Liverpool FC Forum

[kobashi]

I think it is pretty obvious that Rafa does not have any interest in using Babel as a striker.  It is sad as we paid £11m for the guy.  I don't understand why you spend that money and then play him out of position.

[Big Niall]

Babel should be playing in his best position. Rafa spent big on him so playing him out of position is just going to hurt his confidence especially when supporters think he is cr*p as a result.

If he isn't good enough to play for LFC in his best position, then why did Rafa spend all that money on him?

I can't work Rafa out

[Sean]

Paco Aysteran obviously couldn't work Rafa out either.

[pokster]

Ryan Babel is a very good player, and just remember that A. Wenger was desperate to bring him to Arsenal this season, but he failed to get him!. All my friends who support Arsenal, M.united, Chelsea, M.City, were saying that Babel went to the wrong team and under the wrong manager, who will eventually destroy him!!., This player should be playing week in week out in LFC first team, and should one of the main starter in the team, whether on either wings and along with Torres, and Crouch, as for the other two donkeys Kuyt and Voronin, to be dropped to the team reserves.
Just have a look at M. Sissoko, a player who had some good potential to become a top class midfield player. Look at him now under Benitez for three seasons, he is a shadow of how he was when he joined LFC, did not develop at all, his performances is in a study decline!!! Give this player to A.Wenger, or Ferguson, they will make a very top class player worth £10-15 Millions.

Our LFC problem is Benitez, he is a very negative manager, makes to many mistakes, but arrogant to accept his mistakes, or acknowledge it. BAD MANAGER

Negative manager? You've gotta be kidding me.

So you think that if Arsene Wenger bought Ryan Babel and he will put him straight into the team? Did he do that with Van Persie? Hleb? Eduardo? Toure? Flamini ? And many more..

What about Alex Ferguson spending more than 10 million pounds on Michael Carrick and where did he put him? Anderson is not first choice too.

I will never forget Rafa's Valencia totally destroyed our team years ago at Anfield in the European tie. And Houllier was supposed to be great defensively. We were cut open like butter.

Give him time... Liverpool was founded in 1892. Our sucess did not come till very much later. Rafa's been here for a little more than 3 years and we expect the heaven from him? Anyone ridiculing his credentials ought to be shot. 2 champions league finals, an FA cup final, Super cup etc. What are all these? Do not pretend that you did not cheer when they lifted those cups.

[skatesy]

Give him time... Liverpool was founded in 1892. Our sucess did not come till very much later. Rafa's been here for a little more than 3 years and we expect the heaven from him? Anyone ridiculing his credentials ought to be shot. 2 champions league finals, an FA cup final, Super cup etc. What are all these? Do not pretend that you did not cheer when they lifted those cups.

A f.ucking men man. AMEN!

I totally agree. This should be thrown on the front page.

[bigmick]

Give him time... Liverpool was founded in 1892. Our sucess did not come till very much later. Rafa's been here for a little more than 3 years and we expect the heaven from him? Anyone ridiculing his credentials ought to be shot. 2 champions league finals, an FA cup final, Super cup etc. What are all these? Do not pretend that you did not cheer when they lifted those cups.

It's this sort of thing which gets me. Anyone who ridicules Rafa's credentials should be shot. Firstly, I don't think anybody is "ridiculing his credentials", but secondly "should be shot" 

No, "Well I can see why people might be getting impatient, but for my part I still firmly believe in the manager". No, "well I'm definately prepared to give him another couple of uyears, we'll come good I'm sure of it". None of that. If you don't follow the matra, if you dare to criticise you are effectively an idiot.

I tell you who has become one of my favourite posters on here over the last few weeks, Sabre. I've disagreed with the fella constantly over the last couple of years on a few subjects, but fair play to him the way he's handled himself over the last couple of weeks has impressed me greatly.

He's not come on and said he was wrong and nor does he need to, but he hasn't slagged off those who disagree with him either. He hasn't made excuses, he has reiterated what he believes in but has accepted that based on what is happening right now, those doubters are justified in continuing to be unconvinced. He hasn't jumped on the "all the players will leave if Rafa does" bandwagon, nor has he blamed the problems on injuries.

People who doubt where we are going don't need to be shot FFS. People who are not prepared to look at the situation objectively don't need to be shot either, but they don't deserve to be taken seriously that's for sure.

