Liverpool FC Forum

[greenbyname_redbynature]

Given the rumblings about Barry being our "big" signing of the summer, I can't recall ever feeling as downbeat about the season to come as I feel now

good post to say the least mick, then you ruin it with this. this season isn't even over and you're already worried about next year.

get that doom and gloom out of your head and get positive. come the start of next year, i'll be as positive as anybody. next year is our year. my opinion won't be changed on who we buy or who we sell. if for some idiotic reason we sell the spine of our squad you was on about, i'd still say we're gonna win the league. heart over mind.

so stop being downbeat about next year because we haven't conceeded a goal yet in 08-09, we haven't rotated anybody in 08-09 yet, we haven't lost in 08-09 yet.  so stop being so pesimistic.

other than that, good post. 

[eds]

Stats that matter :-

Money spent : millions
League titles : zero

Only in your World does the strength of the competition not matter...

Strength of the competition?

Does that same competition also include drawing games to likes of Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Wigan and LUTON? ??

Or losing to teams like Reading and West Ham? ?

Don't they also comprise of this "competition" your harping on about?

And if we look back at yesteryear you have the powerhouses of Sheffield United, Southhampton, Charlton, Burnley etc which under Benitez we couldn't muster wins against.

The silence is deafening....................

[greenbyname_redbynature]

was vicente left/right wing nanny?

I could be wrong here but im sure he played on the left for Valencia and Spain. Very very quick and loved to take people on im sure he still plays for Valencia

i've seen his name branded about a bit on here and if he worked well in spain with Benitez, maybe he is the most logical choice (if he still has the quality of course) to solve our left wing problems.

I like him a lot but i think hes suffered a lot of problems with injuries and i dont know how old he is now, Sabre is the best one to fill you in on how hes doin now

well pretty much anyone could give me a better opinion of the lad than I already have on him. I can't remember him from any international tournaments, so either he wasn't there or he just didn't impress me which is possible. Also I can't remember being amazed by him when I saw Valencia in the past. Those who follow La Liga week in week out though could probably give a better insight into him. What his strenghts and weaknesses are.

Aimar did amaze me, very clever player and had a proper scouse haircut. Proper perm. He's knocking on now, so probably wouldn't be that good an option.

Well ive just had a nosy on google and hes only 26 , was young spanish player of the year 2003 and is still the fans favorite at Valencia. Played this year but suffered a bad injury and from then Valencia went down hill.

Little clip of the lad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPQxBDiCuzU


Put it this way i wouldnt be to unhappy if he became a left winger for us

looks good nanny and at 26 his best is still to come. he'll be hitting his prime next year and the year after.

maybe worth a punt.

[eds]

was vicente left/right wing nanny?

I could be wrong here but im sure he played on the left for Valencia and Spain. Very very quick and loved to take people on im sure he still plays for Valencia

i've seen his name branded about a bit on here and if he worked well in spain with Benitez, maybe he is the most logical choice (if he still has the quality of course) to solve our left wing problems.

I like him a lot but i think hes suffered a lot of problems with injuries and i dont know how old he is now, Sabre is the best one to fill you in on how hes doin now

He is 26 yo, only played a few games this season due to injury.

Going for him would be a big risk. Especially as a smaller type player, could be another Gonzalez in the making.........

[Owzat]

Stats that matter :-

Money spent : millions
League titles : zero

Only in your World does the strength of the competition not matter...

Strength of the competition?

Does that same competition also include drawing games to likes of Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Wigan and LUTON? ??

Or losing to teams like Reading and West Ham? ?

Don't they also comprise of this "competition" your harping on about?

And if we look back at yesteryear you have the powerhouses of Sheffield United, Southhampton, Charlton, Burnley etc which under Benitez we couldn't muster wins against.

The silence is deafening....................

Precisely.

And at the end of the day (Lando), we all want to win the league and the stat that hurts most is the length of time since we last won the league. Or maybe you consider it too strong that we should just be happy being also rans. Arsene spent less than we have and funnily enough has THREE Premiership titles under his belt, he doesn't prattle on about "strength of the competition" he just gets on with it. That's life, we just have to get on with it. You have to beat what's in front of you, perhaps if more people stopped making excuses we might actually get somewhere. Excuses for Crouch not scoring, excuses for not beating such and such a team, excuses for not winning the league, excuses for poor signings, excuses, excuses, excuses.

[SundanceKid]

I was watching Fox Soccer Channel [Because that along with GolTV is all I can get for 120 dollars month in this country. But they do show SkySports broadcasts on FSC so I'm fine]. I was justing watching the Liverpool Tottenham highlights again and after Reina's second acrobatic save, the American guy says, "I wonder if he'll be playing with Tottenham next season...". I was staring at the TV with the blankest face ever haha.

Just thought I'd share.

[Rockthekop]

Bar Torres, our strikers aren't good enough.  We have no real quality in the wide areas from back to front.  Rafa has bought some very good players such as Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Babel, Torres.  He has also wasted millions buying players who aren't good enough such as Pennant, Voronin, Kuyt, Crouch etc.  It's quality we need, not quantity.  Rafa has to get it right this season and challenge for the league, he's had enough time to do that at least.

Will we win the league next season?  For me, no, we aren't quite there yet.

[parchpea]

You need a lot of players given teams have to rotate in the modern game due to the pace and power of the matches.

If we trim the squad by half dozen or more then we will need that many coming in and given we do not have the biggest budget these will not be elite players.

