Liverpool FC Forum

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:35 am

LFC2007 wrote:I don't think it's 'low aspirations' on this one. It seems that most people are simply excited at being in with a good chance of winning a pretty decent trophy after what everyone would agree has been a very poor season. It would be a mighty sh!te existence to harp on about how sh!t this season has been while we've got a tie against Benfica (yeah, that p!ss little club from Portugal) to look forward to, wouldn't it? Hopefully,then, the 'bigger picture' debate can f'uck off to another thread.

what he said, if you dont have any interest in the competition and find it below you, simply dont post in this thread and leave it to those who wouldnt mind picking up another trophy.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:36 am

Certainly nothing wrong in people getting excited, I get excited before every game we play ..... even the friendlies. Doesn't mean they are important on the grand scale of things but I like to watch Liverpool especially when we win. Getting drawn against Benfica doesn't mean our season is any less sh!t, just means we need to beat them if its going to improve. The "big picture" is why we have found ourselves in this competition so I think there is room for comment.

by **Rush Job** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:53 am

I`d be happyto win it as Im sure the players would. Super cup is always fun too.

by **shawnk** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:56 am

kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:To be totally honest if winning it made it a certainty he was going to stay, I personally would hope for the longer term good that we don't prevail.

In other words your dislike for Rafa has caused you to wish the team to fail (makes sense that ) , and you get upset when your support for the club is questioned.

If Maureen was our manager and we were in this competition you would be wishing we won then right? Just a thought, maybe Liverpool is not the team for you.

It is a good competion to win, and I am glad to watch more games. I cannot understand why so called supporters are not happy we won yeasterday.

What I think bigmick is trying to say is that if losing this lesser European Cup is the only way to get rid of Rafa then so be it in a bigger picture or for the long term future of Liverpool. I'm pretty sure any fans or glory hunter would want Liverpool to win any cup competition, only the minor ones who are sure that the manager is the "problem" here would want us to not win it so we could get rid of him.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:07 am

s@int wrote:To put it another way, we had an open top bus parade when we won the UEFA CUP......does anyone really think we should have a parade if we win the Europa League, or should we not leave that to small clubs like Everton.

Just goes to show how much we've progressed under the current manager don't yer think saint . Back in 2001 i/we were over the feckin moon to win the the UEFA cup and what a final it was . Fast forward to present day and some would rather not be in the comp . Funny that don't yer think . Expectations you see , Rafas fault obviously .

by **Penguins** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:17 am

s@int wrote:Who mentioned that because we were great 20 years ago we have a god given right to win anything ? Cos I certainly haven't. The only ones I have read who have said anything about THAT is you and Zidane. I have said I think we have a great team, a team that has underperformed this season, and a team that should be challenging for the title. Not because of what we achieved 20 years ago , but because we have some great players NOW.

I have already said I want to win it, just don't try telling me that its as prestigous as the UEFA cup was and I am happy.

Times change, cups gain and lose prestige over time. When I started watching football the League cup was less than an egg cup (NONE OF THE TOP SIDES EVEN BOTHERED ENTERING) The FA cup was the main competition and was considered more important than winning the League title. Gradually things changed Europe became more important, so the League became more important and the FA CUP gradually lost prestige as it only ensured entry to secondary European competition. The League cup became an entry to Europe and gained in importance, before gradually fading again.

In my opinion this is a third tier competition probably sandwiched between the FA cup and the League cup. As I said a big cup for little clubs, a little cup for a team like Liverpool.

Real fans have very low aspirations :- maybe thats why so many are still happy with Rafa even after the mess he has made of our season.

And I think you are bang on wrong and if you can't see we majorly overachieved last season and got more luck and red cards in our favour then I don't know what you were watching with.
Was it 15 combacks in the last minute and 10 red cards and 12 points of Manure and Chelski.

None of those things will ever be a recurring occurence.

The team was not good enough last season and we have spent jack **** the last 2 years and will be spending jack **** for at least the following 2 years.

We aren't even close to competing wage-wise with our rivals which means they get to pick 1st and that will not change.
Players of Torres ilk are more likely to leave than come to this club in the future.

