Sack Him - All Venting In Here Please

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby account deleted by request » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:01 pm

big al wrote:It was mentioned here that Rafa's training methods might be contributing to injury.  I would say that the opposite is true.  Benitez has spend a considerably amout of time and energy into insuring that the training regime at Melwood is second to none in the world of football.  Its true that some of his younger players struggle to follow the programme Rafa has for them but that's a different matter.  Anyone who would criticise Rafa Benitez for his training regime is vastly inderestimating his qualities.  He has it down to a tee.  Try another angle. Training, fitness, diet and recovery is what makes Rafa an exceptional coach.  His failings are elsewhere.

And yet every season people on here claim that its because of injuries we failed to challenge, and even Rafa has said that we spent too much time on conditioning which left the players tired during games. (Just before Pako left)

Almost every season we have had a poor start to the season (barring the last one)and this season we looked shattered in our early games.

So no mate I can't say I agree.
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Postby GRAHAM01 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:05 pm

big al wrote:It was mentioned here that Rafa's training methods might be contributing to injury.  I would say that the opposite is true.  Benitez has spend a considerably amout of time and energy into insuring that the training regime at Melwood is second to none in the world of football.  Its true that some of his younger players struggle to follow the programme Rafa has for them but that's a different matter.  Anyone who would criticise Rafa Benitez for his training regime is vastly inderestimating his qualities.  He has it down to a tee.  Try another angle. Training, fitness, diet and recovery is what makes Rafa an exceptional coach.  His failings are elsewhere.

i did say about the injury training thing but more as in a question as have things been changed?? i'm not saying that rafa's is the reason players are getting more injurys just asking if it could be a change of things that have helped towards it??

i understand you believe his training is the best way and that is fine but you and i are not players doing the training, there COULD have been little changes made that just do not help some players (like i said could??)
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:22 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
Owzat wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:What is the likely hood of a top manager wanting to come to LFC ? Serious question . In my humble opinion as a scouse fan (i know , i know it's a very embarresing for our oot support to be associated with a scouser,god forbid hey) no top manager in there right mind would touch us witha bargepoll in our clubs present state. Mourinho and Hiddink leaving there cushy little numbers to manage at ouir shambles of a club . Can we have some realism here please , because the managers we will be looking at will be your middle of the road used to working with a tight budget mid table type managers.

Maybe thats what we need Igor, rather than a manager who thinks he can spend millions on players for the reserves like Houllier did?

Rafa came in as a manager who could win the title without spending big money. £200million later and we are still waiting. Maybe we need a manager that can get the best out of what we have, rather than trying to buy success with no money.

LIKE?

I've heard of this bloke, only a rumour like, but people say he has won three Premiership titles against the odds and without the funds that Chelsea and Man Utd have enjoyed. In fact he's rumoured to have won the league without losing a single game, most say "pah, you're making it up", but I truly believe in this 'god'.

I'm wondering if this rumoured bloke might be the man in charge of the team currently lying second, a team that was widely tipped to drop out of the 'big four' and make way for big spending Man City. The only games they've lost this season are in the city of manchester itself, unfortunate to lose against the bigger of the two sides.

It's also rumoured they play a flowing brand of attractive football, maybe it sometimes lacks an end product as they try to walk the ball into the net, but they are the top scorers in the Premiership with the biggest GD.

Maybe we won't get Arsene Wenger, but I'd rather buy him out of his contract and spend £39m on securing his services than see what Rafa signs next.

Yeh but rafa 's won more than Arsen since being in England . Arsens side has won feck all for how long ..

I said be realistic ffs.

Oh i forgot they do play sexy football for all that gets them .

O do me a favor he done the double twice and went a whole season with out losing 1 game get a grip.
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Postby GRAHAM01 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:25 pm

oh good afternoon dazzer had a good day have we :D :D
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:29 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:How has O'Neill done well saint , what has he done ?

Surley we only aim for the best managers out there saint , we don't do also rans do we ?

I find it hard to believe that you've never heard of Houllier and Rafa before they came to LFC mate , they were house hold names on the continent mate .Especially rafa .

Igor Just bacause a manager hasn't won something don't mean they couldn't come to liverpool and win something.Also it works other way around.

