Liverpool FC Forum

[C-R]

Has anyone got any pro's as to why brendan deserves to get another clean sheet ? Other than we are liverpool and we don't sack manager's. Something positive thats actually going well for him or an area he has excelled in ? I can't think of many 

Pro's
He can deal with the media.

Con's
He talks too much and then over elaborates.
Nothing he says materialises.
He is stubborn, arrogant and has a massive ego.
Extremely poor in the transfer market.
Failure to improve what he did buy.
Tactically inept.
Blew a lot of money.
Extremely poor preparation for the CL.
Inconsistent with his team selections.
The embarrassing excuses.
His lack of winning experience.
His lack of european experience.
His failure to implement his philosophy.
His backroom staff.
His refusal to recognise he needs help.
Complete failure in sorting out our defensive issue's.
Very heavily reliant on players he inherited.
Cannot secure top talents.
Probably has lost half his dressing room.


I have never slagged him off over his teeth, his bird or anything else personal as that is his business. I judge him on what i believe to be crucial parts of management and how we have progressed under him.
It would be interesting to hear if anyone has any pro's as to why he should be given more time beyond this season.

Quality post that mate 

Sounds to me like you have made your mind up on him, the same way i have 

[Kash_Mountain]

Has anyone got any pro's as to why brendan deserves to get another clean sheet ? Other than we are liverpool and we don't sack manager's. Something positive thats actually going well for him or an area he has excelled in ? I can't think of many 

Pro's
He can deal with the media.

Con's
He talks too much and then over elaborates.
Nothing he says materialises.
He is stubborn, arrogant and has a massive ego.
Extremely poor in the transfer market.
Failure to improve what he did buy.
Tactically inept.
Blew a lot of money.
Extremely poor preparation for the CL.
Inconsistent with his team selections.
The embarrassing excuses.
His lack of winning experience.
His lack of european experience.
His failure to implement his philosophy.
His backroom staff.
His refusal to recognise he needs help.
Complete failure in sorting out our defensive issue's.
Very heavily reliant on players he inherited.
Cannot secure top talents.
Probably has lost half his dressing room.


I have never slagged him off over his teeth, his bird or anything else personal as that is his business. I judge him on what i believe to be crucial parts of management and how we have progressed under him.
It would be interesting to hear if anyone has any pro's as to why he should be given more time beyond this season.

He's actually awful when dealing with the media. Can you out that one in the  Cons?  Watching BR during a Press Conference is similar to watching fawlty Towers or even The Office. Cringeworthy to say the least becuase he repeats the same rubbish all the time - 'intensity' is his current catchphrase.

He must be disciplined and not open his mouth, things would be so much better if he could learn to do this. His very recent one,  BR stating (mouthing off) that he was responsible for RS's getting into form, then manages to blame all but himself when RS's form takes a dip.  That is the kind of Coach he is - Arrogant, stubborn, egotistical.

[parchpea]

I still stand by him because I think his hands are tied with the way FSG want to run the football club with this
transfer committee.

We never hear the full truth on who is recruiting players and it drives me mad.

[eds]

BC - okay then let's compare him to Ferguson, In his first full season as United manager he finished second but then finished 11th and 13th in consecutive seasons, by that point the United fans had lost faith in him and wanted him out. To be fair to them he looked hopeless, he was wasting money on players like Neil Webb and Terry Phelan and they were on the wrong end of some bad results like 4-0 losses to us and Forest and infamously a 5-1 loss in the Manchester derby to an average City side.
Any manager can go through periods where they struggle, Ferguson was one of the greatest managers of all time but he couldn't do nothing right for 2 years.
If we sack Rodgers now we will look absolutely stupid. How is it going to look in the history books that we sacked a manager 4 months after he came closer than any other Liverpool manager in the last 25 years to winning the title?
People will look back and see how well we played when Suarez was banned, they will look at the 6-0 at Newcastle and the great start we made to last season with Sturridge leading the line, they will even look at our start to this season when we had Sturridge and see that we beat Southampton and Spurs and notice that our only loss was away at the champions after playing them off the park for 44 minutes.
It is going to look in the history books like Rodgers was sacked because Sturridge was injured, our fan base are going to look like the biggest bunch of spoilt whiners and moaners in history, and before anyone mentions wasted money I am telling you that most of those signings will turn out to be top players, yes it might take them a couple of years to reach their peak but that will make the fans look even worse.
Imagine Brendan adds insult to injury by dusting himself down and having a lot of success somewhere else? He is only 41 after all.

