southgate.

IF you weren't joking with that one what kind of special blend have you been smoking??

I would agree with giving Rafa one more year if he took on an assistant. The problem is I don't think he will.

The truth is I don't really want to see him go, I just want him to change some of his methods. As I don't think he is going to change I think he may have to go.

Assistant as in, he has a lot of work and he must share the responsabilities?

or Assistant as in, "he should be told not to rotate and how to play in England".

If it's the latter, you'd rather want  to sáck him, because it's not arrogant to have a certain methodology, every manager has his book. If people want different methods, no assistant are needed, but another manager.

Thats my problem with the whole mess Sabre, I no longer believe Rafa can win the title with his present methods. I think if he could "tone down" some of his methods (maybe with the advice and help of an assistant) maybe he can, I would certainly be willing to give him another season to see.

If he is going to persist with his present methods (and I agree I can't see him changing) then maybe we need to change manager.

It's like you've been reading my mind S@int. 

I too would love to see Rafa stay and adjust his methods. I've said it a couple of times that if Rafa were prepared to admit that the rotation policy in it's current form hasn't and will not work in the english game. I have no problem with him rotating one or two players a game in different areas. However the current rotating of 2/3's of a unit in the team is resulting in the debacle we find ourselves in now.
Like wise with the transfers, if Rafa was willing to agree to a directive from the top saying that he's got so much to spend but has to spend it on just 2 or three players and not half a dozen then we may see more quality players coming in. It may be a simplistic way to put it, but some of Rafa's dealings have been poor to say the least and maybe he needs a directive like this to help him address this.

SABRE -
I think the only way it would work with such stubborn or head strong man like Rafa would be for the assistant to assist Rafa in any areas that Rafa felt was needed - like working with the players on the training pitch a lot closer. As you say help Rafa with the day to day running of the team.
I think that an assistant that understands how the English/Premier league works and that Rafa could bounce ideas off of would be a big asset to Rafa and the team (this is where someone like Aldo may not be the right person) but somebody telling Rafa NOT to rotate and how to set the team up to play in England is basically taking Rafa's job away from him or being a Director of Football. In either case we may as well go the whole hog and just sack Rafa as doing this and not sacking him is just a repeat of the Evans/Houllier experiment, and that worked so well didn't it? 

Everything above may work, it may not; it's all what ifs and in any case I think hell would freeze over before Rafa accepted any conditions or advice being given. As I see it for Rafa to achieve the ultimate goal he needs to accept that he MUST change his ways, sadly I can't see it.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Right I'm getting sick and tired of this. Those who are finding any excuse to blame Benitez need to look at themselves and hang their heads in shame. Also those who are finding any excuse to blame other than Benitez need to do the same thing.

I'm not anti-Benitez and I'm not pro-Benitez. I am however pro-Liverpool Football Club and like it or not, Rafael Benitez is the current manager of Liverpool Football Club. You love the club, I love the club, and another 50 million+ love this club. So for the sake of the club, stop trying to find holes in what's going wrong and get behind Benitez and the boys. Realise that this season is not over, there's still a hugely important Champions League tie tomorrow, as well as a battle for fourth. Whether we agree that we're uncapable of challenging or not, is neither here nor there, we are as a club fighting for fourth this season. We have to accept it and back Benitez, board and players to ensure we get fourth. I'm not very happy with how we're performing of late, and I haven't hid that fact all to well, but again the fact is we're fighting for fourth.

Those who are looking to blame everyone else other than Benitez, this bit is for you. You've got to accept that he's underperforming just as much as certain players and certain board memebers. His constant disrespect for others is something that's really wound me up this season. His rotation and tacitcs have been found out on a far to regular basis. So fair enough you think he's the right man for the job, that's your opinion and one I respect, but just because you think this, there is no reason for you to think he's blameless and everything he does is magical. You have to, as does he, expect him to take the blame.

