Liverpool FC Forum

[mart]

In summation the time has come for some financial backing now ......over to you Mr Henry.

We have spent a lot of cash since Henry took over. Money is not the problem.

There is more to beeing a manager than transfers though.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

As woof said some of the football we have seen under Rodgers has been the best since Kenny's first spell over a quarter of a century ago, and while he has been a bit hit and miss in the transfer market it's not as if he's had an open chequebook and been afforded the luxury of buying proven top class talent, when you are spending an average of £8m - £10m on each player you are never going to have a 100% success rate.
Rodgers is a young manager who was tasked with turning around a supertanker and by and large he's done that. I didn't particularly want him when he was first appointed but he has definitely won me over, if football was a level playing field and every club had the same resources I'd back him against anyone currently managing in the prem.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

In summation the time has come for some financial backing now ......over to you Mr Henry.

We have spent a lot of cash since Henry took over. Money is not the problem.

There is more to beeing a manager than transfers though.

I disagree completely, money is a major issue ,and not being able to bid for the most coveted players will always have a profound effect on
stalling our progression as a club to be taken seriously.....In short there is no disguising the fact top clubs spend top money ,its simply an
indisputable and sadly inescapable fact .

[woof woof !]

I can't quite agree with the manner in which the OP has been put out. There's more to the role as a manager than just transfers. Hence to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair as there's so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us know.

"to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair"

        Maypax, my opening post did not describe BR as a "poor manager", I stated that his performance in the transfer market was perhaps less than impressive and in the thread title I used the adjective "average manager ?"

I completely agree with those that say there's more to management than buying and selling players (talk about stating the obvious    ) BUT overseeing a successful transfer policy is nevertheless a vitally important part of a managers job.

Without renewal even the most successful team will begin to stagnate and if renewal is made with players of inferior quality a team will go into decline.

There's a lot of positives regarding BR's tenure with us, however as we are nearing the end of his fourth transfer window at LFC, I look back at the players that have been signed since BR arrived and I'm increasingly concerned that despite excellent advances in our play the same unfortunately cannot be said about the quality of our squad.

To those who seem to think BR hasn't had the money to compete for quality players perhaps you could explain to me where the £30 million spent on Sturridge, Coutinho and Mignolet plus the £65 million that was splashed out on the players named in my opening post came from ? Surely that £65 million could have been more wisely spent ?

Even if we accept that the £15 million paid for Allen and the £18 million paid for Sakho will eventually prove worthwhile that still leaves £32 million frittered away on Borini, Aspas, Alberto and Illori, and yet despite all that, some still complain that BR hasn't received enough backing 

[red till i die!!]

for me he is an average manager.
i wont complain about the style of football we try to play as its better than what was previously deployed but if we had to play the players he signed then i fear we would be in trouble. the majority are not good enough and they dont even fit in to his philosophy or the team. 3 transfer windows and 95 odd million and yesterday he claimed all he had was 15 players available to train for the fa cup game. i cant blame fsg for that as he is the one who sent players out and signed others to make up a squad for this season. given his recent comments about v-tan as well id find it hard to believe fenway is meddling in his affairs. it just kills me to see him getting rid of bad players like downing only to replace him with worse in aspas.
judging by the state of the squad now CL is another pipe dream and due to the players bought we will have to do a lot of buying in the summer especially if suarez goes which i believe he will.
under rodgers i fear we will always be rebuilding.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I can't quite agree with the manner in which the OP has been put out. There's more to the role as a manager than just transfers. Hence to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair as there's so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us know.

"to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair"

   ???     Maypax, my opening post did not describe BR as a "poor manager", I stated that his performance in the transfer market was perhaps less than impressive and in the thread title I used the adjective "average manager ?"

I completely agree with those that say there's more to management than buying and selling players (talk about stating the obvious   :p ) BUT overseeing a successful transfer policy is nevertheless a vitally important part of a managers job.

Without renewal even the most successful team will begin to stagnate and if renewal is made with players of inferior quality a team will go into decline.

There's a lot of positives regarding BR's tenure with us, however as we are nearing the end of his fourth transfer window at LFC, I look back at the players that have been signed since BR arrived and I'm increasingly concerned that despite excellent advances in our play the same unfortunately cannot be said about the quality of our squad.

To those who seem to think BR hasn't had the money to compete for quality players perhaps you could explain to me where the £30 million spent on Sturridge, Coutinho and Mignolet plus the £65 million that was splashed out on the players named in my opening post came from ? Surely that £65 million could have been more wisely spent ?

Even if we accept that the £15 million paid for Allen and the £18 million paid for Sakho will eventually prove worthwhile that still leaves £32 million frittered away on Borini, Aspas, Alberto and Illori, and yet despite all that, some still complain that BR hasn't received enough backing 

Yeah but it's not as if the teams we are competing with are standing still either, I don't have the exact figures but I bet the money Rodgers has spent is chicken feed compared to what City and Chelsea have spent in the same period.
Even teams like arsenal and united who have been a bit conservative at times in the transfer market in recent years still splashed out big dough on players like Fellaini, Ozil, Van Persie, Zaha, Mata etc
And spurs went wild last season spending more in one window than Rodgers has probably had in his entire time here.