You are wasting your time mate.
Their minds appear to be made and they'll turn on the new guy as soon as we hit a rough patch. 

The short term thinking in this game is astonishing when you consider that all the great clubs have became great through long term plans.

It's not really that you are wasting your time, its just that the majority think both your opinions are completely wrong.

The reason why is that you can't see how MUCH MORE damage Rodgers can do to this club if he were given money in January or beyond that in the summer.

Imagine how far back we will be if either Sterling, Coutinho or Sturridge left and we brought in more 19yo/20yos in?

As fans of this club it's not something we are prepared to accept, maybe you are but unfortunately the rot needs to stop somewhere and pointing your fingers at irrelevant examples such as Ferguson's United in the 80s is just burying your heads in the sand at what is going on. 

[eds]

I still stand by him because I think his hands are tied with the way FSG want to run the football club with this
transfer committee.

We never hear the full truth on who is recruiting players and it drives me mad.

We don't need to, we already know what is going on.

The system of recruiting players needs to change, unfortunately that may not be something FSG are willing to do.

If so, it's time to ask the    to leave.

[red till i die!!]

I still stand by him because I think his hands are tied with the way FSG want to run the football club with this
transfer committee.

We never hear the full truth on who is recruiting players and it drives me mad.

He has come out numerous times and said that he sign's the players. He has the final say, he will only add what he feels will improve the group, we wont buy anybody just for the sake of it and thats not even taking into account the fact that he refused to work with a DOF when getting the job. Honestly most fans lap up what they want to hear and disregard the obvious. Listen to the man bang on about his philosophy and then do you really think he is going to trust someone else to sign the players for it  I know some would like to believe he did but no way did he.

I have no doubts whatsoever that he has restrictions to work with like a certain percentage has to be of a certain age etc but he still picks them and is the one who is supposed to coach them to a better level. It hasn't all been kids and under10 mil buys either as he has spent north of that on others. he has brought the 2 most expensive defenders in the clubs history, 15 mil on joe allen, 25 mil on lallana who never even played a european game and 20 mil on markovic to warm the bench. The problem has always been that he is signing players that are not good enough and when they fail he papers over the cracks with loans and oldies while what he did sign boosts the benches of other clubs on loan.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

When it comes to arriving at the conclusion  a manager has had his day, I'm usually one of the last to admit defeat ,call it romanticism ,call it sentimentality ,call it
a rigid belief in a Liverpool fans way of going about their business.....So its with a heavy heart  that  I will openly admit I have nothing left in the tank to proffer in the
man's defence,as Tuesday's farce was inexcusable for a man who has been tasked to retrieve our collective hopes and dreams.

A game so important to the collative inside Anfield was treated with utter contempt and sheer cowardice by Rodgers, and it was mirrored by the players he opted to field.
Never have I seen a first half performance with so many  disinterested players ,never have I seen a game of this significance so bereft of passion and heart,and it was
arguably the most torturous 90 minutes I have ever had to endure . If Rodgers intentions were to obliterate any shred of hope we had at once again dining at the big table
then he couldn't have proffered no greater pointer than that fucking team sheet..... Absolutely disgusted with the fella.

I disagree mate, yes the team sheet was negative and the first half abysmal but I thought the second half was probably the best half of football we've put together so far this season, especially considering we were down to 10 men for most of it. If we would have managed to score another goal that comeback would have went down in Anfield folklore so I don't know how you can describe the whole 90 minutes as torturous.
Managers these days don't seem to get the opportunity to put things right, as we both know Shankly went through some tough times himself at the end of the 60's, one particular season we were beaten at home by the likes of Everton and United (United beat us 4-1 at Anfield, imagine the reaction of these modern fans to that!), we were knocked out of Europe in November by the mighty Veroria Setubal and knocked out of the F.A cup by second division Watford in one of the most infamous results in our history.
Before anyone starts going on about money by the standards of the day Shankly spent big money around that time on flops like Tony Hateley, Alun Evans and even John Toshack (who scored 4 league goals in his first season) to try and get us back challenging again, it was only when Kevin Keegan arrived from Scunthorpe that everything seemed to click.
Good job Shankly wasn't around in this era, he would have been well hounded out before he had the chance to put together that team that eventually conquered English and European football under Bob.

