Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

So are you saying that all managers would play Lucas and Mashca in the center of park starving Stevie of Nando of any decent passes. I highly doubt that.
Are you also saying that all managers woudl openly criticise their senior players instead of maybe looking at themsleve sin the mirror and putting there hand up to tactical naiivity, again I doubt it.

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

You're making yourself look silly Heimy.

Rafa is widely accepted to be THE man when it comes to tactics. Of all the things you level at him - that one is the daftest.

[Kopite-Jud]

We are playing poorly at the minuite, we need financial backing for more depth, i believe the Alonso sale was a mistake (trying to replace him with Barry was a joke) dont know the reasons or motives behind that. We cannot win a single game at the min, the whole team are playing with their heads down, we cannot point the finger at one individual but the whole team need to look at the badge on their shirts and realise they are playing for the most prestigeous club in history of english football and be honoured to play for that club and work their socks off, because the team looks like they cannot be arsd playin. Another point i would like to point out is the Gerrard / Torres injuries, makes me sick how people call us a two man team.. Gerrard best centre mid in the world? Torres best striker in the world? what ever team they played for... Real, Utd , Chelsea , Barca, they would supply most of the goals and if they were injured for any of these teams... like for us they would be a MASSIVE loss for anyteam.

[bigmick]

I think that it's fairly clear we are a better team than 8th, and I've no doubts we will find some form and look like a good team again before too long. Hopefully that run will take us back up into the top four, and we can make a stab at the cups.

As for the short to medium term solutions to our problems, well they are largely centered I think around the fact that we have a couple too many players who add very little to proceedings but clutter up the squad. The likes of Dossena, arguably Lucas, Deggen, arguably Babel, Voronin, perhaps N'Gog etc etc etc are players who it is hard to convince yourself that they are ever going to be good enough. I think to rectify this we should use a two prongued approach. We should start listening to offers for them and fee up some space, perhaps swallowing the fact along the way that in many cases we are going to have to take a big financial hit. In the meantime, as squad players we should start shoving a few of these promising kids on the bench. They may not be up to it either, but at least they have the virtue of possibility that they might be one day. The likes of Pachecho ought to be getting five and ten minute cameos, because I cannot believe he would offer less than some of our squad players.

And then clearly we are going to have to buy again. The money for that is going to have to in all probability be generated from player sales, and the sale of Masherano needs to be handled properly in order to get a big fee in. If we could get 25-30 mill for him, and maybe 10-15 mill for the Doss, Babel, Voronin, Deggen and Lucas combined, then at least we can go looking. Sunderland had three players playing yesterday who they bought for 22 million quid who would ALL improve our squad, a couple of them significantly, so the players are out there if you look.

[Kopite-Jud]

Too add to my point i believe Christian Nemeth is an outstanding youngster who needs to be given a chance like Michael Owen got his chance by Roy Evans people within the team need more competition and need to stop taking their places for granted and remember who they are playing for.

[bigmick]

No, you leave the manager where he is. You support him and you support the team, and you just hope that when the big players come back, and when Aquilani gets going, we can make a run at a trophy or two.

As for the manager and his record/achievements, well that debates been done many times. No doubt as time goes on some people will revisit their stance and wonder if they called it right or not. It matters not a jot either way whether any of us did really, as we now have a very powerful manager with a huge backroom staff, a squad and academy full of his recruits, and a massive contract which will need paying whether or not he is at the helm. For my part I made my call some time ago and unsurprisingly I suppose I don't think I'll be for changing it anytime soon.

Not sure if thats one off your sly swipes or not mate?  If so you should have quoted.
Nothing is set in stone mate, especially opinion.
Its not about being right or wrong or who knows the most,or even who deserves all the credit for calling a 50/50 right.
You back the manager untill a time comes that you think we could get someone else in who could do a better job. Now that time will come to us at different times if not at all, its not about well i thought that last week or last year so that means I know more than you.
FTR I dont think we should be letting go off the boss just yet, but if something drastic was to happen and baring in mind we cant afford to splash the cash, we could do a lot worse than Hodgson.
I just thought I would be the first to put it out there, so if it becomes a "mainstream" opinion I can claim all the credit and bragging rights.
Are we so different?