Now for both "camps" (not a word I like using because we're all unified in our love for this club, but still I'll call it camps.) Everyone on here at some point or other has blamed the owners. Well you're not exactly that different yourselves if you look at it. You blame them for "not backing Benitez" well those of you who sit there complaining about him, you're hardly backing him yourself are you. So where's the difference? Secondly those of you who sit there and complain over lack of money Benitez has been given, well have you helped? Have you forked out the money to attend matches and buy the merchandise? Fair enough one person buying a replica shirt wouldn't afford Javier Mascheranho, but every little helps as Tesco tell us. You going out to buy a Liverpool key ring for £5 helps pay Steven Gerrard's wages. Buying a teddy with a Liverpool badge on it for your grandson for £5 helps pay Jamie Carragher's wages. So if you're going to sit there and complain about the lack of money Benitez is getting, then you go out and give your own money to help the cause, then maybe you'll see why the American's are a little reluctant to give their own money.

So again, I'm not anti or pro Benitez, but I am pro-Liverpool. Whether I think that Benitez is the right man or not, the truth is he is the man in charge right now. As our the yanks, they are in charge right now. Whether we agree with it or not, we have to get behind the entire club and support the entire club. It's the only way the entire club can move in the right direction. If everybody in anyway connected to the club, pull in the same direction, it's the only way we can move on. So I don't expect those of you who dislike the owners or those who dislike Benitez to fall deeply in love with them but at least get behind them and put your faith in them to get it right. That way we can try and move forward.

[tubby]

Shut up mate its an open forum, everyone is entitled to their own "camp".

There is only 1 true candidate imo, and thats Jose Mourinho. Yeah he managed the chavs, yeah he said some nasty things. But he took the preassure of the players and handled it well all by himself. Surehe spent loads of wonga but he still got back to back Premierships not to mention he won big ears at Porto without all the wonga. And if DIC take over are you telling me we wont have to re build the team in a similar manner? Of course we will. Any other foreign manager would be a risk imo.

For all those who would slate that choice please go ahead. But just remember your riteous boos and jeers would be replaced with smiles and cheers within 2 minutes if he transformed this team for the better.

[Bammo]

Shut up mate its an open forum, everyone is entitled to their own "camp".

There is only 1 true candidate imo, and thats Jose Mourinho. Yeah he managed the chavs, yeah he said some nasty things. But he took the preassure of the players and handled it well all by himself. Surehe spent loads of wonga but he still got back to back Premierships not to mention he won big ears at Porto without all the wonga. And if DIC take over are you telling me we wont have to re build the team in a similar manner? Of course we will. Any other foreign manager would be a risk imo.

For all those who would slate that choice please go ahead. But just remember your riteous boos and jeers would be replaced with smiles and cheers within 2 minutes if he transformed this team for the better.

and if rafa won us the CL this year and the Prem next, all the moaners on here would suddenly change their tune.

we're football fans and we're all fickle to some extent 

Most of Liverpool's purchases are below £12m. I think only Cisse and Torres cost more. Assuming Mourinho was given the same budgets as Rafa, here are his transfers at Chelsea as they would be relating to our budget. Hopefully that makes sense, if not, let me know and I'll edit it into English 

Group 1: Squad players (<£5m)

Mateja Kezman PSV Eindhoven £5m
Jiri Jarosik CSKA Moscow £4.83m
Lassana Diarra Le Havre £1m
Scott Sinclair Bristol Rovers £160,000
Michael Ballack Bayern Munich Free
Ben Sahar Hapoel Tev Aviv £320,000
Tal Ben Haim Bolton Free
Claudio Pizarro Bayern Munich Free
Steve Sidwell Reading Free
Juliano Belletti Barcelona £3.7m

Group 2: High budget (£5m-£12m)

Tiago Benfica £8m
Asier Del Horno Athletic Bilbao £8m
Salomon Kalou Feyenoord £8m
Khalid Boulahrouz Hamburg £7m
Ashley Cole Arsenal £5m + Gallas

Group 3: Luxury (£12m+)

Paulo Ferreira Porto £13.2m
Didier Drogba Marseille £24m
Ricardo Carvalho Porto £19.85m
Shaun Wright-Phillips Manchester City £21m
Michael Essien Lyon £24.4m
Andrei Shevchenko AC Milan £30.8m
John Mikel Obi Lyn £16m

Given that if he were at Liverpool he'd get maybe 1 player from Group 3, 2 or 3 players from Group 2 and the rest from Group 1, does his transfer ability match what we need?