We remain a team stuck in 4th place and this is where we have been for many years now. If you look back at one time we battled with Chelsea for this position each season but when Abramovich arrived he threw 200m at it to close up the gap between 4th and 1st and winning the thing. The players they purchased now mean they are on Utds level but we are still stuck in our battles at 4th.

In short I beleive it will take an investment in the first team squad well in excess of 100m and probably more to close things up unless Utd and Chelsea stuff it up big style and frankly thats not likely.

[PhiLFC]

You know that Chelsea and Utd have both bought players that didn't work out for them, very expensive too:- Veron, Shevchenko, Duff, Mutu, Forlan -  in fact absolutely fucking millions upon millions of £'s and the list is huge.  When you look at them Kuyt and Crouch are actually not bad signings at all.

On Match of the Day yesterday the pundits mentioned that Sunderland have spent £45m just to stay in the EPL, they also mentioned how much neverton will have to spend to get into the top four (they've got no chance)... we spent £27m on just one player and we're pretty much treading water.  At that rate we probably need to spend £100m on 3 or at most 4 players to step up  to the next level.

[Rockthekop]

Until we have the necessary investment, Rafa must make his signings count.  Proven quality, no more average players. 

Chelsea have just splashed out 16.2M on Jose Bosingwa, a right back.  How do you compete with that? DIC please buy us!

[stmichael]

Whatever the relative spend - and it's less than clear - the reason why United are a better side than us is that they have 3 forward players with a combined value (whatever they have cost Utd to date, or will cost in the future) of near 100million. We don't. Has to be said that, even with this amount, they still nearly blew the Prem this season.

Could we have been in a similar situation with our resources? Would the substantial investment in resources on 2 or 3 players of (very) high value allowed the rest of the squad to keep performing at a level that would have kept us competitive? Truth is we'll never know and it would have depended on so many other factors - players available that wanted to joinus, injuries/performance levels in a thin squad etc - that making a judgement about this is impossible. There are no facts here, only opinions.

Am I -a-hoop at scrapping around 4th place? No, I'm not. Is Rafa Benitez a faultless manager who is on an inevitable path to a Premiership trophy, no, I don't think so - this league is so hard to win now that I don't think that any amount of investment can make it inevitable.

Are we a better team now than we were when he joined? Without a doubt. We have just lost 4 games in a Premiership season - when was the last time that happened? We have one the world's great strikers, two world class midfield players and a very very good goalkeeper. We only had one of these 4 years ago, and even he was looking ever harder to keep hold of.

We're a far better team than we were four years ago, but the squad, and the manager, are far from perfect. Would a different manager, with different investment priorities now have us in a stronger position? In my view, no. Until I feel differently, the manager has my support.

[PhiLFC]

Its a good post stmike.  I think the 2 or 3 top quality players may have made a difference in the games where we drew - the draws didn't "kill" just us but Chelsea and Arsenal too if you look at the table.  But the double that utd did over us hurts like hell doesn't it?  It's a real 12 pointer...

Are we a better team now than we were when he joined? Without a doubt. We have just lost 4 games in a Premiership season - when was the last time that happened? We have one the world's great strikers, two world class midfield players and a very very good goalkeeper. We only had one of these 4 years ago, and even he was looking ever harder to keep hold of.

We're a far better team than we were four years ago, but the squad, and the manager, are far from perfect. Would a different manager, with different investment priorities now have us in a stronger position? In my view, no. Until I feel differently, the manager has my support.

Couldn't have put it better meself.

[stmichael]

It puts it into perspective when Chelsea have gone out today and spent £16m on a fullback like it's loose change.

The spine of our side is as good as anything in this League. We've got a great spine, and it's taken 4 seasons. The pressure and expectation is already mounting. This summer we have to go out and get some better quality on the flanks, with less cash than the two clubs above us. Both of whom will also be looking for at least one more fullback each, and probably another winger in Chelsea's case.

Everyone knows we need the better players, but how are we meant to get them when Chelsea and the mancs bid big for them, and do so faster than anyone else? They've got more money than us, don't have to spread it about the squad (and even if they didn't, wouldn't matter as much 'cos they can just get more cash) and they're moving quicker than us.

...and come August the knives will be sharper than ever for Rafa to put in a title challenge because he's "spent big"...

[Reg]

Agree with everything you said in your last 2 posts St Mike.

Would also point out that the top 4´s league statistics are quite similar especially in terms of games lost, goals scored and conceded  however if you look at positions 5 to 8 and the number of games lost, goals etc.. you realise that Liverpool have worked bl**dy hard to get into the top 4 but also that Kevin Keegan was right, it is a massive step for a club to go even from 5th to 4th, its like a premier section of the premier league.

So many bright prospects have imploded this year - Man City despite spending a fortune, Spurs despite a handy squad and Everton despite being a Small club, Newcastle, the perennial dreamers. They are all 5 years + 100 million away from joining the top 4.

What is the cost of 2nd place?? At least another 75 million.


Finally .... Chelsea only spend 16 million on a defender....? Two year ago they would happily of paid 20.

[LFC2007]

The problem we have, IMO, is that we might've given ourselves too much to do in the upcoming transfer window.

Even if we were to get in the top quality left winger and second striker, we'd still be lacking at left back, right back and right wing.

If you can excuse one of the FB positions, we'd still need four top players in order to match the Manc's, who themselves will be strengthening further in the summer.

Nailing each of these positions in one go is tough, and it doesn't usually happen unless you've silly money to spend, and even then it's difficult to achieve.