Espionage wrote:Yet none of them have enough of a brain to realise that Liverpool have had the best defensive record in the league over the past 3 or 4 years using that system.
Owzat wrote:Espionage wrote:Yet none of them have enough of a brain to realise that Liverpool have had the best defensive record in the league over the past 3 or 4 years using that system.
Oooops, someone else claiming we have the best defensive record without checking facts - rather silly to accuse them of not having enough of a brain when walking straight into a ninny trap of making inaccurate claims (oh irony is sweet)
Premiership Goals Conceded - Past 3 years (reverse order)
Chelsea : 26+24+22 = 72
Liverpool : 28+27+25 = 80
Man Utd : 22+27+34 = 83
Premiership Goals Conceded - Past 4 years (reverse order)
Chelsea : 26+24+22+15 = 87
Liverpool : 28+27+25+41 = 121
Man Utd : 22+27+34+26 = 109
WHOOPS!
And if you're thinking there may be reprieve if you fiddle with the original statement over which years, Chelsea have conceded less Premiership goals than us EVERY season since Rafa arrived - 15 to our 17 this season if you want to squeeze in this season as well. Maybe you could claim that we conceded less goals than anyone else during one of our runs of clean sheets :rolleyes: Of course if you removed all our goals conceded by virtue of zonal marking alone, that record may well be lower than Chelsea's................... Who should be marking Cahill? Anyone? Two goals straight away down to poor/no marking. Replay with Kuyt man2man on Cahill = no goals from set-pieces, just a silly goal from poor defending late into extra time.
In a way you've proved something, people will believe what someone else feeds them when it suits them. We are lucky at times, scoring late winners etc, but it does involve some skill as much as any goal at any time does. The sequence can often point towards luck, if you score three goals quickly after the break then it's luckier than if you score three goals in the first half. The mancs are the exception, the media are so far up their Rs they rarely need luck to do anything - their diving, fouling, barracking the ref, play-acting etc is all 'skill'. Quite how the manc fans can sit on their high horses about how 'superior' they are (had it from a colleague the other day - pr@t), when they needed to spend lots of money and cheat in order to be the best, I will never know.
Zonal marking is a problem, like it or not. It's not that we concede lots of goals, but the goals we concede are sloppy and down to poor or non-existent marking - often from set-pieces. Switch off your mind to the fact people blame it every time and switch on your mind to the fact that we could be many points better off if the silly defensive mistakes were eradicated. No silly equaliser against the bitters, no silly equaliser against Wigan, probably still in the FA Cup and probably more if I could be bothered to look back further. And how many near misses do we get away with at the back on top of the silly goals? Our defensive record is pretty good, partly because we have a lot of the ball in games, but also because the opposition don't score all their chances same as us.
We have one of these type threads to try and "put the media/dissenters straight", but frankly it's no more informed, true or even accurate in it's portrayal of things than that which it sets out to put straight. We know the media loves to dismiss all things Liverpool as lucky, that zonal marking is a bad neighbour, but what you (all) need to realise is that is what the rest of the country/world wants to read, see and hear. Since Liverpool fans don't/shouldn't buy the s*n, why should that rag look to appeal to us? In the same way this thread sits nicely with it's readers because it is what they want to believe, the portrayal of us by the media sits nicely with most of the rest.
Owzat wrote:Starting line-ups, tactics, substitutions, needing late goals and treatment of players are seriously big question marks over Rafa's head.
So what if we went top for 24 hours? Some of us prematurely celebrated being top weeks ago and look where that got us - second............
Espionage wrote:Owzat wrote:Starting line-ups, tactics, substitutions, needing late goals and treatment of players are seriously big question marks over Rafa's head.
Starting line ups - maybe
Tactics - no
substitutions - Managers subs are always questioned when things go wrong
Needing late goals - Same as everyone
Treatment of player - Maybe
So thats two maybes, one no and two that are the same as everyone one else.
Espionage wrote:Owzat wrote:So what if we went top for 24 hours? Some of us prematurely celebrated being top weeks ago and look where that got us - second............
Speak for yourself, who is us anyway? Furthermore, you prematurely celebrating had no effect on how our team performed, Man united's good form combined with our bad form and bad luck put as there. Lets not call things what they are not.
Espionage wrote:Hey i edited pretty quick
Owzat wrote:Espionage wrote:Owzat wrote:Starting line-ups, tactics, substitutions, needing late goals and treatment of players are seriously big question marks over Rafa's head.
Starting line ups - maybe
Tactics - no
substitutions - Managers subs are always questioned when things go wrong
Needing late goals - Same as everyone
Treatment of player - Maybe
So thats two maybes, one no and two that are the same as everyone one else.
In your opinion. How his tactics are right needs a lot more than a "no". When do Rafa's subs go right before Pompey?Espionage wrote:Owzat wrote:So what if we went top for 24 hours? Some of us prematurely celebrated being top weeks ago and look where that got us - second............
Speak for yourself, who is us anyway? Furthermore, you prematurely celebrating had no effect on how our team performed, Man united's good form combined with our bad form and bad luck put as there. Lets not call things what they are not.
"Us" being some of the people on this forum and indeed globally - didn't require rocket science to work that one out. Personally I had muted celebration since I was all too aware the mancs had games in hand and could not be written off. Of course it had no effect on the team's performance, did I say it did? But YOUR starter mentions us going top, I was pointing out the lack of significance or relevance in the greater scheme of things.
And what "bad luck" have we had? Cite injuries and I can point to Man Utd losing Rooney and Ferdinand recently. And why shouldn't we call things they are not when you do? By my reckoning I call things as they are, it's YOU who's dressing it up in the way that suits you. You stated a fact that was incorrect to start with, and now you're adding "bad luck" to a host of irrelevancies.
You state my/our "prematurely celebrating had no effect on how our team performed" yet somehow you feel strongly enough about what others say about us to post a long whinge.
Funnily enough what windbags like Andy Gray and company say about us had "no effect on how our team performed" either. You are trying to make out they are bang out of order when they hit as many valid points as members on here. Bury your head in the sand, nitpick over who "they" and "we" refer to and reply to me in a way totally reflecting your own point of view and pretending like the gaping holes in your argument aren't there
Shame this isn't the BBC 606 boards, I bet you'd have edited your post and deleted mine Feel free to reply, this thread ran its course the last time someone threw their toys out the pram over similar "issues". It doesn't discuss anything not discussed before or in other threads - zonal marking, luck etc. I've read it, it was probably a waste of my time bothering to point out the errors and obvious flaws, and there's little more to say since all you can do now is disagree - shocker that!
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