Do the Mourinho lovers really think that he could win the league adding players mainly from groups 1 and 2?

[account deleted by request]

Mourinho might get the best out of the players we already have, something Rafa has failed to do consistantly. Most of the players he had at Chelsea were already there when he arrived. He got the players to play to their potential, maybe he could do the same here?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Gary Johnson, two consecutives promotions with Yeovil. Promotion with Bristol City and now they're third in the Championship in their first season in that divison and if they win toninght against Crystal Palace at Ashton Gate, Gary Johnson's Robins go top.

We took a chance on a lower league manager with Shankly, he rebuilt the club into "a bastian of invincibilty"

Bring in Gary Johnson

[Bammo]

Edit: This is responding to Saint. GBJH posted as I was typing

What if he can't?

As you've said to me in the past Saint, it's all ifs and maybes

I posted the transfer info to give people some perspective. (This isn't aimed at you, Saint). There's a growing assumption that Mourinho guarantees league titles and we'd suddenly have a squad of world beaters. It's likely that unless DIC give us a huge transfer fund, whoever is manager will struggle to improve the squad.

Because of this, we need to look at managers that are proven at motivating people well. Maybe it's Rafa, maybe Mourinho, Hiddink, O'Neill or whoever else.

Our squad isn't bad, in fact it's better than most. What we do lack is quality in certain areas (LB, LM, 2nd striker).

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Motivation I won't blame the manager for. Any player who isn't motivated for playing for Liverpool Football Club shouldn't be at this club. But the manager who "loves" this club, should be running after those players who show lack of motivation and giving them a bollocking in public.

[NANNY RED]

Gary Johnson, two consecutives promotions with Yeovil. Promotion with Bristol City and now they're third in the Championship in their first season in that divison and if they win toninght against Crystal Palace at Ashton Gate, Gary Johnson's Robins go top.

We took a chance on a lower league manager with Shankly, he rebuilt the club into "a bastian of invincibilty"

Bring in Gary Johnson

What have you been smoking John 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Gary Johnson, two consecutives promotions with Yeovil. Promotion with Bristol City and now they're third in the Championship in their first season in that divison and if they win toninght against Crystal Palace at Ashton Gate, Gary Johnson's Robins go top.

We took a chance on a lower league manager with Shankly, he rebuilt the club into "a bastian of invincibilty"

Bring in Gary Johnson

What have you been smoking John 

Bristol's finest is what I've been smoking Nanny

Just be happy I didn't say Paul Trollope (bristol rovers manager) 

[Bammo]

Motivation I won't blame the manager for. Any player who isn't motivated for playing for Liverpool Football Club shouldn't be at this club. But the manager who "loves" this club, should be running after those players who show lack of motivation and giving them a bollocking in public.

It's a feature of the modern game that few managers dare to stand up to the star players. I'd give anything to play one game for Liverpool (and I'm probably better than certain players ) so it pisses me off when I see players not trying or annoyed because they're made to play in a different position.

It's a privelege to play for us but the modern attitude of players is that they have a divine right to play where they want. If, for instance, Gerrard refuses to play right wing, drop him.

Rafa has shown he can occasionally do this (Gerrard subbed in derby) but I'm sure if he was more ruthless he'd have more success. Having said that even more people would slate him on here if he dropped Stevie!

[vinniemac]

I have been really busy of late, new house and all the decorating, and I have not been able to give my first love the time she deserves. My bird has been neglected, and I hope she will forgive me, although she should know that I am doing this all for her. You see once I get the decorating finished my wife will be happy with the new home, all sparkling like a pin, and I can give my bird the full undivded attention she deserves. I am of course talking about the Liverbird, but I digress.