Paisley was unproven before he managed liverpool.
Even Shankly didn't have an awesome background before joining Liverpool.

My point is you might turn your nose down on so many managers who you think are not up to the job but think about it if you was around in those days and had the choice the way you pick your managers now might have had an effect on geting those two managers like Paisley/Shankly.Who in your eyes ain't really won much.
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:32 pm

GRAHAM01 wrote:oh good afternoon dazzer had a good day have we :D :D

Hi mate yeah been ok I am just bit sick of this whole Only Rafa can do the liverpool job its fecking daft like.  :O
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:32 pm

Dazzer don't insult people mate, its the first decent discussion we have had about Rafa where no one has been flinging insults around.
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:33 pm

s@int wrote:Dazzer don't insult people mate, its the first decent discussion we have had about Rafa where no one has been flinging insults around.

Yeah fair point Just got my back up a bit way some people will talk about Rafa as he is like some god of football.

Sorry Igor for that comment.
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Postby GRAHAM01 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Dazzer wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:oh good afternoon dazzer had a good day have we :D :D

Hi mate yeah been ok I am just bit sick of this whole Only Rafa can do the liverpool job its fecking daft like.  :O

this at the moment is moving in to the - if rafa was to go who would we get that could do a good job not just do A job but a good job

many have put moreen and hiddink but i and others have put forward o neil and in my mind would do a good job for us as he has done very well.
again this is in my eyes and i think he has done a very good job at villa and even before his move to villa

what do you think?

edited to make sence  :sniffle
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Postby Ola Mr Benitez » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 pm

I rate MON.  Ok he hasnt won much (if anything) with Villa, but who would.  What you have to look at is how he has imporved their style of play and unltimatly their results.  He is a good man manager, who gets good performances out of average players.

My thinking is he could get excellemt performances out of our good players and that could be the difference we need.


I like Rafa, he is 100% behind Liverpool.  He loves the club and he loves the city, but is he really squeezing all he can out of a first 11 that on paper is brilliant and should be challenging for the Premiership every year. 

Its a hard call for me to make.. everyday (in fact 3 times when writing this) I change my mind, do we sack him or give him another chance.. ?
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:40 pm

GRAHAM01 wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:oh good afternoon dazzer had a good day have we :D :D

Hi mate yeah been ok I am just bit sick of this whole Only Rafa can do the liverpool job its fecking daft like.  :O

this at the moment is moving in to the - if rafa was to go who would we get that could do a good job not just do A job but a good job

many have put moreen and hiddink but i and others have put forward o neil how i my mind would do a good job for us as he has done very well again this is in my eyes a very good job at villa and even before his move to villa

what do you think?

I still think a good british manager could do a ideal job for us feck all this europe based managers I wanna see a manager who has real respect for this club and what it has done who remembers watching them week in week out as a kid and knows the passion we liverpool fans have to win the prem.

I know Rafa loves this club But I still really doubt if he really gets how important it is for us to win the prem.

but is he really squeezing all he can out of a first 11 that on paper is brilliant and should be challenging for the Premiership every year.


Agree with this alot I mean I think also Rafa lacks in man management area.I think its something that hurts us most of time more then who Rafa has bought.I think there is more tallent in the team then its showing atm.I think if we has someone who would rally the troops better we would be showing better form then we are now.
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Postby GRAHAM01 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:49 pm

Dazzer wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:oh good afternoon dazzer had a good day have we :D :D

Hi mate yeah been ok I am just bit sick of this whole Only Rafa can do the liverpool job its fecking daft like.  :O

this at the moment is moving in to the - if rafa was to go who would we get that could do a good job not just do A job but a good job

many have put moreen and hiddink but i and others have put forward o neil how i my mind would do a good job for us as he has done very well again this is in my eyes a very good job at villa and even before his move to villa

what do you think?

I still think a good british manager could do a ideal job for us feck all this europe based managers I wanna see a manager who has real respect for this club and what it has done who remembers watching them week in week out as a kid and knows the passion we liverpool fans have to win the prem.

