Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Plus as a side note I'd like to mention that changing the manager will change nothing. In a couple of years time we'll be back here in the same place listening to the whiners.
Since the turn of the century our fans have whinged their way through CL finals, FA cup finals, League cup finals, UEFA cup finals and second place finishes in the league, they can't help themselves and a disappointing season is almost like manna from heaven for them because they can set their whinge-ometers up to 11.
I knew when I saw some of the personal abuse levelled at Hodgson that this club had changed for the worse, and that was confirmed to me when I saw the amount of stick Kenny took, Kenny was a man who dragged this club up off its knee's in the wake of Heysel and went to 96 funerals after Hillsborough but that meant nothing to the mob frothing at the mouth over the Carroll signing. Now it's Brendan's turn, 12 months after going as close to any Liverpool manager in the last 25 years to winning the title the fans have turned on him in similar vitriolic style.
YNWA

[Santa]

Plus as a side note I'd like to mention that changing the manager will change nothing. In a couple of years time we'll be back here in the same place listening to the whiners.

I understand where you're coming from...I'm sure ManU have the same thinking cap on when they replace Moyes with Van Girl 

You Never Moan Alone 

[only me]

As I said for 18 months he had us playing not just good football but some of the best stuff I have ever seen out of any Liverpool side ever. Sixth isn't great but it's not sackable imo, I didn't think Dalglish should go after finishing eigth so it's a bit rich for me to start calling for someone to go after finishing sixth.
This time last year we missed out on the title by a whisker, imo he hasn't done enough wrong to warrant sacking him just 12 months after going closer to the title than any Liverpool manager in the last quarter of a century.
Does that mean I'm happy with this season or happy with sixth? Of course it doesn't but as I said finishing sixth and getting to 2 semi finals doesn't warrant the sack.
Others may feel differently, that's up to them.

Yakka everyone is entitled to their own opinion but ffs at least address the points raised ,no one said he should be sacked due to us finishing 6th ,it's you talking to yourself.
He should be fired for an epic fck up in team building and preparation this year, For a criminal waste of funds with no return on investment, For lack of preparation (tactics/Mental) for every crucial game we had this season ,for sticking to failing tactics and failing players in wrong positions ,for humiliating the fan base and Liverpool name.

And you know what ,we missed on a title last year because he was unable to bring ONE quality player in the January transfer windows ,another glorious fck up. He has no sense as to the cards at his disposal and what needs to be done to achieve success.

Who gives a fck over 6th place?

Of course where you finish is important, in fact it's the most important thing, everything else is a means to an end.
But I'll address some of your points anyway, let's start with player recruitment.
We know for a fact that when FSG first arrived here they talked about revolutionising how transfers were done in this country and talked about how they couldn't believe how football clubs spent tens of millions on players based on nothing more than one man's opinion (i.e the manager).
After we signed Hendo Comoli was actually in the papers bragging that he was a classic moneyball signing so we know for a fact that the owners don't take a backseat in terms of player recruitment, don't get me wrong I'm not saying they pick the players but they certainly set guidelines.
We also know that Rodgers has made plenty of comments against this philosophy, i.e at the end of last season he said he only wanted 1 or 2 quality players, not a raft of squad players and he also made comments about signing too manny young players.
There's certainly enough circumstantial evidence out there to suggest that the manager hasn't got full control over our transfer dealings and doesn't always agree with some of the decisions made, am I saying he hasn't got an input? Of course not but having an input is not the same as having full control.
Look at the Balotelli situation, it was obvious Brendan didn't want him but the club sensed a bargain and brought him in anyway, the problem with that though is straight away you have dressing room problems, the player knows the manager didn't want him so straight away there's tension.
I'm not saying Rodgers hasn't made mistakes, the way he kept on playing Gerrard as a DM was infuriating but I believe he's had a lot on his plate this season in terms of dressing room squabbles and leaks to the press (Gerrard and Lovren squaring up to each other etc) and I think he has shown enough when things have been going well that he deserves more time.
Considering what he had to deal with - 9 players being brought in, Sturridge out the entire season, dressing room squabbles, Gerrards contract situation and subsequent decision to leave, the new signings not hitting the ground running, Sterling giving unsanctioned interviews to the BBC and wanting to leave, the Balotelli situation, press leaks regarding the role of the transfer committee, mingolets dramatic loss of form etc I think he's done about par.
And imo par isn't enough to lose your job.