Yakka if the first half had the same tenacity and verve the players shown in the second we would not be having this debate fella ,quite frankly I have nothing to defend
him with ,all I will say is the expectant fans shoehorned into Anfield on Tuesday night expected a performance that belied our current form ,they expected the players
that took to that field to run until their respective lungs burst mate ,anything less would be contemptuous given the belief inside that great stadium.

We had one football game to go shit or bust ,one game where the winner would take all the spoils ,and the man showed his ineptitude even before kick off with
two defensive midfielder's and also left us bereft of the inclusion of a striker to usurp the comatose Lambert. Now he comes out today and states we need to forget about
the Champion's League  How convenient that would be for him ,believe me if I could strike such a feeble campaign from my mind I would have done it long before
now.

As for the players he's recruited ,I'm not one of those who believes it was money wasted ,there's some very talented players who will flourish soon enough ,but regrettably
I don't envisage Rodgers throwing in a brief  interval from Ground Hog Day!   Had it with him lad ,and will never forgive him for frittering away the hopes of all those
who tipped up to Anfield on Tuesday night .....Honestly mate I trudged out of Anfield as weary and as drained as the performance I had just witnessed.

I never want to experience that welt of disassociation from the club I felt driving home on Tuesday night ,the Kop sang our anthem at the culmination of this disastrous campaign and the words just stuck in my throat ,they simply weren't warranted and Rodgers has no place hearing them.

[maguskwt]

Yeah... Kick a manager when he's down... That's the kind of supporters some of you lot on here are. I agree with yakka whole heartedly. BR deserves full support for how he has turned around the team in his first two seasons, qualified us for Europe ahead of plan and come closer than even Rafa to winning the league ahead of plan. Those who attributed this to only Suarez and Suarez alone is just talking out of his/her *****. Don't get me wrong, the under performance by the team now is BR's responsibility of course. But so too should the over achievement be credited to the man. If we are still going down hill by the end of the season, and not improving in the first half of next season, then yeah we should all be worried legitimately. But we still have half a season left and BR deserves the time and support to turn this team around. This year is like another mini rebuilding phase whether some people like it or not and this is due to the departure of Suarez, the continuing decline of Gerrard and injuries to key players.

The personal attacks that the manager is receiving is also absolutely ridiculous. Have we the supporters become like tabloids? What has his family issues has anything to do with how we should be assessing his professional performance? It seem like the majority of those who are whining now just want us to be bank rolled by a billionaire tycoon and get instant success.

[The_Rock]

We are being linked with Diego Simeone in a a couple of places, this article is an interesting read... http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/2 ... e-manager/

wow... now this is the type of progressive young manager with European experience we should be signing to lead this team.

It sounds to good to be true.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

We are being linked with Diego Simeone in a a couple of places, this article is an interesting read... http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/2 ... e-manager/

wow... now this is the type of progressive young manager with European experience we should be signing to lead this team.

It sounds to good to be true.

Progressive? He sets his teams up to work hard and not to get beat, he doesn't play expansive football.

[Kash_Mountain]

We are being linked with Diego Simeone in a a couple of places, this article is an interesting read... http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/2 ... e-manager/

wow... now this is the type of progressive young manager with European experience we should be signing to lead this team.

It sounds to good to be true.

Progressive? He sets his teams up to work hard and not to get beat, he doesn't play expansive football.

