Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Dunno if you watched a different game to me but I thought the players played sh!te, not the manager?

[ethanr]

Dunno if you watched a different game to me but I thought the players played sh!te, not the manager?

Agree.  I mean I think it's clear he got Allen wrong, and should have started Lucas or Hendo, but if our squad is as talented as a single player starting over another completely affects the outcome of the game and how we play, the Rodgers is an absolutely genius for getting this Sh*t squad of players to perform how they have. Obviously that's not the case.

Simple fact was, we were horrendous, and Southampton took full advantage.  Our entire back line was awful.  Johnson couldn't make a single good touch, and there's nothing you can do about that as manager.  Most importantly tho, nobody was making the right choices.  We just had a bad state of mind that was unable to come to terms with what was going on, and we couldn't perform.

[Reg]

This is why over the years I've said StevieG is a cack captain because a proper leader should've taken control and sorted them out, including telling the manager to take someone off.

[Thommo's perm]

This is why over the years I've said StevieG is a cack captain because a proper leader should've taken control and sorted them out, including telling the manager to take someone off.

Bit harsh Reginald, but I take your point

[Kenny Kan]

This is why over the years I've said StevieG is a cack captain because a proper leader should've taken control and sorted them out, including telling the manager to take someone off.

I don't think we need a John Terry in the dressing room. The captain shouldn't be TELLING the manager anything, unless he's being diplomatic about it.

Rodgers set the team up Saturday and he has to take the lions share of the blame. He said he told the lads this would be one of the hardest games they would play, so he was doing well here - until he picked Allen. Allen wasn't the reason we lost as there were many poor individual performances but this comes back to Rodgers. He doesn't have us playing in unison as a unit - especially when the going gets tough. We become all individual, players turn into headless chickens, there is no composure, no cohesion and there is certainly no resilience. It appears Rodgers has only instilled the 'nice' side of the game, the nice passes and goals when we're on top. Rattle us, get among us, and Rodgers to me has massively overlooked this important aspect, and it's showed many times this season, it looks as if it's being consistently overlooked.

Back to Allen though, he literally was playing for Southampton on Saturday he was that bad. Couple this with the fact there was only one other proper midfielder in the team and that there becomes the f.ucking problem. It didn't work against Spurs and I thought he would have at least realised this and learnt from it. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this is attributed to the arrogance of the man. He contradicted what he said about Southampton by playing TWO MIDFIELDERS! When they saw our team sheet I bet they were given an extra 10% in motivation. We played straight into their hands - we allowed a team renowned for pressing high in their opponents half to come at our feebly undermanned midfield.

Rodgers set us up for failure and that was the end result. It was tactically inept. The players compounded this but who knows this shambles of a system could have been reason enough for their poor performances. We were under pressure from the get go, we were rattled and we never could get a foothold into the game. We never once earned the right to play in this game and that's where Midfield is absolutely crucial a midfield we never had on Saturday.

I don't think Henderson deserved to miss out like he has been recently and he's an engine this side need. Gerrard's to old to be "chasing shadows", Lucas is a sitter and isn't the most mobile, the two of them could do with someone like Hendo in there, making us more compact. We're just to open and soft in the center and this just has a negative ripple effect throughout the whole side.

[Reg]

Hey Ken, who said Stevie is not diplomatic? You don't think the captain has the right to tell a manager something? Talking between grown men, come on....

Proper leadership if worth a million quid and we've always had great leadership in the past, SG is not in those ranks though.

[devaney]

Reg - is it more the case that when SG is off then so is the team?

Cack captain doesn't equal what he achieved in the CL during 2005. Off days yes. Cack no.

[Scottbot]

It seems to me that many people's opinions of the work Rodgers is doing depends largely on whether they can seperate the first half of the season (the first 12 games) from the 2nd half. Those who can will see some good progress. Those who can't won't and whenever we have a game like yesterday their disatisfaction with the season as a whole comes to the fore.

- We're simply playing catch up for a very poor points tally over those first 12 games and whilst we have had a couple of little runs where it's looked like we might just get ourselves back in to the running for top 4, unfortunately we've needed to (and been unable to) put together the 7-8 match winning run that has been required. If you look at those early games in isolation we were playing some nice football at times but we were repeatedly shipping silly goals based on individual errors. These were generally errors that were induced by the new system ie. playing the high line, asking players (like Skrtel) to play in space and to be in posession of the ball in the knowledge that a mistake will likely lead to a goal. Also (much like last season) for all our possession and pretty build-up play we weren't scoring goals. Another feature of those early games was our poor defending at set-pieces.