Sorry Rushie missed this. No sly swipe, I actually rate Hodgson too as it goes. No I was just saying generally that I think changing a manager mid season is rarely the way to go. That said if we fell by the wayside and were going nowhere by Jan/Feb, I suppose you could make a case then for getting a bloke in to see what he's dealing with for the following season.

TBPH though I don't think it will come to that. I think we'll come back soon and look like a good team again.

[Reg]

Lets be realistic.... at this stage of a NORMAL season yes we're in the warm stuff.

But I dont think this is a normal season and we'll see the top 4 lose many moe games this season.

Its difficult to stay positive... again... but hang on in there lads. A season is never over by mid october.

[Red_lass]

its a combination of a lot of things. in short

team 08/09 - Alonso + (new team/(form+injuries)) = bad day

ok i'm bad at math, truth is this team has not totally come together. Rafa has gone out to replace his team as he sees fit but injuries and form come into play. we will see how this season pans out once the team gels.

[Rush Job]

The mancs and Lyon up next.
Lose to the mancs and operation CL starts early this year.

[Owzat]

How bad is it? Well here's some stats :

PREMIERSHIP STARTS UNDER RAFA

06/07 P9 PTS 11
05/06 P9 PTS 13
09/10 P9 PTS 15
04/05 P9 PTS 16
07/08 P9 PTS 19
08/09 P9 PTS 23

So our 09/10 start is worse than Rafa's first season with the excuse come myth of Rafa having inherited a poor side exposed bigtime. Only in 93/94 did we lost more Premiership games in the first nine, our Premiership average defeats after nine games is 2.38. The most disappointing aspect is who we've beaten and lost to

LOST (5) : Fiorentina, Tottenham, Sunderland, A Villa, Chelsea
WON (7) : Debrecen, Leeds, Hull, Stoke, Burnley, West Ham, Bolton

No great surprise we've not beaten any of the sides currently above us, or that of the seven sides we've beaten, one is a League One side and two are in the relegation zone with a fourth being a side with little Champions League credentials that we scraped past 1-0.

Do not write off the possibility of us losing the next two games to go 7-7 in terms of wins and losses, isn't the Lyon game on Tuesday?

By the way, did the beachball get MOTM or was it the referee and his assistants for not knowing the rules? We should really appeal the result, the ref really should be suspended like mr three yellows was, the Liverpool fan will probably end up in hospital if not the morgue and there should be a stewards enquiry lead by whiskeynose regarding how we topped his stoppage time.

[lakes10]

ok so SSN and BBC are reporting that Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are fit and will be in the team for the CL game.

i tried not to think they were rested for the last game but now i am feeling there might haver been some truth in it...............has Rafa gone back to his old ways, he knows the prem is over so he is going for the CL to save his job?.......he better bloody not be.

[Scottbot]

We are playing poorly at the minuite, we need financial backing for more depth, i believe the Alonso sale was a mistake (trying to replace him with Barry was a joke) dont know the reasons or motives behind that.

Failing to replace Alonso with Barry was the joke you mean. We'd be in far better shape if the club had ended it's pursuit of Gareth Barry with a successful conclusion.

[Scottbot]

Are we down and out? We're certainly down but not quite out. It could all change in the next 10 days though, Lyon at home, the mancs at home and then Arsenal away. We could be dead and buried in one competition and seriously wounded in the other if those three results go against us. Last season we went to Old Trafford for a must win game and pulled it off, and that pretty much galvanised the lads for a fantastic run in to end the season. We've got to hope for a similar situation next Sunday.

It's not much fun this season is it

[Kopite-Jud]

least we seem to have cut out the stupid draw's

[NANNY RED]

ok so SSN and BBC are reporting that Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are fit and will be in the team for the CL game.

i tried not to think they were rested for the last game but now i am feeling there might haver been some truth in it...............has Rafa gone back to his old ways, he knows the prem is over so he is going for the CL to save his job?.......he better bloody not be.

Lakes dont be so stupid. What you have posted there is laughable, an im getting fed up with the lot of it . i suppose he also had a word with the pilot an Argentina airlines to delay the plane so Javier an Insua didnt arrive back until late friday night, What youve just said there is fecking ridiculas

[Sir Roger]

least we seem to have cut out the stupid draw's