Even if you want to micro-analyse our spending and say that he's wasted away £32m on borini, aspas, alberto and Ilorri I think it's too early to say, look at hendo people wrote him off and now he's one of the most important members of the team.
Because we only spent £6m-£10m on them if we chose to move them on we'd get most of our money back anyway.
It's the big deals like the Carroll one where you run the risk of pi$$ing large amounts of money down the drain, not those £7m deals.

[jacdaniel]

It drives me up the wall when people label Llori and Alberto as flops.  They are young players that were signed for the future. They've hardly even played yet due to us not having European football or Carling Cup.
While we are all desperate to finish top 4 and get into the CL, the people running the club are actually considering next season, the one after and the one after that.

Obviously we have spotted talent in these 2 players and want them to feature in the future. 

Allen and Sakho also seem to be labelled as flops for some reason.  Both players were in the first 11 during our best run of form this season!!  They are both key to how Rodgers wants us to play.
Obviously the players we took on loan are rubbish.  Perhaps thats why we took them on loan though?  We needed some cover and it was an easy option.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I can't quite agree with the manner in which the OP has been put out. There's more to the role as a manager than just transfers. Hence to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair as there's so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us know.

"to state that he's been a poor manager because of his failures in the transfer windows is unfair"

   ???     Maypax, my opening post did not describe BR as a "poor manager", I stated that his performance in the transfer market was perhaps less than impressive and in the thread title I used the adjective "average manager ?"

I completely agree with those that say there's more to management than buying and selling players (talk about stating the obvious   :p ) BUT overseeing a successful transfer policy is nevertheless a vitally important part of a managers job.

Without renewal even the most successful team will begin to stagnate and if renewal is made with players of inferior quality a team will go into decline.

There's a lot of positives regarding BR's tenure with us, however as we are nearing the end of his fourth transfer window at LFC, I look back at the players that have been signed since BR arrived and I'm increasingly concerned that despite excellent advances in our play the same unfortunately cannot be said about the quality of our squad.

To those who seem to think BR hasn't had the money to compete for quality players perhaps you could explain to me where the £30 million spent on Sturridge, Coutinho and Mignolet plus the £65 million that was splashed out on the players named in my opening post came from ? Surely that £65 million could have been more wisely spent ?

Even if we accept that the £15 million paid for Allen and the £18 million paid for Sakho will eventually prove worthwhile that still leaves £32 million frittered away on Borini, Aspas, Alberto and Illori, and yet despite all that, some still complain that BR hasn't received enough backing 

For the love of God mate please don't drag this argument back up and risk resurrecting the 'stattos    ,Rodgers since his early tenure has collated a fair
amount of money through outgoing players as well as monetary funds he has been afforded by the owners. I suppose it depends largely on your perception
of what it takes to be a serious contender for a top four place ,I mean I don't see Chelsea ,Man City ,Arsenal or Spudz quibbling over spending the amount
of money it takes to secure the type of quality player who they know can aid their progression.   

I don't continually hear their owners bleating on about 'Business models' whilst spending a veritable fortune on Baseball players for that other venture that
is so clearly closer to their hearts ....maybe its the bats that turn them on  I mean businesses make money ,don't they ? I'm sure I'm not the only one
who would love to know what happened to the loan the owners took out with RBS for future 'ground development' 

We can all argue till we're blue in the face mate ,but this club generates a huge turnover ,and we practically receive 'fuck all in relation to that,and we continually get budgets thrown in our collective faces....Well it wont wash any more ,I mean if other clubs were adhering to stay true to a stringent policy
I wouldn't mind so much ,but fuck me they're spending money like its confetti.

I may be sounding off a touch early as the owners still have time as the window is still open ,but f*ck me they're making me sweat in this one if they're
to pull this one out of the bag  We will probably now be inundated with people saying its for the future stability of the club that we labour under strict
guidelines for these new legislations.....Nah ,get your hands in your pockets boys ,and reach for something other than your ***** ,because we're through
getting *****...... If we fail to qualify for one of those most coveted  top four places this season then the past may be all that we have to talk about.

[red till i die!!]

[quote="ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:28 pm"

Yeah but it's not as if the teams we are competing with are standing still either, I don't have the exact figures but I bet the money Rodgers has spent is chicken feed compared to what City and Chelsea have spent in the same period.

dont know what the point of that is as nearly every club in europe spends chicken feed compared to those 2.

Even teams like arsenal and united who have been a bit conservative at times in the transfer market in recent years still splashed out big dough on players like Fellaini, Ozil, Van Persie, Zaha, Mata etc
And spurs went wild last season spending more in one window than Rodgers has probably had in his entire time here.

united have always signed big players for big fees, hardly a year goes by where they dont spend big on at least one player, its mata now, in the summer it was feilani and before that RVP.
spurs got well paid for bale and thats what has allowed them to spend and for the record it wasnt a hell of a lot more that what brendan has spent. there is maybe a joe allen in the price difference but what transpires is an even bigger difference in quality got for the money spent.