I love how you trivialize/minimize the role BR has/had in our signings ,just the sheer fact LFC started a crucial season with not ONE quality striker proves that either BR has no brains or no Balls. In either scenario he should be held accountable. If he was set to fail by this mysterious Cabal transfer committee (which i don't buy for a second) he should have offered his resignation immediately ,We had the poorest striker threat in the whole EPL ,no one in his right mind goes to war with Mario ,Borrini ,Ricky and glass man Sturridge ,it doesn't compute in any shape or form. His other signings/approvals also shed a deep shadow of doubt on his decision making/team building process ,but the strikers epic failure is just inexcusable. I said it pre-season ,if he can't sign a striker he should resign...And i can't even wear my football shoes on the right feet.

As to the rest of the mess you described....Well here is another great example of a manager which just can't keep the ship together ,playing politics ,afraid to take the right/bold decisions ,allowing the dressing room to disintegrate,it's all the manager responsibility thank you for demonstrating why he shouldn't stay.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Some of those old timers in the 70's swore that the price of success would be a costly one, this club has lost its way off the field probably even more than it has on the field.

[only me]

Plus as a side note I'd like to mention that changing the manager will change nothing. In a couple of years time we'll be back here in the same place listening to the whiners.
Since the turn of the century our fans have whinged their way through CL finals, FA cup finals, League cup finals, UEFA cup finals and second place finishes in the league, they can't help themselves and a disappointing season is almost like manna from heaven for them because they can set their whinge-ometers up to 11.
I knew when I saw some of the personal abuse levelled at Hodgson that this club had changed for the worse, and that was confirmed to me when I saw the amount of stick Kenny took, Kenny was a man who dragged this club up off its knee's in the wake of Heysel and went to 96 funerals after Hillsborough but that meant nothing to the mob frothing at the mouth over the Carroll signing. Now it's Brendan's turn, 12 months after going as close to any Liverpool manager in the last 25 years to winning the title the fans have turned on him in similar vitriolic style.
YNWA

The fans are looking for a committed /competitive /positive  groups of players ,they are looking for leadership on the pitch and off the pitch ,they are looking for reasonable decision making and someone which will be responsible for taking us forward. BR crushed us this year ,crushed our dreams ,totally missed on a pivotal season ,a season of opportunity which i doubt will return ,Season marking our return to the CL ,season with unlimited promise due to the flux of funds ,and what did he do? Total failure ,Team building failed ,Trophies none ,Money gone ,Team spirit/pride gone ,nothing could have epitomized the season as the 6-1 brutal bettering at Britannia ,even you couldn't have missed on that symbolism. This is why i love football ,it's simple ,it's beautiful it's brutal ,you can't cheat your way to the top.

[kazza]

Plus as a side note I'd like to mention that changing the manager will change nothing. In a couple of years time we'll be back here in the same place listening to the whiners.
Since the turn of the century our fans have whinged their way through CL finals, FA cup finals, League cup finals, UEFA cup finals and second place finishes in the league, they can't help themselves and a disappointing season is almost like manna from heaven for them because they can set their whinge-ometers up to 11.
I knew when I saw some of the personal abuse levelled at Hodgson that this club had changed for the worse, and that was confirmed to me when I saw the amount of stick Kenny took, Kenny was a man who dragged this club up off its knee's in the wake of Heysel and went to 96 funerals after Hillsborough but that meant nothing to the mob frothing at the mouth over the Carroll signing. Now it's Brendan's turn, 12 months after going as close to any Liverpool manager in the last 25 years to winning the title the fans have turned on him in similar vitriolic style.
YNWA

While I agree with you, Rodgers has not got the best from what he has which is a sign of a good manager. A good manager would not have allowed his team to put in so many weak performances when so much was at stake. Against Stoke we were awful and something is going on behind the scenes. You cannot change the team as easily as you can change the manager, even if it is just to freshen things up. I do love the way we play when playing well and we are far more entertaining than I can remember but the way he lost the team worries me. I am honestly more pessimistic about the next season than I have ever been.

What separates a good footballer from average ones is the same as what separates good managers from average ones... Consistency! Last year's great play means nothing when they can play like yesterday.

[Homebooby]

I've avoided contributing to the inevitable misery that is being repeated here too much, but as it's the end of the season I have to say that I am v. surprised at how things fell apart. Genuinely I had faith in BR and I had faith in the team and I really saw a chance of us repeating the close season in the same way as we did last year. I tried not to jump on the bandwagon at the beginning of the season and was quietly confident that I would be shown to be right as we turned things around post ManU in December. this was always going to be a tough season and I really feel for BR having to navigate the Suarez situation as well as Carra and Stevie in their twilight years and inevitable moving on. To be fair, I thought that he had handled it mostly with aplomb.