[Ace Ventura]

Can i just say one thing about Babel that isnt helping him. The lack of options or people running off him when he gets the ball.
Against Luton he was being given the ball right on the touchline with the full back tight to him, there was no runners off him making space and nobody getting close enough to show for a pass, so effectively it was like saying....there you go, i'll pass it to you, now you go and do something with it. Now thats not that bad...we do want or expect our wide players to create something from nothing at times, but the Luton full back could see that Babel had no option but to try and take him on and just concentrated on stopping him.
I could see Babel getting more and more frustrated and the confidence draining from him.
He isnt a left winger anyway, but if we are going to play him there he needs more help and not people just giving it to him and stopping, expecting him to make something from nothing.

[Yessicajax]

I think it is pretty obvious that Rafa does not have any interest in using Babel as a striker.  It is sad as we paid £11m for the guy.  I don't understand why you spend that money and then play him out of position.

Maybe u guys must bring him back to ajax (rent, or how do i say?)
Like Alex did go to Psv..now he is a very good player.
I think it will be good (also for us) if he play more..

[maguskwt]

so far his game is about direct running... he doesn't have the change of pace or trickiness of torres

what player are you watching mate? he's probably the quickest player in the entire squad in terms of explosive pace, torres included.

'change of pace' is not 'pace' mate... Big Mick partially explained it earlier...I'm not saying Babel does not have pace... he surely is a very fast player...

however I'm talking about when the player has the ball and running with it at a normal pace... the defender has to adjust to this pace but all of a sudden the player accelerates with a burst of speed to full sprint therefore bypassing the marker... Torres uses this technique very cleverly...so did michael owen when he was younger... in fact I think alot of ppl overestimate Torres' pace because of this... Big Mick got it spot on when he said it's an illusion... even though Torres is a very pacey player I don't think he's faster than Cisse or Anelka in terms of pure speed...but he uses his pace more effectively

[kobashi]

Ryan Babel is a very good player, and just remember that A. Wenger was desperate to bring him to Arsenal this season, but he failed to get him!. All my friends who support Arsenal, M.united, Chelsea, M.City, were saying that Babel went to the wrong team and under the wrong manager, who will eventually destroy him!!., This player should be playing week in week out in LFC first team, and should one of the main starter in the team, whether on either wings and along with Torres, and Crouch, as for the other two donkeys Kuyt and Voronin, to be dropped to the team reserves.
Just have a look at M. Sissoko, a player who had some good potential to become a top class midfield player. Look at him now under Benitez for three seasons, he is a shadow of how he was when he joined LFC, did not develop at all, his performances is in a study decline!!! Give this player to A.Wenger, or Ferguson, they will make a very top class player worth £10-15 Millions.

Our LFC problem is Benitez, he is a very negative manager, makes to many mistakes, but arrogant to accept his mistakes, or acknowledge it. BAD MANAGER

Negative manager? You've gotta be kidding me.

So you think that if Arsene Wenger bought Ryan Babel and he will put him straight into the team? Did he do that with Van Persie? Hleb? Eduardo? Toure? Flamini ? And many more..

What about Alex Ferguson spending more than 10 million pounds on Michael Carrick and where did he put him? Anderson is not first choice too.

I will never forget Rafa's Valencia totally destroyed our team years ago at Anfield in the European tie. And Houllier was supposed to be great defensively. We were cut open like butter.

Give him time... Liverpool was founded in 1892. Our sucess did not come till very much later. Rafa's been here for a little more than 3 years and we expect the heaven from him? Anyone ridiculing his credentials ought to be shot. 2 champions league finals, an FA cup final, Super cup etc. What are all these? Do not pretend that you did not cheer when they lifted those cups.

Yeah Valencia did rip us apart but don't get it twisted.  That Side Rafa built was negative.  ask any La Liga fan about Valencia under Rafa and they will tell you he won the title twice with boring football.

[Bad Bob]

ask any La Liga fan about Valencia under Rafa and they will tell you he won the title twice

Here's the only relevant part of that sentence, mate.  I'd love to have Liverpool win the league twice with boring football.  Love it!

[mart]

Yeah Valencia did rip us apart but don't get it twisted.  That Side Rafa built was negative.  ask any La Liga fan about Valencia under Rafa and they will tell you he won the title twice with boring football.

Ask any Valencia fan if they want Benitez back, or if they prefer playing with a team full of attacking stars.