[Kash_Mountain]

Yeah... Kick a manager when he's down... That's the kind of supporters some of you lot on here are. I agree with yakka whole heartedly. BR deserves full support for how he has turned around the team in his first two seasons, qualified us for Europe ahead of plan and come closer than even Rafa to winning the league ahead of plan. Those who attributed this to only Suarez and Suarez alone is just talking out of his/her *****. Don't get me wrong, the under performance by the team now is BR's responsibility of course. But so too should the over achievement be credited to the man. If we are still going down hill by the end of the season, and not improving in the first half of next season, then yeah we should all be worried legitimately. But we still have half a season left and BR deserves the time and support to turn this team around. This year is like another mini rebuilding phase whether some people like it or not and this is due to the departure of Suarez, the continuing decline of Gerrard and injuries to key players.

The personal attacks that the manager is receiving is also absolutely ridiculous. Have we the supporters become like tabloids? What has his family issues has anything to do with how we should be assessing his professional performance? It seem like the majority of those who are whining now just want us to be bank rolled by a billionaire tycoon and get instant success.

What? kick a Coach (he is not a Manager) when he is down! BR is the one that has has created the great big mess the Club finds itself in.

1: We have a good and bright group of players underperforming, why? well,  that is down to the way BR and the rest of his staff have been coaching and managing them.  It’s down to BR and his staff.

2: There is no more money the golden pot, why? because BR wasted vast amounts of millions bringing in players that don’t fit or suit  his style, and he is stubborn and arrogant to change it around. Again, down to BR wasting millions, and because he has no clue how to fix the glaring mess he's made. It is going to take LFC getting into further debt to bring in players, if they can't sell first. I really don't think the Owners are prepared to do that.  It’s sell first, then buy with FFP looming.  Don’t expect anybody to be brought in January except maybe a GK. That would be about it.
*Off course, to run a Club, the wages, the fees (transfer and agents) amongst many other things have to be looked at.
*Remember FSG have already begun work on the stadium,  and coughed up plenty of monies for that too.
*To try and claw some of the monies back, they look to sell naming rights of the Stadium and Stands to ease the money issue.
*remember, the loans FSG took out have to be repaid as well.
*For this reason, and the way things are going (because of BR wasting vast amount of millions over the Summer), a new manager is unlikely going to be given a large pot of gold to bring players in. There is no money now (because it was wasted), except maybe for a GK. However, as I said, it will most likely be a sell first, then buy. It will be like that for some time unless FSG can provide money from naming rights etc, if that  gets off the ground.


2a: BR made promises to the Owners that he hasn’t been able to keep about the CL and EPL. He’s had great amounts of financial backing which to all and sundry has been for the most part been wasted, and as a result,  LFC’s Debts have grown because of this. Again, down to BR.

2b: BR’s transfer handlings have failed in approx. 90% of cases (to many players to mention). This Transfer Committee is there to help him, however, in the process of buying playing, it is a consensus agreement, with BR getting the final say (imo). 
*I say again, LFC are in great amounts of debt, BR had a great amount of involvement with that.
*LFC are in breach of the FFP rules and regulations again, BR had great involvement with that.
*The Academy players that the fans were looking forward to and getting excited about have been shafted big time by BR and are leaving the club, again, BR has had great amounts of involvement with.

3: He has messed it up at LFC and is continually making it worse.

4: I suppose many LFC fans have spoken up (i.e. rubbished) about some of the bad players of the past and present. Some past and present players have been oh so awful and not fit to wear the Red shirt. and have left, or are still here and playing week in, week out (again, this is down it BR and his favourites). So why do some feel over protective of BR, the man that is dragging LFC down due to his arrogance and stubbornness to change things?

[The_Rock]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ter-united

Holy cow........ Rodgers is back at it again. Jesus. Talk about being in denial.

Brendan Rodgers has responded defiantly to mounting criticism of his Liverpool tenure and claimed he is the best man for the task of restoring fortunes at Anfield.

Not for the first time this season the Liverpool manager is under pressure after his team’s elimination from the Champions League on Tuesday and their poor performance in the must-win game against Basel. European failure has accompanied poor domestic form and Liverpool visit Manchester United on Sunday ninth in the Premier League, six points adrift of fourth-placed West Ham United.

Rodgers’ team selection and tactics against Basel attracted fierce criticism, with several former Liverpool players voicing dismay and questioning the manager’s job prospects. The 41-year-old has spoken to members of Fenway Sports Group, Liverpool’s owners, since the Champions League exit and claims they remain “a tight group”. For his growing band of critics, however, there was only a confident riposte from Rodgers before the trip to Old Trafford.

