Liverpool FC Forum

[leeroy74]

no not long term, just for the rest of this season though.

[devaney]

Personally I would give it to Lucas now. Henderson's performance yesterday showed why he is not up to the job. How the fk could he inspire anybody ?? When he opens his mouth I fall asleep !!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Mate I was at the Augsborg game the other night and he sh#t himself every time they put in a high ball. I'm talking about straight balls down the pitch which the CB should win 8-9 times out of 10. He didn't even challenge for some of them, simply couldn't judge the flight of the ball which for me rules him out of being a longterm option at the back.

We aren't Barcelona with 70% possession in games getting away with playing Masherano there. We come under pressure a lot in games and in my opinion he'd be targeted and exposed time and again in this league.

Don't disagree that he had a good game v West Ham (overall) or against City. But long term just not for me.

Again Im afraid I am going to have to disagree mate, Lucas isn't the tallest but he is good in the air because like a lot of shorter players who are good with their heads (Keegan, Cahill etc) he has good timing so Im sorry but I just don't buy this argument that he can't judge the flight of a ball. As I said West Ham threw the kitchen sink at us in that FA cup game and if he can cope against Carroll, Collins et al he can cope against anyone.
Just because someone is tall doesn't automatically make them good at defending crosses, you need positional awareness too, just look at how many crosses Lucas cuts out at the near post, he doesn't just stand next to the CF waiting to battle it out one on one Skrtel-style, Lucas is pro-active and tries to shut down the cross before it gets into the danger zone.
Give me game intelligence and positional awareness over height any day.

[leeroy74]

crouch is testament to that. 9 foot 52 inch tall but can't head a ball and regularly got out jumped by a lot smaller player.

[JC_81]

Fair enough mate.

However not once have I made reference to Lucas' height. Cannavaro was probably the best CB of his generation and was under 6 foot.

I think he struggles to cope with the high ball but we may get the chance over the course of the rest of the season to see who is right on this one. We are away to Palace next weekend. I'll be interested to see if Klopp plays him CB that game, and if so I'd be even more interested to see how he copes.

He'll do as well as anyone we've got at CB against City again on Wednesday, in my opinion, because they offer little aerial threat except for at set pieces.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Fair enough mate.

However not once have I made reference to Lucas' height. Cannavaro was probably the best CB of his generation and was under 6 foot.

I think he struggles to cope with the high ball but we may get the chance over the course of the rest of the season to see who is right on this one. We are away to Palace next weekend. I'll be interested to see if Klopp plays him CB that game, and if so I'd be even more interested to see how he copes.

He'll do as well as anyone we've got at CB against City again on Wednesday, in my opinion, because they offer little aerial threat except for at set pieces.

We've looked dodgy in the air at the back for years even with tallish CB's playing mainly because our defenders lack positional awareness, it's actually not that often that someone out jumps one of our CB's to score, usually it's more of a case of someone drifting into that space between our centre halves or peeling off un-noticed to the far post.
When we concede from set pieces 9 times out of 10 it's usually a case of poor marking and poor organisational skills rather than any of our players being physically out jumped. Mind you the keeper being a flapper hasn't helped the likes of Skrtel and Co. over the years either.
As I said one thing about Lucas is he is aware of what is going on around him which is something we've missed since Carragher retired, we've got plenty of tall athletic CB's but none of them can read the game, they are all re-active not pro-active, they react to things instead of anticipating them.

[UvS xR4GEx]

Agger was the worst at defending set pieces as much as I love the guy. He had the height but he was unaware of what was happening around him.
Lucas won about 3/4 important headers from set plays yesterday.. I don't think that area in his game will be as much of a negative as people think.

[Thommo's perm]

Depends what youre looking for in a captain?
If its determination, desire, passion, skill, bravery, confidence, the ability to inspire and lead then none of the current squad come anywhere near

[Penguins]

Which is why you need world class players. It then becomes a hell of a lot easier to give the armband to a suitable player.

