Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:20 am

aCe' wrote:Only problem is that we dont seem to have a 2nd choice thats any good...

In our current formation we are limited in who will come who is good enough to be effective when called on, but who is not so good they would demand a starting place. Defoe and others like him have been available and not signed, I reckoned Defoe would deffo have worked as a signing. Maybe we should have got Bent instead of having ridiculous numbers of "Liverpool sign Bent" comical threads (not)

N'Gog is decent, no more and no less. We were always going to stumble upon hard times when our new system, which is/was great when Torres is available, has the frontman out. Rafa put all his eggs in one (up-front) basket, found a new role for one of his four 06/07 strikers and has sold the rest or ignores them (Voronin) I still think Voronin could do a job if given a chance, but the fans won't and it seems the manager won't either. Instead of bringing in good players and the exisiting players becoming squad players which would have given us a good squad, Rafa sold off what he could to raise more funds which he subsequently wasted so we have an expensive but too often ineffective side. Our squad contains £10m (Kuyt) and £11.5m (Babel) wingers, a £21m striker (Torres) , £7m (Dossena) and £17.5m (Johnson) full-backs, £18.6m DM (Mascherano), a £6m goalie (Reina), two £6m or thereabouts CBs (Agger and Skrtel) and has a £20m CM on the bench (Aquilani) and yet has lost 10 games already this season. One of our best players cost nothing, yet we find excuses for a £150m squad to be losing as many games as it has won. Is the squad any better than when it had mid-price range players like Crouch £7m, Luis Garcia £6m, Arbeloa £2.6m, Sissoko £5.8m, Hyypia £2.4m, and Riise £4.65m? I'd say the only player of those we've spent £15m+ on that has proven worth every penny was Torres, the rest are not that much better than their predecessors to have cost 2-3 times as much (or more)

I think N'Gog only emphasises how wasteful Rafa's spending has become, not because he cost a lot, but because we get decent value out of him at £1.5m and not out of players that cost a lot more.

by **aCe'** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:44 am

good post owzat..

by **shanklygates** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:34 pm

my opinion on ngog tbh has drastically changed, i didnt like him at all didnt think he was anywhere near good enough, but ya know what he is changing that opinion with every game.

he has pace, his strength his improving all the time, so is timing of runs, and his confidence is really growing too, dont forget guys he is still only 20 or 21 and he cost 1.5 million.

then he has 6 or 7 goals in 15 games, that rivals virtually any striker in the prem. what was crouch or defoe like at 20 years old?, even torres.

ngog is going to be a quality player.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:38 pm

He has done really well to step into Torres' boots. The thing is now that Torres is nearing fitness once he is playing all the time NGog will drop back to the bench. Id like to see Rafa employ a 4-4-2 system and play them together up front. I think he will benefit more from having Torres on the pitch with him too.

by **Reg** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:52 am

The point is Ngog was never intended to go straight into the first team and the Torres injury created a false situation. The lad cant believe his luck but I dont understand why the BH we dont have someone better in the reserves able to share the pressure of being point man at LFC. I mean WTF is going on at the academy etc.. if a young Ngog with no first team/cup experience is our best striker after Torres then the club really is in the :censored:

.

by **Owzat** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:44 am

Maybe part of the problem is, up until now, Rafa has been reluctant to give the kids a chance - at least the ones coming through the ranks and not bought. So there is no entry into the team, noone on the bench getting experience. So what Rafa bought is it, and we're looking at players he has brought in like Lucas, Cavalieri, Babel, Voronin, Kyrgiakos, Dossena, Degen and El Zhar and shaking our heads saying "not good enough". That's around 1/3 of our 1st team squad, just the clear cut instances that most would agree with (although I include Lucas not because I don't rate him, but because he clearly isn't but LFC fans generally) That leaves around 16-17 players deemed "good enough" of which two are LBs, Riera is "jury out", you can't but we do play three CBs (Carra, Skrtel and Agger), Aquilani is not risked or injured, so the whole squad is a mess.

Perhaps the key problem is that there is little or no competition for places, again down to the squad. Our clear cut 1st choices aren't performing and the alternatives are unlikely to get a game. When Johnson isn't available we turn to Carra at RB, or play three CBs, or do something out of the ordinary. We play two DMs because Rafa won't drop Gerrard back into midfield (rightly or wrongly), Kuyt and Benayoun have played in every Premiership game and the only alternative to Torres is pretty much N'Gog, when starting N'Gog and leaving Torres on the bench Rafa is slated. We have two strikers left from 06/07, Kuyt and Voronin. Neither is deemed good enough to play that role, we have little continuity within the squad and those players fans love are underperforming. I wouldn't play Mascherano in games like Pompey and Wolves, would Rafa leave Mascherano out against Wolves? (if he had/has the choice) If we want to play 4-4-2 do we have the players? If we play two strikers do we have the supply? It comes to something when we are playing a LB at LM, one who hasn't played in any of the last THIRTEEN league games

by **Thinkpad** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:51 am

I like NGog.. unfortunately I think he is being wasted here. So I think it is best if he leave for his own future. But if we get a new manager, who can develop youth better and able to use the strength of the team rather than mold it to how he want's it played... Then he should stay, otherwise for Ngog owns future he should leave... "True fans" may not want to hear this, but that's the honorable truth.. Poor Ngog.

by **Espionage** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:53 pm

Ngog hit the nail on the head in his pre-match interview: "It is all about confidence"

He came into the Tottenham game with loads of confidence, and instead of messing up his tricks and dribbling indirectly just seemed to be on fire from the second he came on. I did say in pre-season of last year that the player was going to make it, and I will put my hand up if he doesnt.