“I think the message from me is clear: I don’t think there would be anyone better to do the job here,” he said. “Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly, I had time to work with players and we took them beyond where the club has been in a long time.

“This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players; we are virtually starting again. I don’t think there is anybody better equipped to deal with that having been here for the last two and a half years and experienced what this club is about and seeing what we get from the players whenever we are at our best. Criticism comes with the territory when you don’t win games. Football is very short term. The same people who are criticising me now were maybe saying I couldn’t do anything wrong six or seven months ago. That is the way football works. You have to accept that as a manager and fight even harder to bring success. This period has ensured I will do that for sure.”

Liverpool spent almost £120m on new players in the summer – the biggest transfer outlay in the club’s history – to strengthen the squad and compensate for Luis Suárez’s departure to Barcelona. Despite that Rodgers claimed after their Champions League exit there were unrealistic expectations on Liverpool and cited the all-too-brief impact of the £20m Lazar Markovic as evidence of young players needing time to adapt.

“His 15-minute cameo the other night was what we have been on at him about since he came in, that aggression and being that dynamic player,” said Rodgers. “But I think that also demonstrates the difficulties of coming to a club of this size at the age of 20 and dealing with the expectation. Slowly they get there.”

The manager’s conviction that he is the best man for the Liverpool job is based on his coaching ability and suitability for the parameters set by FSG at Anfield. Rodgers, who admits his team need to rediscover how to “play without fear”, said: “I’m not going to cry about the situation here. I’m at a club where the model is based on buying players to create them to be world class. That is the model at the football club and you will see from the majority of the players who have come in that is what it’s about.

“The club has employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or a youth player. He will always maximise talents he has and I think last year proved that. This year a new group of players have come in and we have been unfortunate with injuries. The club is in a different place from others but that is something I accept as part of my job here at Liverpool.”

Mario Balotelli could return to the Liverpool squad at Old Trafford having missed six matches with a groin problem and Kolo Touré is also available after injury forced him out of the Basel game. As for reports that Raheem Sterling is unhappy over the terms of a new contract offered by Liverpool, Rodgers said: “There is no unhappiness and I’m sure the contract will be sorted out in time.”

The manager cut a downbeat figure on the eve of the final Champions League game when the defiance that underpinned his approach to United might have been expected. But Rodgers denied that Liverpool’s form and the criticism he has received only seven months after being named the LMA manager of the year has prompted introspection.

“Command is lonely whenever you are at the top end and the leading edge of the game,” he said. “That’s the job from within. I know exactly where we are at. Of course there is a little frustration in terms of where we were for a couple of years and now we are sort of starting again. But it is my job to take responsibility for that. When you are doing well, like last year, then it is down to the players and rightly so, the recruitment is good and everything in the club is good. When you’re doing not so well, then it’s down to the manager. That is football and you learn to deal with that.

“I’ve got to find a way, with the squad of players and the players we have out injured, to release our talent and our football again. That’s the one that is driving me on every single day and I won’t be happy until I get that again. That is something that is driving me on. I certainly don’t doubt myself. I know exactly where we are at and what we would need.”

1)"I don’t think there would be anyone better to do the job here" - Extremely Scary if he thinks he does not need help especially in defensive coaching. He thinks Pascoe and Marsh are good enough. FWIW, I think Rodgers is a decent coach. But he needs help. Ferguson always had capable men working under him. Mourinho always had capable men under him (Just check out the number of his coaches being poached to manage teams.).  I don't know what Rodgers' problem is. He seems to prefer to surround himself with average yes-men.

2)"and we took them beyond where the club has been in a long time" - Whats his definition of long ?  We finished 2nd in the league in 2009. The way he talks about us is that we haven't won anything for dozens of years. A simple history lesson. Houllier won the treble in his third season (Rodgers is in his 3rd season with us....and although logically we can win 3 cups, how many of you are gonna mortgage your house on that ?). Then rafa comes in and wins the champions league and FA cup in his 1st 2 seasons. The king came on later (I am gonna omit the owl's reign for obvious reasons)...and we went to 2 cup finals in his full season (winning one of them). Rodgers is threading on thin ice by making statements like this. He is not a messiah coming over to save us from salvation. And all our recent managers have won something in their 1st few seasons.