I know Rafa loves this club But I still really doubt if he really gets how important it is for us to win the prem.

sorry for the poor writting in the first post


anyway i think you are right in that rafa does love this club and i think he is giving every last thing he can to make it work and i hope and pray he can do what he really wants and wins something this year, the man would give his life for this club (imo)

i'm not sure MON would (if he come in to the club) come in saying this and that about the club and the history, i think he would want to come in saying lets make some new history, get his arm around some of the players that need it and MAYBE get something out of them that rafa is not able to do so
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Postby big al » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:52 pm

Saint the problem this season is that Rafa did'nt allow his first team time on the pitch before we met Spurs.  We were a yard short of pace compared to them he had insist on a crazy concept of blooding the younsters who he has since failed to trust.  I was impressed by the contributions Ayala and San Jose made in these friendlies yet Rafa has now kept faith with them.  Instead he has bought a Greek guy whos near the end of his career.  I don't think too many people would complain if these guys had made the mistake at Lyon.  Wenger got stick for playing youngsters but in the end this paid off for him.  Graham Sorry if I seemed over critical of your point. You make a fair comment but focusing injuries detracts from the other moreglaring issues such as

1 Poor man management. Alonso said it all in an interview with Madrid. He should know.
2 Refusal to change his substitution policy not before the hour (facts speak louder than me)
3 Adhering to a system that only works when there is quality throughout.  He changed it for Man U and look at the outcome.
4 Failure to go for the jugular when an opponent is down
5 Continuing to play players out of position allowing them to be scape goated for his managerial failings (Lucas is a defensive mid-fielder, asking him to play Alonso role is nonsense and unfair on the lad)
6 Poor judgement in his signings but particularill letting nemeth go on loan and not selling Vorinin when he had the chance.
7 Putting ondue pressure on his players by highlighting that we were top last season, no one noticed until he opened his gob.
8 Acting tough and failing to recognise the input of Paco Ayestran by giving him the pay rise he deserved.
9 Appointing a defensive coach that has no concept of how to mark and play in the premiership, his other coaches are rubbish and wee Sammy should not be assistant manager he's a coach not a tactician his Bolton record tells you that.
10 Threatening to leave if he did not get 'carte blanche' and sack most of the backroom staff, 2 liverpool legends a youth development officer whose boots he'd never have been able to lace.
11 Interfering too much in the goings on upstairs and therefore getting caught up in the politics which is not his remit.  His siding with Hicks contributed to Parry's leaving.
12 Rafa's last quality is the most damning ' its his failure to learn from anyone else' This is his sixth season with one clear target win the premiership.  He failed and he will continue to fail fundementally because he is not a manager.  He a great coach, a great tactician, his preparation is second to none but in order to win the premiership you need to be able to adapt and change. 

Last night Birmingham were down and out for 26 minutes.  Mcfadden was pretending to limp because Johnstone had made a wee boy out of him.  Mcfadden had given up. McLeish made a substitution which may well have been forced due to injury but it changed the game.  They harried and crowded Lucas becasue they knew he was not a natural ball player.  The result was Liverpool were confined to loong range shots, which were poorly executed.  A lucky free kick and McFaddenwas suddenly resurrected.  No fear of Liverpool then a great but Jammy goal It make me cringe.  In thse first 26 minutes had we a striker who was only capable of 70% of Torres ability the game would have been one.  We had'nt so then why not just go 4-4-2 as with Man U why not kill them off when they were in complete disarray.  Same with Lyon twice, Fulham, Sunderland.  Last season it was the same.  Rafa does not know went he has an opponent down.  Mr Cautious Rafael Benitez  Is it The SAS motto 'who dares wins' And for those Rafa Die hards who cry about bad luck 'Fortune favours the brave'  Have some balls Rafa your jobs on the line.  City wil beat us Debrcen will have a go because it us and Everton should well be Rafa's Waterloo Unless he changes his stupid insistence to play a formation for which we lack the quality of personel he had available at Valencia.
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:53 pm

GRAHAM01 wrote:sorry for the poor writting in the first post


anyway i think you are right in that rafa does love this club and i think he is giving every last thing he can to make it work and i hope and pray he can do what he really wants and wins something this year, the man would give his life for this club (imo)

i'm not sure MON would (if he come in to the club) come in saying this are that about the club and the history, i think he would want to come in saying lets make some new history, get his arm around some of the players that need it and MAYBE get something out of them that rafa is not able to do so

I think MON would be mad to leave villa atm any ways to join liverpool he got it nice there atm and would be mental to leave for any job.