- Now I don't know the points tally and stats for the games that have followed the opening 12 but I believe the form table would have us in 3rd/4th place approx? There have certainly been some improvements during this time. We're scoring more goals now that at any time since Fowler and McNamanaman were tearing teams apart in Roy Evan's best seasons. As an attacking team there is a lot to like I think. We look like scoring every game even if (as was the case yesterday) it doesn't quite come off for us. I've noticed some changes in how we attack now, early season I felt we often had possession of the ball for possession's sake but since Coutinho and Sturridge came into the side and also Enrique (who is not afraid to play a ball into space) we have become more forward thinking and (on occasions) direct. Defensively we have also seen some improvement as the back line and midfield have started to get to grips with how Rodgers wants us to press the ball. I felt our pressing was a bit gun-ho and over zealous early in the season, like we were living on a knife edge all the time. It has evened out a touch as the season has wore on.

- In terms of transfer dealings it has been a mixed bag for Rodgers. The summer dealings don't look so good. Borini's confidence was so shattered by the time he picked up his season ending injury you wondered if he would ever recover to be the exciting young prospect we were led to believe he was. If there is any interest in the lad from Italy in the summer I suspect he will be first out the door. Assaidi is another head scratcher, he generally doesn't get a look in and then inexplicably he called up off the bench occasionally (like yesterday) to try and make an impact in an important moment. Young Jo Allen has (for me) become a bit of a stick to beat the manager with. Funnily enough, he was our best player in those first 12 games (when everyone else was playing poorly) but his form suffered as soon as Lucas returned and he was asked to provide more going forward. I still believe he is terrific ball player and personally believe that he will be a success at Anfield. Obvioulsy January's transfer business was superb, LFc had comfortably the best transfer window in the league and Sturridge and Coutinho both look like gems particularly given the reasonable transfer fees.

Positives - So the positives for me and the reasons I am optimistic about next season. I don't see any reason why we cannot carry this season's 2nd half of the season form into the begining of next season (can anyone else?) and if we do that we will be batting around the positions (ie. the top 4) that we expect to be. I like the fact we have been battering a number of the smaller teams (particularly at home) and that is something we haven't done for a number of years. I see no reason why this won't continue next season. I like the way we are trying to play ie. playing a high line, being agressive when we lose the ball and I LOVE possession football (you should see me on FIFA! although I can't score for toffee!) but we have also played a lot of clever intricate football at times this past 3 months and some of it has been a joy to watch. I like the fact we have seen some of the youngsters come through this season. Sterling, Suso and Wisdom all have a bright future at the club and I think the manager has done a good job in the way he has brought them through and I'd like to think we will see more of them next season.

Negatives/Question Marks

- We still can't defend set-pieces. Absolutely our achilles heel as a side. Is it about coaching? I personally think it has more to do with personell. Last season with Big Andy Carroll in there as your (dummy) centre-half and also with Skrtel we could deal with most things but there is a real lack of height and aerial dominance in the side and it HAS to be addressed. Can Rodgers get the right players in? It's not going to be easy to find a cenre-half who is as comfortable on the ball as Agger and also as good in the air as someone like Vidic but that is exactly what we need. I don't know if Ashley Williams is the answer but this transfer may well dictate the direction of next season. We could also do with another centre-mid who is decent in the air and at deadball situations. If we can address this then it stands to reason that we'll get better with deadballs at the other end of the pitch as well.

- I'm sick of hearing about a 'plan B'. There are posters online who are obsessed with the concept. It isn't about having a plan B. None of our rivals have one as such. You wouldn't find the mancs ever throwing on someone like Andy Carroll so they can launch a bunch of long-balls and aimless crosses at the lad because the original plan isn't working. Let's be honest, the whole conept of having a player like Andy would be unthinkable to them. It's about having a few kinks to put in your gameplan that change things up. City can bring on a player like Djeko (god knows how you spell it!) which alters the way they play SLIGHTLY. He's better in the air than their other strikers but he is also a clever player and his record off of the bench is incredible. Rodgers needs to put a kink or two in this side and it's clear that someone like Fabio Borini isn't it. We've certainly got some good options in the wide areas now ie. You can take off a Coutinho/Suso type player and bring on a Sterling. We need these sort of options in the forward positions.

- Will the younger lads continue to come through if we don't have European football next season? For a team in transitions like ourselves the Europa League has been very useful for bringing on the likes of Sterling, Suso, Wisdom, Shelvey etc I do worry that without Europe these lads will struggle to ge the game exposure they need to continue their development.

[Benny The Noon]

Great post Scott

[eds]

I'm sick of hearing about a 'plan B'. There are posters online who are obsessed with the concept. It isn't about having a plan B. None of our rivals have one as such. You wouldn't find the mancs ever throwing on someone like Andy Carroll so they can launch a bunch of long-balls and aimless crosses at the lad because the original plan isn't working. Let's be honest, the whole conept of having a player like Andy would be unthinkable to them. It's about having a few kinks to put in your gameplan that change things up. City can bring on a player like Djeko (god knows how you spell it!) which alters the way they play SLIGHTLY. He's better in the air than their other strikers but he is also a clever player and his record off of the bench is incredible. Rodgers needs to put a kink or two in this side and it's clear that someone like Fabio Borini isn't it. We've certainly got some good options in the wide areas now ie. You can take off a Coutinho/Suso type player and bring on a Sterling. We need these sort of options in the forward positions.