And please take away all the Rafa has brought to this club during his tenure. 2001 everyone was overjoyed to win the Uefa cup and weren't even close to ever being mentioned amongst the elite of Europe. It's thanks to Rafa we even got to that stage. It's because of his ability to make he squad punch above it's weight that many fans have raised their expectations.

It's so lovely when the transfers always has to be compared since 2004 when Rafa arrived as he started with a team 30 pts of the winners that year. But who cares... :no

And no, I don't like the philosophy that Rafa has and doubtful if it'll ever work. But credit where credit is due.

And if you think 1st of all that:

1) a world class manager will come to us now
2) getting rid of Rafa will make us challenge for the title next season
3) Owners isn' really an issue

You sir, are seriously deluded.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:23 am

You may as well just slit you wrists now mate

and some people call me a doom and gloomer ! :laugh:

by **Penguins** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:31 am

I am not a doom and gloomer.

I'll support the team whatever division or competition they play.
I have hope that one day Gerald and Waldorf will be forced to sell and hopefully loose millions on the deal.
The club will live on after those 2 are long gone but right now I don't demand miracles our of the team as the present looks a little bleak and the medium term future even bleaker.

We all know the deal this summer as has been the previous 3 transfer windows. No transfer kitty at all.

I can just sense the joy in the dressing room knowing that there will be no improvement while Spurs, Villa and City will invest more money.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:44 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:To put it another way, we had an open top bus parade when we won the UEFA CUP......does anyone really think we should have a parade if we win the Europa League, or should we not leave that to small clubs like Everton.

Just goes to show how much we've progressed under the current manager don't yer think saint . Back in 2001 i/we were over the feckin moon to win the the UEFA cup and what a final it was . Fast forward to present day and some would rather not be in the comp . Funny that don't yer think . Expectations you see , Rafas fault obviously .

No mate, it was just harder to qualify for the CL back then as there were less places. We also have never won the UEFA CUP without winning another cup or two to keep it company.

For example we finished 3rd in 2000 but only qualified for the UEFA cup.

Then again we started playing games in the UEFA cup in September back then ...... not once we had been knocked out of the CL in February.

Great season with some great players many of whom went on to lift the CL a few years later.

I would obviously rather be in the CL Igor, but we are in it now so we may as well win it......just don't try to persuade me its as prestigous as the UEFA CUP was back then and we can both be happy.

UEFA obviously value it so highly that they are experimenting in it, other clubs value it so highly that they play their reserves in it, but its a trophy and we have hardly won so many recently that we can turn our noses up at one.

So for me, I would just be happy to win something.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:51 am

s@int wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:To put it another way, we had an open top bus parade when we won the UEFA CUP......does anyone really think we should have a parade if we win the Europa League, or should we not leave that to small clubs like Everton.

Just goes to show how much we've progressed under the current manager don't yer think saint . Back in 2001 i/we were over the feckin moon to win the the UEFA cup and what a final it was . Fast forward to present day and some would rather not be in the comp . Funny that don't yer think . Expectations you see , Rafas fault obviously .

No mate, it was just harder to qualify for the CL back then as there were less places. We also have never won the UEFA CUP without winning another cup or two to keep it company.

For example we finished 3rd in 2000 but only qualified for the UEFA cup.

Then again we started playing games in the UEFA cup in September back then ...... not once we had been knocked out of the CL in February.

Great season with some great players many of whom went on to lift the CL a few years later.

I would obviously rather be in the CL Igor, but we are in it now so we may as well win it......just don't try to persuade me its as prestigous as the UEFA CUP was back then and we can both be happy.

UEFA obviously value it so highly that they are experimenting in it, other clubs value it so highly that they play their reserves in it, but its a trophy and we have hardly won so many recently that we can turn our noses up at one.

So for me, I would just be happy to win something.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything mate , might aswell go along for the ride .That's all . If we win it and rafa gets to stay i'm happy your not .We'll continue the conversation in the summer and see what it brings i reckon . Might aswell go and try win the bl00dy thing no matter what people think the reprecussions will be .

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:03 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:To put it another way, we had an open top bus parade when we won the UEFA CUP......does anyone really think we should have a parade if we win the Europa League, or should we not leave that to small clubs like Everton.

Just goes to show how much we've progressed under the current manager don't yer think saint . Back in 2001 i/we were over the feckin moon to win the the UEFA cup and what a final it was . Fast forward to present day and some would rather not be in the comp . Funny that don't yer think . Expectations you see , Rafas fault obviously .