Which leads me to the last month or so...quite what has gone wrong I do not know and it has led me to believe that BR has lost the dressing room and that his position is almost untenable. No matter what he does from here on in, he'll be 3 games away from 'sacking headlines' and I don't think the club an afford that. I do not for the life of me understand how any 20 year old can destabilise a club so much and that points to a total lack of control at the club. I cannot imagine Fergie allowing that to happen, nor Van Gaal and certainly no one from the 60's up to Kenny's first departure. It's like the Spice Boys on crack and it needs to have the rot stopped by someone and fast.

If BR had the pull for the big players that we so desperately need to stop us from slipping further down the table, I would be 100% behind him, but honesty prevents me from saying that hand on heart.

If BR had an impressive history of titles and championships to bitchslap any dissenters with, ditto, but that is not the case

If BR was brave enough to bring someone in to work in the bootroom that was more successful than he's been, then that would even be a start ,but I can't see Mr. Pascoe and co going anywhere...this is the gravy train and the best shot they'll most likely ever get......I wouldn't give it up.

Don't get me wrong, when we really play, we play some of the best football I have seen us playing since I was a kid. I love it and point to it as everything that Liverpool stood for and should strive to be....but that isn't enough any more...which bring me back to the initial point

Even if BR does hang on (and lord knows it's the liverpool way) he'll be 3 losses away from the sack from now on and that essentially makes his position untenable.

The only man on the market at the moment who can sort most of the above out is Jurgen Klopp. He's won stuff, he's got credibility coming out of his ears, he's capable of attracting top class players to Liverpool, he should sort out the dissent and get everyone in line, he might even attract Carra back to the club as I think he's keeping his distance until something that looks like it might stand a chance comes along. He's also got the class of a Liverpool manager, watch that last speech he made a couple of days ago....class, class, class, class, class......he'll fit right in.

It pains me to say it, but Brendan stands no chance from now on here....he's become the story as they say and when you're the story, you're over.

[red till i die!!]

All week he has been going on about how he was 150% sure he was going to be here next season and his end of season meeting was just a formality. That performance yesterday showed how much those players are really behind him. In 3 years he has brought no less than 5 strikers in and we played this season mostly without one    Even the makeshift one who he left out as his head wasn't right was probably delighted with himself sat there watching us get demolished.

Take your pay off brendan and then put your name down for the newcastle or westham job 

Lets not forget that Rafa's initial purchases were horrible as well... thats football for you.

During Rafael Benitez' six-year tenure as manager of Liverpool, he oversaw the purchase of 59 players and the depature of 72. Approximately £230,000,000 was spent on players under the leadership of Benitez at an average of approximately £3,900,000 per player, whilst approximately £162,000,000 was recouped from players sales. This equates to a net spend of approximately £68,000,000 on transfers, at an average of £11,300,000 per year.
InEdit
Player From Fee Date
Josemi Malaga £2,000,000 26 July 2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000 17 August 2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20 August 2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20 August 2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 5 January 2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13 January 2005
Scott Carson Leeds £1,000,000 21 January 2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free 4 July 2005
Pepe Reina Villarreal £6,000,000 4 July 2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 4 July 2005
Momo Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14 July 2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20 July 2005
Miki Roque Lleidav Unknown 15 August 2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln £150,000 18 August 2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000 22 August 2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000 20 October 2005
Paul Anderson Hull Swap 1 January 2006
Jan Kromkamp Villarreal Swap 4 January 2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000 12 January 2006
Daniel Agger Brondby £5,800,000 12 January 2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27 January 2006
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 1 July 2006
Gabriel Paletta Banfield £2,000,000 4 July 2006
Fabio Aurelio Valencia Free 5 July 2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26 July 2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18 August 2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21 August 2006
Astrit Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000 11 January 2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Loan 12 January 2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed 24 January 2007
Francisco Manuel Duran Malaga £66,000 30 January 2007
Alvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31 January 2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham Loan 20 February 2007
Lucas Gremio £5,000,000 11 May 2007
Krisztian Nemeth MTK Hungaria Undisclosed 25 May 2007
Mikel San Jose Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28 June 2007
Sebastian Leto Lanús £1,800,000 1 July 2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 4 July 2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free 6 July 2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12 July 2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13 July 2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 9 August 2007
Emiliano Insua Boca Juniors £1,300,000 26 August 2007
Lauri Dalla Valle JIPPO £600,000 8 November 2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11 January 2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £18,600,000 29 February 2008
Philipp Degen Borussia Dortmund Free 3 July 2008
Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 4 July 2008
Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11 July 2008
David N'Gog Paris St Germain £1,500,000 24 July 2008
Robbie Keane Tottenham £19,000,000 28 July 2008
Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000 31 August 2008
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000 26 June 2009
Alberto Aquilani Roma £17,100,000 7 August 2009
Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000 21 August 2009
Daniel Ayala Sevilla £160,000 17 September 2009
Maxi Rodriguez Atletico Madrid Free 12 January 2010
Raheem Sterling Queens Park Rangers £600,000 27 February 2010
Jonjo Shelvey Charlton £1,700,000 10 May 2010
Milan Jovanovic Standard Liege Free 8 July 2010
++