       

Probably one of the most of sensible things I have read in a while and really happy that at least there is one another poster that shares my same sentiment.

It's so obvious that the people calling for this ridiculous "plan B" are:

A) English
B) Grew up watching footy in the 60 and 70's and now starting to show their age with these pre-historic dinosaur tactics

Do you see the likes of any elite team (such as Barcelona) in the world using this? No

So let's stop talking about this "Andy Carroll can come on in the last 5 minutes and win us games" nonsense, yeah?

[damjan193]

That's a good post Scott and I agree with most of it. However, the thing about this great second half of the season is something that we've seen before. When Kenny came in to replace Hodgson we would have been second if the season started then. Next season wasn't even close to what we expected to achieve in the league.

I also believe that next season will be better for us. We have a manager who has a clear idea of what he wants to do and the players seem like they're starting to understand his philosophy. But even I have mixed feelings and expectations about what could happen next season and I totally understand those who say that we still have a long way to go.

[jacdaniel]

That's a good post Scott and I agree with most of it. However, the thing about this great second half of the season is something that we've seen before. When Kenny came in to replace Hodgson we would have been second if the season started then. Next season wasn't even close to what we expected to achieve in the league.

I also believe that next season will be better for us. We have a manager who has a clear idea of what he wants to do and the players seem like they're starting to understand his philosophy. But even I have mixed feelings and expectations about what could happen next season and I totally understand those who say that we still have a long way to go.

I love Kenny and thought he probably deserved some more time but he made a huge mistake.  Possibly one encouraged by Comolli.  (i don't know).

The success he originally brought to the club was mainly based on the link up play between Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles.   
They were ripping teams apart. 

That summer we decided to take a completely different approach and sign players to suit Carroll instead of building on what we had.  So Downing was signed to supply the crosses and Adam would deliver the corners for Andy.  Maxi and Kuyt found themselves on the bench most weeks and Meireles was sold.

I don't see Rodgers making the same mistake.

[Reg]

Basis results since 1st January, we would be in 4th place. I think it was Ure, Citech and Spurs in front of us.

[damjan193]

That's a good post Scott and I agree with most of it. However, the thing about this great second half of the season is something that we've seen before. When Kenny came in to replace Hodgson we would have been second if the season started then. Next season wasn't even close to what we expected to achieve in the league.

I also believe that next season will be better for us. We have a manager who has a clear idea of what he wants to do and the players seem like they're starting to understand his philosophy. But even I have mixed feelings and expectations about what could happen next season and I totally understand those who say that we still have a long way to go.

I love Kenny and thought he probably deserved some more time but he made a huge mistake.  Possibly one encouraged by Comolli.  (i don't know).

The success he originally brought to the club was mainly based on the link up play between Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt and Meireles.   
They were ripping teams apart. 

That summer we decided to take a completely different approach and sign players to suit Carroll instead of building on what we had.  So Downing was signed to supply the crosses and Adam would deliver the corners for Andy.  Maxi and Kuyt found themselves on the bench most weeks and Meireles was sold.

I don't see Rodgers making the same mistake.

Yeah, I was thinking about something similar, so I hope you're right. Summer transfer window will probably be the key once again.

[kazza]

From skysports

Chelsea interim boss Rafael Benitez is confident he will go back to Liverpool for a second spell as manager.

Benitez has previously insisted it is certain he will leave Stamford Bridge at the end of the season, but he is unsure of his immediate destination.

The Spaniard has been a target of abuse from sections of the Chelsea support since his arrival at the club for comments he apparently made while still at Anfield.


"I will return to Liverpool one day almost certainly, I just don't know when, my daughters and wife are still living there."
Rafael Benitez


When asked by Spanish newspaper Marca about his future, Benitez said: "Do I have a chance of staying here? I take it game by game, no more than that.

"My idea is to keep coaching a competitive team. Why not in England? We have to wait and see.

"I will return to Liverpool one day almost certainly, I just don't know when, my daughters and wife are still living there."

Benitez insists the demonstrations over his presence at Stamford Bridge have abated recently.

"There are not so many protests from the fans against me, we all know about four or five banners that have always been there but that's a group of fans that is more worried about my past at Liverpool than actually criticising me for my work or our play, and I can't change that," he added.

"I can't go on denying one by one all the things that they say I have said in the past about Chelsea. It would have created a bigger problem. I have just kept my belief in the team so that these people would end up recognising my work."