No mate, it was just harder to qualify for the CL back then as there were less places. We also have never won the UEFA CUP without winning another cup or two to keep it company.

For example we finished 3rd in 2000 but only qualified for the UEFA cup.

Then again we started playing games in the UEFA cup in September back then ...... not once we had been knocked out of the CL in February.

Great season with some great players many of whom went on to lift the CL a few years later.

I would obviously rather be in the CL Igor, but we are in it now so we may as well win it......just don't try to persuade me its as prestigous as the UEFA CUP was back then and we can both be happy.

UEFA obviously value it so highly that they are experimenting in it, other clubs value it so highly that they play their reserves in it, but its a trophy and we have hardly won so many recently that we can turn our noses up at one.

So for me, I would just be happy to win something.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything mate , might aswell go along for the ride .That's all . If we win it and rafa gets to stay i'm happy your not .We'll continue the conversation in the summer and see what it brings i reckon . Might aswell go and try win the bl00dy thing no matter what people think the reprecussions will be .

I agree mate..... I honestly wouldn't sack a manager after he wins something mate. If Liverpool win it, Rafa deserves another season, just as Houllier did. We may regret it in the long term as we did with Houllier, but I will be just as happy as you if we win it. I may think we can do better than Rafa ...... but its just my opinion ....not necessarily a fact.

People seem to get the idea that I either think he is a bad manager, or I don't like him, or both. Neither is true, I think he makes too many mistakes and doesn't always put the club first, and that we could do better, but he's still a good manager, just not quite good enough imo.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:13 am

Thing is saint and this is mad , if we win it and get fourth and the mancs don't win the league and get knocked out by munich ,will we have had a better season than them :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:18 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Thing is saint and this is mad , if we win it and get fourth and the mancs don't win the league and get knocked out by munich ,will we have had a better season than them

Hmmm..... not so sure mate. They have already won the "egg cup" so that plus second in the league and getting further in the CL ......? I will still p!ss my self laughing though if it happens

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:30 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Back in 2001 i/we were over the feckin moon to win the the UEFA cup and what a final it was . Fast forward to present day and some would rather not be in the comp . Funny that don't yer think . Expectations you see , Rafas fault obviously .

Exactly. Winning the CL, getting to another final and a separate semi reset expectation levels, and in the meantime the UEFA cup remained basically the same. None of the reformatting has changed it in any significant way, by that I mean the level of the competition remains what it was. Maybe there's the nostalgia factor too, although I would have though that being the first club to win it 4 times would actually add to the experience of winning it. Another reason I think it's perceptibly less prestigious is that the bitters have been it a couple of times and that's bound to cause people to make the small-time club, small-time competition link

by **Zidane** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:11 am

s@int wrote:good post Zidane although I don't agree with much that you say.

In my opinion once you accept mediocrity it soon becomes the accepted standard rather than the fall back position. A great man once said " “Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.”

We are a big club, even if you only count the trophies we have won in the last twenty years ..... we are still one of the most successful clubs in England.

I believe we have a team good enough to challenge for the title..... unrealistic ? We challenged last season and maybe if we had been a little more ambitious in some games we might well have won it.

We all want to see trophies back on the menu at Anfield, some of us prefer steak while others are happy with a hamburger, but we are so hungry that even a hamburger will taste good after all this time. What I don't agree with is serving up Hamburger and telling me its steak.

Yeah don't get me wrong I don't want to accept the UEFA cup and struggling for fourth every season but :censored:

happens and we are where we are. I just don't like the attitude of some posters brushing this cup off like it's nothing and it would be better off to just get out of it asap(the mindset earlier in the competition). It's bigger than any of the domestic cups imo the only thing that gives it a bad reputation I guess is the name change and the value of it slightly dropping like you said about other competitions. But had Juventus and Roma stayed in it would have looked that much better, even then so far it has been a great competition I think.

And yeah I do agree on the team being good enough to challenge too, but it heavily depends on the health of the squad and I think even with Rafa at the helm, IF the team stays injury free for the most part we will continue to be right up there. This season has just been a mess though, completely ridiculous honestly with all sorts of nonsense affecting it.

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