Back on topic, and I have been reading an awful lot of late about Liverpool Football Club. In fact, more than I fee lcompletely comfortable with if I am honest.

In twelve months, or little more, the holy grail of the investment that we needed so badly, both for on and off the field expenditures has turned out to be a total farce.

The men who we welcomed with open arms and afforded the freedom of the city of Liverpool and our hearts, Messrs Gilet and Hicks have turned out to be nothing more than greedy liars. They said they would secure all debts against their personal assets - the didnt, they said they would back the manager, they spoke with Klinsmann (I mean fuc.kin Klinssman !) and they promised to back Rafa, we spent less than Sunderland for fuc.ks sake.

Fast forward 5/6 months and the promise of it being on, the hopes and dreams of getting in amongst the title challengers have all but disappeared and the same old cracks seem to appear. Players just are not good enough, selections at times baffle me and our strikers cant hit a coa's @rse with a fu.cking banjo.

So we find ourselves in the realms of the cries for replacement.

So the question is who do you want to replace Mr Benitez ?

Lest we forget he was himself the number one candidate ahead of a list of luminaries from the game that comprised of Alan Curbishley, MArtin O'Neill and, erm no one else. Just how long this list will be this time is anyones guess.

Despite the fact that some noteable names in management can be bandied about, who exactly is there to replace the man. IF you are a Rafa outer then I want to know who you want in. A name is not enough, I need reasoning, I need availability, I need to see proff that he is better than the man in the job now.

If its not freely available, then do we stick with what we have. Gerard houllier, much lambasted in his final year was afforded 5 years to instigate his plan, so should the same luxury not be afforded to our current spanish incumbent ?

I dont know the answers, I wish I did, but I do know that it hurts, like hell, right inside me, to be fighting with fellow reds about all this. (this happened at the game Saturday, but thats another story). I do know it breaks my heart to see players like Gerrard, Carragher, Torres and Reina who are at the absolute pinnacle of their prowess in the footballing sense have to play with inept "players" (and I use that word looser than a prozzies labia) week in week out like Kewell, Crouch, Riise and the like.

As I said earlier, the love of my life is going to back in the forefront of my mind soon enough, and I look forward to the joys she will bring as much as the lows. If yo dont lose to Barnsley in the FA Cup then beating Juventus and Milan simply would not be the same.

hi all first time posting so dont all give me hell with what i have to say

Rafa has spent more money than any team apart from chelsea he has spent money on players who frankly are not good enough for most teams in premership and some of them not championship more than half are not even still at anfield

fans are shouting yanks out but if it was not for them would Torress be wearing that #9 shirt ..... no he would probally be at scum utd or chelsea

all the rotation resting players for the end of season run in is a waste of time by not playing your strongest team week in week out there is nothing to play for by february as this season has shown can anyone see us beating inter tomorrow and in the away leg the go on a good enough run to get where rafa thinks is a good enough league finish 4th
well thats not good enough liverpool fc should be fighting to the title players should be gooing out week in week out running, trying, fighting for the shirt and with this rotation it does not happen anymore

  rafa has finally run out of time and excuses and in my opion he has to go now  there is only 1 man who can turn this one great team round and thats jose
give the man the money he needs clear out all the overpaid rubbish that rafa has wasted money on and lets get back to beating the top teams ,beating the barnsleys of this world and finally win the premership

[LittleHobo]

i will sum up rafa in one sentence

spent 150 million on assembling HIS team and we are no better now than the first season he came.

[account deleted by request]

Any player who isn't motivated for playing for Liverpool Football Club shouldn't be at this club.

And yet you believe it was the fans that motivated the players into fighting their way back into the game in Istanbul ?


Motivation is not just about firing the players up before they go on the pitch its getting to know which players need an arm round their shoulder and which need a kick up the backside. Its giving players the confidence to perform to the best of their ability. Its helping players recover their confidence when they are going through a bad time. Its building teamspirit and giving them the belief that no matter what, if they all pull together they can overcome any obsticle.