Liverpool FC Forum

[red_guy]

Well, if we keep playing like that, a guaranteed NO CL spot for us. When will we ever learn.... 

[shawnk]

If Aquilani was playing and settled people wouldn't be moaning about Xabi going. Whether his absence is down to fitness or him not fitting in who knows but it is definitley a factor that has contributed to the current state of things. Rafa is going to have to go back to the drawing board in the summer and address this.

PS Anyone see Slaven Bilic on MOTD. He looks like he wants to get out of there already.

I hope Rafa is not around anymore in the summer. Really appreciate the 08/09 team, the best attacking and come back team in a long long while. Was so much interesting to watch and always confident the team would come back from behind.

But now, we are going back and some fans are already getting content with Europa League and most will be happy if we win the four horse race for fourth spot. The performance/target this season is way way off, it's understandable if it's just slightly off the pace due to luck/injury. But the kind of performance we are witnessing is just horrible.

[Owzat]

Hate to burst bubbles but while we may have been 10 points better off in the league last season we had scored EXACTLY the same number of goals and had kept only ONE more clean sheet. We didn't start playing attacking football until Rafa realised we had to, we'd gone from top to clinging on in a matter of two months. And while we did score 34 goals in 11 games last season, that did include wins against West Ham, West Brom (relegated), Hull (nearly relegated), Blackburn, Fulham, a freak 5-1 over villa, a bizarre 4-1 win over the mancs and a win over Sunderland.

Why aren't we more attacking? Because Rafa's 'strength' is counter-tactics, he sets out to stop the opposition rather than find ways to unlock their defence. He looks at their strengths and builds a team that can counter them, not look at their weaknesses and a team that can exploit them. While all three subs yesterday were attacking players, the players taken off were as well. Rafa's precious Lucas-Mascherano centre was preserved, Rafa frightened to death Citeh would win it and gain three points on us, more than he was looking to take three points off them and put us in box seat. He claimed he wanted to win, but did his actions suggest that? Sure his first substitution was a little earlier than normal, but FIFTEEN MINUTES for Torres and a handful for Aquilani - how were they going to achieve anything in that time?

Both sides may have wanted to win yesterday, but neither were willing to take any risks and certainly did not want to lose. I bet secretly Rafa had a few wa nks over the result yesterday, not quite perfect but another precious clean sheet and we didn't lose. That was our 99th clean sheet in the Premiership under Rafa, a shame it was also our 52nd draw in just 217 games (1 in 4 give or take) If Rafa is happy to take his chances with our remaining fixtures then his PROMISE/GUARANTEE we'll finish 4th may get exposed for the hot air it was/is. We have to play the mancs and Chelsea again, we also have a few other games that could test us like Burnley, Wigan, Brum and Hull.

As per last season, our finishing in the desired position is out of our hands (again) As it was last season, it isn't losing to top sides that is costing us but the inability to beat sides like Porsmouth, Wolves and Stoke, and the fault lies with the manager whose (all too defensive) approach is not condusive to playing to stop a side one week and thrash one the next, it makes for predominantly laboured results and without goals from Gerrard (and Torres) there simply aren't enough goals. Don't get me wrong, I don't single out Torres' injury for a convenient excuse because he's played more times in the league this season than at the same time last season - 12 goals in 16 apps this season compared to eight goals in 15 apps last season (after 27 games) And for comparison, Gerrard has scored five goals in 22 league apps this season, he had scored nine in 23 apps at the same stage last season. Those now turning to Benayoun's absence should be made aware he has scored five league goals in 21 apps this season, he'd scored only TWICE in 23 apps last season. We have the same problems we had last season, made worse by our defence leaking goals. Still 1/3 of our league goals came in the 6-1 and two 4-0s earlier in the season, Kuyt comes in for much flak but he's scored two more goals than at this stage of last season, the problem is that too few others score goals from a midfield containing players like Mascherano, Lucas, Babel, Riera, Aquilani and Rodriguez, yet people STILL want to drop Kuyt who is about the only one scoring goals!!!! Maybe Kuyt is no Rooney, but us dropping Kuyt would be like the mancs dropping Rooney in terms of their goals and results.

We need to ditch one of the DMs, play quick passing which if the players can't after doing it in training for solid sessions then they need to be shipped out. We need to retain possession better and get more bodies in the box, perhaps even ditch Carra from FB as that is just excessively defensive and I can see us going back to the days of four CBs at the back. We won't win the league playing counter-attacking football with little creativity, some people refuse to write-off our prospects of the league under Rafa despite this obvious failing. We've won 13 league games this season, we've failed to win 14. While Chelsea and the mancs have shown weaknesses, they have both won five or more games than us over the course of just 27 games. It is little wonder there is a nine point gap between 3rd and 4th and we're not even in 4th, in fact we're a full TEN points worse off than at this point last season with failures in both domestic cups and the major European competition. Next season eh?