[number 8 ynwa]

Bring ALONSO back and make him captain!

[only me]

Fair enough mate.

However not once have I made reference to Lucas' height. Cannavaro was probably the best CB of his generation and was under 6 foot.

I think he struggles to cope with the high ball but we may get the chance over the course of the rest of the season to see who is right on this one. We are away to Palace next weekend. I'll be interested to see if Klopp plays him CB that game, and if so I'd be even more interested to see how he copes.

He'll do as well as anyone we've got at CB against City again on Wednesday, in my opinion, because they offer little aerial threat except for at set pieces.

We've looked dodgy in the air at the back for years even with tallish CB's playing mainly because our defenders lack positional awareness, it's actually not that often that someone out jumps one of our CB's to score, usually it's more of a case of someone drifting into that space between our centre halves or peeling off un-noticed to the far post.
When we concede from set pieces 9 times out of 10 it's usually a case of poor marking and poor organisational skills rather than any of our players being physically out jumped. Mind you the keeper being a flapper hasn't helped the likes of Skrtel and Co. over the years either.
As I said one thing about Lucas is he is aware of what is going on around him which is something we've missed since Carragher retired, we've got plenty of tall athletic CB's but none of them can read the game, they are all re-active not pro-active, they react to things instead of anticipating them.

I find it hard to believe the answer to our CB problem lies in the provisional solution placing and aging mediocre football player in a position he isn't familiar with. As to Lucas awareness oh well one just has to be reminded of all the fouls he gives in the box areas...Lucas played his part in closing a temporary gap i can't believe this is becoming a discussion over a potential long term solution.

[johnbarnes]

Lucas has proved that he is adaptable by being able to play in front of the back 4 and in the back 4.
His versatility has just saved LFC and Klopp a few $$$ - He has forced himself into a strong position at the club and for the team.
Lucas' attitude as been one of a leader which Klopp will admire and will keep him at the club probably until he retires...
Who should take the credit? Klopp or Benitez?

[only me]

Lucas has proved that he is adaptable by being able to play in front of the back 4 and in the back 4.
His versatility has just saved LFC and Klopp a few $$$ - He has forced himself into a strong position at the club and for the team.
Lucas' attitude as been one of a leader which Klopp will admire and will keep him at the club probably until he retires...

If you want a Mid-Table LFC then sure keep him play him till he retires....I know watching the like's of Hendo places Lucas in much different light but end of the day he is the face of mediocre Liverpool ,gives his heart but no real quality.

[johnbarnes]

Lucas has proved that he is adaptable by being able to play in front of the back 4 and in the back 4.
His versatility has just saved LFC and Klopp a few $$$ - He has forced himself into a strong position at the club and for the team.
Lucas' attitude as been one of a leader which Klopp will admire and will keep him at the club probably until he retires...

If you want a Mid-Table LFC then sure keep him play him till he retires....I know watching the like's of Hendo places Lucas in much different light but end of the day he is the face of mediocre Liverpool ,gives his heart but no real quality.

But I didn't suggest to keep him and play him. Define 'play him.'
WE NEED a huge squad with balance to be able to compete in all competitions.
Lucas can be a part of that squad. That's all.
We all know he isn't the 2nd coming!

[JC_81]

I was just thinking about our current lack of leaders compared to some of our past sides.

Take Rafa's 2008-09 side that came second in the league.

Reina, Arbeloa, Agger/Skrtel, Carra,  Aurelio, Mascherano, Alonso, Riera/Benayoun, Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres.

Of those Reina, Agger, Carra, Masch, Alonso, Kuyt and Gerrard were all natural leaders. That's the difference. Even Benayoun had captained Israel and Torres had captained Athletico even though I didn't personally see them as leaders. We also had Lucas on the bench but if some are advocating him as captain now, look how far down the pecking order in terms of leadership (albeit a less experienced version of him) he sits in a proper side.

The difference is phenomenal.