Bobo Zenden anyone ??   :laugh:   

Rafa wasn't responsible for Houliers signings, Kenny wasn't responsible for hodgsons and rodgers isn't responsible for kennys. He has to be held accountable for his own.
When he took over he had a rant about how other managers wasted so much money and that it was going to stop under him. In the end he has gone out and done exactly the same. Those other managers at least knew how to play them but brendan is clueless, He doesn't play to a player strengths and forces them to play his way or they get the highway.

He has had more than enough time to at least lay a solid foundation on which a challenge can be sustained. He said last week that he will correct things and next season we would be capable of a challenge    Does anyone on here seriously think he will ? . Bear in mind that he is saying these things and we are being heavily linked with the likes of milner and ings. Is he having these players forced on him ? Is he fook.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The FA Cup would not have made any difference had he won it, no, no. For us, we were 17th over the second half of the season and Liverpool should not be in that position.

I don’t place the blame on Kenny and assistant Steve Clarke but I think it was obvious to every fan that something was wrong and something needed to be done.
We had a very poor second half to the season last year. You could say the response to Kenny and Steve from the players was lacking, the play was lacking, so that entered into our considerations.

When I first discussed making a change before he took the job, we danced around it and discussed what role he would take at some point. He did say that if it was the manager’s job, he would only do it until we had the right young man to come in for the long term. We spoke two or three times before he actually took the job.
Kenny was always saying no one man is bigger than the club. Everyone knows what it meant when he came back, how he did right the ship and brought all the disparate elements back together. There were a lot of different directions and he unified the club internally and externally; he did an incredible job of getting us all on the same page.

That Suarez situation did not really play a part (In Dalglish’s sacking). It did not come into play. No one man is bigger than the club and no one issue is going to determine the long-term viability of the club. We had a very poor second half to the season last year. You could say the response to Kenny and Steve from the players was lacking, the play was lacking, so that entered into our considerations.

John Henry 2012

Sometimes with big businesses precedents are set that can only be played out to the letter the next time a similar situation arises ,FSG would have to do a massive U
turn for this to be disregarded ,any decision to retain the manager would be viewed by the fans  as disingenuous on their behalf.

[7_Kewell]

Kenny was sacked for less and for this reason alone I think BR will go in the next week or two.

Our owners will have been watching all of this and I don't think they will trust BR with anymore money.

What's more, replacing him will never be cheaper with 3-4 decent managers available.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I've avoided contributing to the inevitable misery that is being repeated here too much, but as it's the end of the season I have to say that I am v. surprised at how things fell apart. Genuinely I had faith in BR and I had faith in the team and I really saw a chance of us repeating the close season in the same way as we did last year. I tried not to jump on the bandwagon at the beginning of the season and was quietly confident that I would be shown to be right as we turned things around post ManU in December. this was always going to be a tough season and I really feel for BR having to navigate the Suarez situation as well as Carra and Stevie in their twilight years and inevitable moving on. To be fair, I thought that he had handled it mostly with aplomb.

Which leads me to the last month or so...quite what has gone wrong I do not know and it has led me to believe that BR has lost the dressing room and that his position is almost untenable. No matter what he does from here on in, he'll be 3 games away from 'sacking headlines' and I don't think the club an afford that. I do not for the life of me understand how any 20 year old can destabilise a club so much and that points to a total lack of control at the club. I cannot imagine Fergie allowing that to happen, nor Van Gaal and certainly no one from the 60's up to Kenny's first departure. It's like the Spice Boys on crack and it needs to have the rot stopped by someone and fast.

If BR had the pull for the big players that we so desperately need to stop us from slipping further down the table, I would be 100% behind him, but honesty prevents me from saying that hand on heart.