I think we need to be looking at a hodgson type manager a guy that has seen it all likes to play direct attacking football but not long ball.Also a good ma manager who knows the prem inside out.Also a manager who will say feck it to CL and put every effort into winning the league.For me league is what you set out to win every year and the CL is a bonus if you team is playing very well.For me Rafa always has his eyes on CL and hopes to win the prem.
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Postby Dazzer » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:58 pm

big al wrote:Saint the problem this season is that Rafa did'nt allow his first team time on the pitch before we met Spurs.  We were a yard short of pace compared to them he had insist on a crazy concept of blooding the younsters who he has since failed to trust.  I was impressed by the contributions Ayala and San Jose made in these friendlies yet Rafa has now kept faith with them.  Instead he has bought a Greek guy whos near the end of his career.  I don't think too many people would complain if these guys had made the mistake at Lyon.  Wenger got stick for playing youngsters but in the end this paid off for him.  Graham Sorry if I seemed over critical of your point. You make a fair comment but focusing injuries detracts from the other moreglaring issues such as

1 Poor man management. Alonso said it all in an interview with Madrid. He should know.
2 Refusal to change his substitution policy not before the hour (facts speak louder than me)
3 Adhering to a system that only works when there is quality throughout.  He changed it for Man U and look at the outcome.
4 Failure to go for the jugular when an opponent is down
5 Continuing to play players out of position allowing them to be scape goated for his managerial failings (Lucas is a defensive mid-fielder, asking him to play Alonso role is nonsense and unfair on the lad)
6 Poor judgement in his signings but particularill letting nemeth go on loan and not selling Vorinin when he had the chance.
7 Putting ondue pressure on his players by highlighting that we were top last season, no one noticed until he opened his gob.
8 Acting tough and failing to recognise the input of Paco Ayestran by giving him the pay rise he deserved.
9 Appointing a defensive coach that has no concept of how to mark and play in the premiership, his other coaches are rubbish and wee Sammy should not be assistant manager he's a coach not a tactician his Bolton record tells you that.
10 Threatening to leave if he did not get 'carte blanche' and sack most of the backroom staff, 2 liverpool legends a youth development officer whose boots he'd never have been able to lace.
11 Interfering too much in the goings on upstairs and therefore getting caught up in the politics which is not his remit.  His siding with Hicks contributed to Parry's leaving.
12 Rafa's last quality is the most damning ' its his failure to learn from anyone else' This is his sixth season with one clear target win the premiership.  He failed and he will continue to fail fundementally because he is not a manager.  He a great coach, a great tactician, his preparation is second to none but in order to win the premiership you need to be able to adapt and change. 

Last night Birmingham were down and out for 26 minutes.  Mcfadden was pretending to limp because Johnstone had made a wee boy out of him.  Mcfadden had given up. McLeish made a substitution which may well have been forced due to injury but it changed the game.  They harried and crowded Lucas becasue they knew he was not a natural ball player.  The result was Liverpool were confined to loong range shots, which were poorly executed.  A lucky free kick and McFaddenwas suddenly resurrected.  No fear of Liverpool then a great but Jammy goal It make me cringe.  In thse first 26 minutes had we a striker who was only capable of 70% of Torres ability the game would have been one.  We had'nt so then why not just go 4-4-2 as with Man U why not kill them off when they were in complete disarray.  Same with Lyon twice, Fulham, Sunderland.  Last season it was the same.  Rafa does not know went he has an opponent down.  Mr Cautious Rafael Benitez  Is it The SAS motto 'who dares wins' And for those Rafa Die hards who cry about bad luck 'Fortune favours the brave'  Have some balls Rafa your jobs on the line.  City wil beat us Debrcen will have a go because it us and Everton should well be Rafa's Waterloo Unless he changes his stupid insistence to play a formation for which we lack the quality of personel he had available at Valencia.

Spot on we are crying out to play a flat 4-4-2 vs Broomys and I would dare to say with the players we has could have even gone 3-4-3 and droped masch , Moved Johnson to right mid and insua to left mid.

I think Rafa lacks agression in alot of games last season was same yet we had more luck , few sendings off spring to mind.I also think people who say we have no luck might wanna look at ngog pen and chose there words better.  :nod
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