[LegBarnes]

Can i just say one thing about Babel that isnt helping him. The lack of options or people running off him when he gets the ball.
Against Luton he was being given the ball right on the touchline with the full back tight to him, there was no runners off him making space and nobody getting close enough to show for a pass, so effectively it was like saying....there you go, i'll pass it to you, now you go and do something with it. Now thats not that bad...we do want or expect our wide players to create something from nothing at times, but the Luton full back could see that Babel had no option but to try and take him on and just concentrated on stopping him.
I could see Babel getting more and more frustrated and the confidence draining from him.
He isnt a left winger anyway, but if we are going to play him there he needs more help and not people just giving it to him and stopping, expecting him to make something from nothing.

agree with that and i get impression alot of fans think he ment to be a ronny type player he isnt he is more like henry he is a finisher thats it with good pace and strong shot.

rafa is mad trying to play him on wing imo , i think he is only ever gonna be a striker i see goals in him if he gets the chance !

herny went to arsenal a broken player having to play on winger for so long he had no confidence wenger seen right away he had tallent in other areas. So he played him as striker and now one of best ever in prem.

Rafa didnt have this problem he knows babel is a striker why is he making life for him self so hard only he can tell you that.

[pokster]

Give him time... Liverpool was founded in 1892. Our sucess did not come till very much later. Rafa's been here for a little more than 3 years and we expect the heaven from him? Anyone ridiculing his credentials ought to be shot. 2 champions league finals, an FA cup final, Super cup etc. What are all these? Do not pretend that you did not cheer when they lifted those cups.

It's this sort of thing which gets me. Anyone who ridicules Rafa's credentials should be shot. Firstly, I don't think anybody is "ridiculing his credentials", but secondly "should be shot" 

No, "Well I can see why people might be getting impatient, but for my part I still firmly believe in the manager". No, "well I'm definately prepared to give him another couple of uyears, we'll come good I'm sure of it". None of that. If you don't follow the matra, if you dare to criticise you are effectively an idiot.

I tell you who has become one of my favourite posters on here over the last few weeks, Sabre. I've disagreed with the fella constantly over the last couple of years on a few subjects, but fair play to him the way he's handled himself over the last couple of weeks has impressed me greatly.

He's not come on and said he was wrong and nor does he need to, but he hasn't slagged off those who disagree with him either. He hasn't made excuses, he has reiterated what he believes in but has accepted that based on what is happening right now, those doubters are justified in continuing to be unconvinced. He hasn't jumped on the "all the players will leave if Rafa does" bandwagon, nor has he blamed the problems on injuries.

People who doubt where we are going don't need to be shot FFS. People who are not prepared to look at the situation objectively don't need to be shot either, but they don't deserve to be taken seriously that's for sure.

Its just a figure of speech, bigmick. I'm not English for that matter, sorry.

I have read many posts in numerous threads here and maybe, just maybe that I perceived certain comments/posts/remarks from many different people that they are questioning Rafa's tactics/selections/man-management abilities.

These factors strongly favours the fact that the same people who cheered when we win the cups under Rafa are now getting skeptical of the above mentioned abilities. Therefore, I might be wrong in classifying it as "questioning Rafa's credentials". Do correct me if I am wrong because I believe everyone should be entitled to their opinions.

We win as a team and lose as a team.

[stmichael]

Can i just say one thing about Babel that isnt helping him. The lack of options or people running off him when he gets the ball.
Against Luton he was being given the ball right on the touchline with the full back tight to him, there was no runners off him making space and nobody getting close enough to show for a pass, so effectively it was like saying....there you go, i'll pass it to you, now you go and do something with it. Now thats not that bad...we do want or expect our wide players to create something from nothing at times, but the Luton full back could see that Babel had no option but to try and take him on and just concentrated on stopping him.
I could see Babel getting more and more frustrated and the confidence draining from him.
He isnt a left winger anyway, but if we are going to play him there he needs more help and not people just giving it to him and stopping, expecting him to make something from nothing.

agree with that and i get impression alot of fans think he ment to be a ronny type player he isnt he is more like henry he is a finisher thats it with good pace and strong shot.

rafa is mad trying to play him on wing imo , i think he is only ever gonna be a striker i see goals in him if he gets the chance !

herny went to arsenal a broken player having to play on winger for so long he had no confidence wenger seen right away he had tallent in other areas. So he played him as striker and now one of best ever in prem.

Rafa didnt have this problem he knows babel is a striker why is he making life for him self so hard only he can tell you that.

long term he has to be utilised in a 4-3-3. that's what he was raised playing, as at ajax, every team plays the same system. playing him wide in a 4-4-2 gives him defensive responsibilities aswell which i don't think he's used to.