If BR had an impressive history of titles and championships to bitchslap any dissenters with, ditto, but that is not the case

If BR was brave enough to bring someone in to work in the bootroom that was more successful than he's been, then that would even be a start ,but I can't see Mr. Pascoe and co going anywhere...this is the gravy train and the best shot they'll most likely ever get......I wouldn't give it up.

Don't get me wrong, when we really play, we play some of the best football I have seen us playing since I was a kid. I love it and point to it as everything that Liverpool stood for and should strive to be....but that isn't enough any more...which bring me back to the initial point

Even if BR does hang on (and lord knows it's the liverpool way) he'll be 3 losses away from the sack from now on and that essentially makes his position untenable.

The only man on the market at the moment who can sort most of the above out is Jurgen Klopp. He's won stuff, he's got credibility coming out of his ears, he's capable of attracting top class players to Liverpool, he should sort out the dissent and get everyone in line, he might even attract Carra back to the club as I think he's keeping his distance until something that looks like it might stand a chance comes along. He's also got the class of a Liverpool manager, watch that last speech he made a couple of days ago....class, class, class, class, class......he'll fit right in.

It pains me to say it, but Brendan stands no chance from now on here....he's become the story as they say and when you're the story, you're over.

Good post mate, better than the usual vitriolic personal shyte you read on here.
We all knew what we were getting when we went for Rodgers, after Hodgson and Kenny the common consensus seemed to be that we needed a fresh approach. Everyone accepted that he was the same age as Ryan Giggs, that he hadn't had much top flight experience and that he would make mistakes.
Well we got exactly what was on the tin, we got 18 months of terrific football mixed in with some poor runs of form and we also got the type of gaffe's young managers invariably make when someone shoves a microphone under their nose.
Rodgers is like a young player,  he is not the finished article and he's learning as he goes along.
I think he has shown enough promise to warrant another season, he has quite clearly lost the dressing room but a lot of the players he has fallen out with like Balotelli and Sterling probably won't be there next season, neither will big characters like Gerrard, Lucas and Johnson so he will have the opportunity to stamp his authority on the place.
As I have said, in those 18 months from January 2013 to last May I not only saw some great football but some of the best football that I have ever seen out of any Liverpool side and I go way back to the mid 70's. I want to be 100% completely sure that Rodgers is not the real deal before I'd let him go, he had a lot on his plate this season which may have affected his performance, he is inexperienced after all, so I'd give him another year.

[kartiek]

I don't think we can expect Rodgers to build a solid team that will challenge consistently here at Liverpool. There have been times under him when we have been phenomenal. But one has to wonder how much of this was simply down to Luis Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling playing out of their skins. Have we ever been able to organize our defense in a solid way under Rodgers? Has the midfield ever really functioned as a well honed unit under him? Have we purchased players of the right quality to fill the gaps even? I'm not sure, and these things have been consistently poor under Rodgers.

I think we need a solid manager now. Someone who has a vision for not just the attack, but also the defense and the midfield and knows how to organize a team. I don't know much about Klopp because I really don't watch German football but you've got to ask why Dortmund have fared so poorly this season? I want stability and I sort of like the idea of having Rafa back.

[C-R]

Being printed in 2 papers...

Media being briefed that the Liverpool end of season review won't include discussion on Brendan Rodgers' position as manager.

[RedAnt]

I reckon that if you boil off all the excuses and look at Rodgers handling of our squad in training, motivation, media handling, team tactics and selection and probably other areas that don't spring to mind right now, then his overall achievements are really quite poor. Imagine if Wenger, Maureen, Ferguson, probably even Allardyce or Hughes had been in charge this year. Assuming they didn't want to sabotage us, how would the season have gone?
Blaming transfer committees and players is cheap. As is using Gerrard as an excuse. I imagine a lot of managers would have gotten more out of Balotelli. Failing that, they'd dump him and get someone else. If the committee or owners blocked the attempt, the manager would go nuts. Why not Rodgers? Too weak? Not brave enough to make himself heard? Rather his own head on the block?

How about the poorly utilised Gerrard? Had he been used correctly, who knows what we'd achieve? What would be the knock on effects? Gerrard gaining confidence, starting to influence again, driving the team on. Other teams take note and worry. Good players want in. Or maybe not. Maybe he'd not be so good. The manager would drop him. Replace him. Right? Or did the computer/committee/board/owners say no?

All the pondering aside, it comes to match day, selecting the right players in the right positions from the squad available (letting the cr*p/old ones warm the bench/play in reserves) then motivating them to go out and win the game. Like I said before, BR can't even do the basics.

[C-R]

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