Even if you want to micro-analyse our spending and say that he's wasted away £32m on borini, aspas, alberto and Ilorri I think it's too early to say, look at hendo people wrote him off and now he's one of the most important members of the team.

hendo might have forced his way into being a important member to the team but he aint no star. he has a good engine and works hard but is far from being a quality player.
ask yourself this, would we make a profit on him or break even if we where to sell him ?
that 32million is on the bench or on loan and not where it should be, on the pitch.

Because we only spent £6m-£10m on them if we chose to move them on we'd get most of our money back anyway.
It's the big deals like the Carroll one where you run the risk of pi$$ing large amounts of money down the drain, not those £7m deals.

woof got it spot on when he compared our policy to throwing muck at a wall and see what sticks. out of all those players we have spent 6-10mil on how many have been a success or are indeed playing every week. i wouldnt be convinced that they would fetch back what we paid either but it wont matter because all those losses will be off set from the profit luis brings and will leave us with more money to convert to muck to throw at the wall.
andy carroll was years ago but what gets me is why is he still being used as an excuse to justify brendans poor spending and failures in the transfer market.

[/quote]

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

RTID I mentioned those 2 clubs because they are in our division, we have to compete with them if we want to win the title or qualify for the CL.
You are right about saying most clubs in Europe spend chicken feed compared to them but most clubs in Europe don't directly compete with them on a week to week basis but we do. Because of the wealth and power of those 2 in reality there are only 2 CL places up for grabs in this country not 4.
I agree with your point about not enough of what we spend ends up out on the pitch but I don't think Rodgers can be blamed for that, because the owners got their fingers burnt with Carroll it's pretty obvious that they aren't keen on spending big money and even if they spend modest money they want to drive a hard bargain.
If you aren't spending big sums on proven quality then it's going to be hit and miss, that's just a fact.
What the owners are prepared to spend is out of Rodgers hands and the seeds of that transfer policy were sown way before he'd even arrived here.
I agree that the club isn't going the right way transfer wise if it wants to get back into the top 4 but this is a thread about Rodgers managerial abilities and I think he's doing about as much as he possibly can, I'm sure he'd love to be in the position pellegrini and mourinho are in and play FM every summer and January.

[woof woof !]

Honestly lads I don't give a toss what other clubs are spending although I do fully appreciate the point that in a in a tug of war over a player we're not going to have the cash to outbid the likes of City, Chelsea, Man U etc.

My concern is that for the circa £100 million that we have spent since BR arrived, with the exception of Sturridge and Coutinho the other signings in terms of quality have so far added bugger all to the squad.

We've been fortunate that Henderson and Sterling have finally started to come into their own, I can only hope that some of BR's signings eventually start to do the same, that is if they ever get a game.

[leeroy74]

Take a look at Brendans signings and the price they were worth and put the prices they're worth now should we sell the lot, how many have gone up in value?

Fabio Borini   £10,400,000               £8,000,000
Joe Allen    £15,000,000                   £10,000,000
Oussama Assaidi    £2,400,000          £2,000,000
Samed Yesil     £1,000,000                £1,000,000
Daniel Sturridge    £12,000,000          £25,000,000
Philippe Coutinho    £8,600,000          £20,000,000
Luis Alberto     £6,800,000                £6,000,000
Iago Aspas     £7,500,000                  £5,000,000
Simon Mignolet     £10,000,000         £8,000,000
Tiago Ilori      £7,000,000                 £7,000,000
Mamadou Sakho     £15,000,000         £15,000,000

I've not included loan players or freebies

Total spend £95.7m
Players now worth (in my opinion) £107m

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Listening to that interview of Rodgers on talk sport he sort of damns with faint praise and distances himself from our transfer committee.
I can't remember his exact words verbatim but it was along the lines of we have a very good transfer committee here and I'll just see what THEY come up with over the next few days

[red till i die!!]

Listening to that interview of Rodgers on talk sport he sort of damns with faint praise and distances himself from our transfer committee.
I can't remember his exact words verbatim but it was along the lines of we have a very good transfer committee here and I'll just see what THEY come up with over the next few days

is he not on the transfer committee himself ?

[damjan193]

Listening to that interview of Rodgers on talk sport he sort of damns with faint praise and distances himself from our transfer committee.
I can't remember his exact words verbatim but it was along the lines of we have a very good transfer committee here and I'll just see what THEY come up with over the next few days

is he not on the transfer committee himself ?

The committee includes Rodgers as first team manager, the two scouts from Man City as head of recruitment, Michael Edwards as head of performance and analysis and Ian Ayre as managing director. So yes, Rodgers is part of the committee.

However, I don't think that this transfer committee is anything like the boot room or the like. I don't really know too much about it but I see it as more of a formal body. Everybody has their own job to do and that's about it. Rodgers has probably done his part in giving suggestions or whatever his job is in the committee so I guess it's now up to the scouts and Ayre to their own job. I presume that's what he meant when he said "they".