Great performance from him and I hope he moves on from here.

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:58 pm

Thing is, he seemed to do alright in a cameo role, when we were 1-0 up, and we needed to put them on the back foot by running at their defence. We know he has pace, and the Spudz defence is a bit shaky...
So I'm not reading too much into last night's performance.
When he has played from the start, he tends to be a bit more loose with his play. So I think the jury is out at the moment.
Still, kudos to him for last night's performance...

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:13 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:Thing is, he seemed to do alright in a cameo role, when we were 1-0 up, and we needed to put them on the back foot by running at their defence. We know he has pace, and the Spudz defence is a bit shaky...
So I'm not reading too much into last night's performance.
When he has played from the start, he tends to be a bit more loose with his play. So I think the jury is out at the moment.
Still, kudos to him for last night's performance...

Agreed. I think he works best off the bench, particularly late on against tired legs. He has a good knack for tangling defenders up and earning free kicks and spot kicks.

by **Sabre** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:42 pm

"being good enough for Liverpool" are major words, not something that anyone can say.

But I think it's fair to say he is progressing, the spanish pundit of tv added, that it's nice to see a player that grows when the big stars are absent, for a change.

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:53 pm

dont care what anyone says N'gog is never ever gonna make it at Liverpool. He simply dosnt have enough to make it as a striker at this level. He's big, but not strong enough to hold the ball up against the big defenders. He's tall, but a joke in the air. He has decent pace but is hardly lightning, his shootings ok and so on. He's average to decent at most things but dosnt have any outstanding attributes, to make it at the top who have to very good at something and N'gog isnt. Im no fan of Ryan Babel, but if he cant in the team ahead of the likes of N'gog and Degen he has a right to feel insulted.

by **Fauxy** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:20 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:dont care what anyone says N'gog is never ever gonna make it at Liverpool. He simply dosnt have enough to make it as a striker at this level. He's big, but not strong enough to hold the ball up against the big defenders. He's tall, but a joke in the air. He has decent pace but is hardly lightning, his shootings ok and so on. He's average to decent at most things but dosnt have any outstanding attributes, to make it at the top who have to very good at something and N'gog isnt. Im no fan of Ryan Babel, but if he cant in the team ahead of the likes of N'gog and Degen he has a right to feel insulted.

Completely disagree with that last part mate.

Babel may indeed have more potential than N'gog, but that isnt the difference between the two of them as to why N'gog plays and Babel doesnt.

The difference my friend, is that N'gog works his @ss off and has a great attitude. Babel is lazy on the pitch and has a lazy attitude. He moans that he doesnt get enough first team chances and gets into a row with the manager. I think a player like that deserves to be on the bench.

Why should Babel have 'the right to feel insulted' ?? I would say that N'gog is ahead of him. He contributes a lot more.

by **roberto green** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:56 pm

I think he could be a very good player, the lad needs to be given some time to grow and I think it is really unfair that some fans deem him not good enough when he is so young and when he is replacing possibly the best striker in the world.

He has been improving all season and when he come on last night he seemed full of confidence (albeit against a tiring offensive team), you could see his quality.I know it has been hard this season because how bad this season has been and things are under the spotlight more when the chips are down but I think having a go(or ngog

) at the young players is wrong because we will strip them of any confidence they are trying to gain.

by **roberto green** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:58 pm

Fauxy wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:dont care what anyone says N'gog is never ever gonna make it at Liverpool. He simply dosnt have enough to make it as a striker at this level. He's big, but not strong enough to hold the ball up against the big defenders. He's tall, but a joke in the air. He has decent pace but is hardly lightning, his shootings ok and so on. He's average to decent at most things but dosnt have any outstanding attributes, to make it at the top who have to very good at something and N'gog isnt. Im no fan of Ryan Babel, but if he cant in the team ahead of the likes of N'gog and Degen he has a right to feel insulted.

Completely disagree with that last part mate.

Babel may indeed have more potential than N'gog, but that isnt the difference between the two of them as to why N'gog plays and Babel doesnt.

The difference my friend, is that N'gog works his @ss off and has a great attitude. Babel is lazy on the pitch and has a lazy attitude. He moans that he doesnt get enough first team chances and gets into a row with the manager. I think a player like that deserves to be on the bench.

Why should Babel have 'the right to feel insulted' ?? I would say that N'gog is ahead of him. He contributes a lot more.

Spot on

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