3)]"less coaching time" - The comeback line Rodgers always spouts to justify his performance so far. His ability to coach potential players into gems. And that is why he was hired by FSG.  I admit, I thought he really was the big deal when suarez jumped into the world class clique under him. Henderson stepped us. Sterling stepped up. Coutinho stepped us. But wait...... Reina regressed. Agger Regressed. Skrtel regressed. Enrique regressed. Johnson regressed. Mignolet regressed. What does this say ? Rodgers can coach attackers....but gives a $hit about our defensive players ?

And he keeps going on that there were too many games (Europe) and bought too many players this season...so he had less time to coach. Lets look at this. We knew since may 2014 that we qualified for the group stages. So isn't it the coaches job to plan his pre-season and training so that the squad is up to speed in playing tons of games ? And then he also mentions buying a $hit load of player, so lesser time to coach them....well whose fault is that. Everybody was saying we were doing a spurs. But Rodgers didn't have any of that. He mentioned that he was happy with the team we bought. He didn't mention that they needed time to adapt to this team.  So why all of a sudden he mentions we bought too many players ? He is contradicting himself. Buys a lot of players. Qualify for Europe. Then blame lack of coaching time for our bad performance.....

4)"Rodgers claimed after their Champions League exit there were unrealistic expectations on Liverpool and cited the all-too-brief impact of the £20m Lazar Markovic as evidence of young players needing time to adapt"  - He criticised Southampton's ambition for selling their players to us. He warned LVG that he might struggle in this league....These aren't statements from a coach who thinks that we were expected to struggle this season. He is bull$hitting again. He totally expected to do well this season. He even whiten his teeth so that he would look pretty awesome next to the champions league trophy we were gonna win this season  .

The point I am making is...there was no hint of "unrealistic expectations" being placed on this club from all his press interviews before the season. In fact, he was bullish to say the least. And not to lay more into him. But if a club spends $120M....wouldn't there be some sort of expectation from the fans ?

5)"Without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or a youth player" - He sounds totally arrogant. He has got $hit from gerrard this season. He has got $hit from all our youth players he loaned out this season. Surely the best way to get something from our youth players is to keep them here...as squad players (instead of spending tons of $$$ buying squad players). Then spend money on someone senior who improves our team straightaway ? Like Alexandre Lacazette  whom we could have gotten for less than markovic or lallana. And his pay package won't be that much higher.  There are loads of players with European experience with pace and mobility who suit the way we play.

Coming back to my ealier point on squad management, I don't think we would have been worse off if we had wisdom, ibe, illori, coates, texira, suso, alberto, aspas as our squad players. Who knows....aspas might even be banging in the goals as he had a season in this league. But Rodgers bins him after a season along with other players (for differing reasons of course). There is no running away from it. Rodgers has done a $hit job in squad management. He is just a competent coach who has world class PR skills with the Press. But we need a manager.

The more he talks....the more he makes a fool out of himself. Sorry...I just can't see a manager I want in Rodgers.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Narcissistic much    Talking in the third person is never a good sign ,it destroyed David Icke's career as the second coming.
The man has an inordinate fascination with his public persona  ...... I'm starting to cringe every time he takes his seat for
a press conference.

[parchpea]

We can run the club two ways and I honestly think both can work:

1. Stick with a manager and build a strong bond with hope of a long term payoff.
2. Hire and fire, keeps people on their toes, always fresh and pray you eventually you hit the jackpot.

I think Rodgers should be given more time but suspect our owners are in the second of those category's and
ultimately that's all that matters.

Sticking with managers was always the benchmark but as private ownership and foreign investment has taken hold
we see that you can actually replace managers frequently and still be a success so we shouldn't worry too much
either way.

The job was too big for Rodgers from the off but FSG chose to appoint him with that in mind and in anticipation he
would become a top class manager at Liverpool however I don't think they have the stomach for it and its simply
an investment opportunity that they do not want to see lose value.

Its a short term game for them and when Anfield is redeveloped we will be  on the market whether Rodgers is
at the club or not.