[roberto green]

to be fair that scoreline against Madrid was a bit flattering... we played solid defensively but offensively, everything just fell in place for us, such that for every defensive mistake they made we managed to score a goal. I preferred our performance against the mancs where we won 4-1.

It didn't flatter us by no means.It could of easy been double the score for us in that game.

I think what has happened of late is that Rafa had tried his offensive football last year and begining of this year and with some of our injuries it is no longer working so he goes back to his negatitive if all else fails we will get a point policy.

[Boocity]

Lets be honest about this, we only played attacking football the last quarter of last season when we were comfortable for a UCL place and it was caution to the wind to go for the title, If we take the 4th spot this season, does anyone really think its going to change next season? No, not while Rafa persists with two defensive midfielders and going into games thinking we must not lose. What we have at the moment is Rafa taking his UCL away game plan and putting it in the EPL. Everyone talks about if Aquaman will be any good, well we are never going to find out as long as he sits on the bench and only gets the odd game when Rafa feels we can possibly win.

[Boocity]

Did anyone see what Bilic said about our system on MOTD2 last night, didn't see it but heard he talked sense. Anyone know what he said.

[Dundalk]

Liverpool have won just two of their last 11 away matches in the Premier League, failing to score in seven

[bunglemark2]

It's refreshing to hear the likes of Bilic. Not afraid to say it like it is....not like the other zombies on MOTD...

[Boocity]

It's refreshing to hear the likes of Bilic. Not afraid to say it like it is....not like the other zombies on MOTD...

What did he say???

[stmichael]

Did anyone see what Bilic said about our system on MOTD2 last night, didn't see it but heard he talked sense. Anyone know what he said.

was talking about our reluctance to get our fullbacks forward. yesterday that was true but it's not a criticism that can be labelled at us all season. carragher isn't a fullback and so is always going to go for the safety first option and pass it square when he gets past the half way line. as for insua, only gerrard has got more assists in our side this season.

[Boocity]

Did anyone see what Bilic said about our system on MOTD2 last night, didn't see it but heard he talked sense. Anyone know what he said.

was talking about our reluctance to get our fullbacks forward. yesterday that was true but it's not a criticism that can be labelled at us all season. carragher isn't a fullback and so is always going to go for the safety first option and pass it square when he gets past the half way line. as for insua, only gerrard has got more assists in our side this season.

Thanks, true about Carra, will be the same until Johnson is back

[heimdall]

Did anyone see what Bilic said about our system on MOTD2 last night, didn't see it but heard he talked sense. Anyone know what he said.

was talking about our reluctance to get our fullbacks forward. yesterday that was true but it's not a criticism that can be labelled at us all season. carragher isn't a fullback and so is always going to go for the safety first option and pass it square when he gets past the half way line. as for insua, only gerrard has got more assists in our side this season.

Completely agree so why the feck is Rafa playing him at RB when we could have Degan (assuming he is fit).  No don't laugh, I genuinely think Degan or one of the many many youngsters would offer far more going forward and Degan's not that bad at defending, certainly Cara is not as comfortable at RB as he is CB and offers sod all in an attacking sense.

Plus what the hell has happened to Insua, I was singing his praises last season for his forward runs but this season he has been awful, another case of Rafa's inspirational man-management prowess maybe.

[stmichael]

The hardest thing is getting the balance right.

You could argue that Rafa has gone back to basics. Go back a few months and we were defensively all over the place, conceding daft goals left right and centre. You could argue that Rafa was right to try and shore us up defensively so whilst the majority of our best attacking players were out we could still nick games by the odd goal.

However this defensive shift shouldn't mean that we sacrifice ourselves going forward. In recent games the gap between the midfield and the strikers has been absolutely massive. The wide players are essentially playing out of position and surrender possession far too easily.

Hopefully the return of Torres, Benayoun and Johnson will make us a better attacking outfit in the run in. I'm talking about away from home especially. I've been to Sunderland, Blackburn, Villa and City this season and we've scored 1 goal in those 4 games and that was in the 94th minute.

[bunglemark2]

WTF did we get Maxi for then, eh ? Is he not supposed to be a tad more attack-minded than some of his predecessors ? And (I didn't see the game) did Riera play on Sunday ? Only saw the highlights and didn't hear his name mentioned.

[stmichael]

WTF did we get Maxi for then, eh ? Is he not supposed to be a tad more attack-minded than some of his predecessors ? And (I didn't see the game) did Riera play on Sunday ? Only saw the highlights and didn't hear his name mentioned.

The guy's only been here 5 minutes. Give him a chance, especially considering he's playing out of position in a stuttering side.

I don't know why he started ahead of Riera yesterday though. That decision was a strange one. Ok Riera was poor in the week but he at least gives balance to the side. It frustrates the hell out of me to see how narrow we play at times.