Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:13 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Owzat wrote:We might have had Aquilani on the bench because we were struggling for numbers to put on the bench and Rafa wanted what quality and experience was available with Lucas and Mascherano fit so no real need to risk Aquilani from the start. But it's all speculation, even if Rafa came out and stated why Aquilani didn't feature I'm not sure it would necessarily be the truth - especially after his BS over withdrawing Torres who is apparently at risk if he plays more than 63 mins at Craven Cottage but not so much if he plays 87 in France

Sitting Aquilani on the bench won't get him fit, a bit of playing time for the first XI or reserves will.

Ever been injured or have a flu playing a football match?

If he was in such bad shape why have him on the bench though?

He wasn't in such a bad shape. He's probably fit enough to come off the bench, but not yet match fit. There is a big difference between being fit and match fit. Also, if you've just had a cold, or flu, then your energy levels aren't great. I've tried playing a match before with a bit of it. You feel fine at first, but as soon as you try and turn on a bit of pace, you've no energy at all. Another thing about not being match fit is that towards the end of a game, about the last 15 minutes or so, you're completely f*cked. All you're thinking about is getting off the field. Riera was the same for us when he first started playing. He could never make it the full 90. Aquilani being on the bench was more to do with simply making up the numbers. If either Lucas or Mascharano got injured, then someone with a bit of quality needed to come on, even if it meant a half fit Aquilani. I don't think Rafa had any intentions of playing him at all considering how well the Masch and Lucas partnership was working in the middle. Why change it when it was as effective as it was? Only an injury would have seen him take to the pitch.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 pm

Big Niall wrote:I think his signings have been terrible, he has a few good ones (Alonso,Torres,Reina) but the rest? £13m for Babel who isn't a regular, £10 for Kuyt, Keane in and out at a loss of £10m in a few months, Lucas?, how many god damn full backs did he sign before he realised that Finnan (who had already been there) was the best, then once Finnan got old how many other full backs?, Vorinin is one of the worst players I have ever seen up front for LFC, he drove Alonso out, SG was obviously already there and he drives the team.

He is a poor judge of player,has wasted a fortune and leaves us no better (and much poorer).

We might have to put up with him though due to the insane decision to give him a long(ish)contract so recently - can we afford to get rid of him?

I'd love it if Madrid came in for him and we could offload him for free.

Where are you getting your facts from? It was 11 for Babel, and the Keane deal works out eventually at roughly a 2 million loss. Lucas? What about Lucas? We got him for 6 million, and judging from his recent run in the team, he's starting to look like a decent buy for that. The lad has put in some quality performances lately. I'd take him in a heartbeat over the 17million quids worth Anderson. And who drove Alonso out? You've been reading too much of the d*ckhead press and swallowing their sh*te. That's nothing but conjecture.

I thought we'd the most knowledgeable fans in the world?

BTW, you can't expect to pay less than 7-10 million for an international player in a top seeded side in ANY position, so using the argument of paying 10 and 11 million for the likes of Kuyt and Babel is just f*cking stupid. How many important goals have those two scored for us? Bet you weren't screaming 10 or 11 million pounds worth of sh*te then.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:38 pm

Big Niall wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
Big Niall wrote:I think his signings have been terrible, he has a few good ones (Alonso,Torres,Reina) but the rest? £13m for Babel who isn't a regular, £10 for Kuyt, Keane in and out at a loss of £10m in a few months, Lucas?, how many god damn full backs did he sign before he realised that Finnan (who had already been there) was the best, then once Finnan got old how many other full backs?, Vorinin is one of the worst players I have ever seen up front for LFC, he drove Alonso out, SG was obviously already there and he drives the team.

He is a poor judge of player,has wasted a fortune and leaves us no better (and much poorer).

We might have to put up with him though due to the insane decision to give him a long(ish)contract so recently - can we afford to get rid of him?

I'd love it if Madrid came in for him and we could offload him for free.

The rubbish posted on here gets worse by the day .

As both McAteer and Aldo have both said - the critics on the forums and phone ins should shut and get behind the manager and support him .

You say most of his signings been rubbish yet name 5 one of which is far from a rubbish signing.

What the others then

Crouch
Momo
Garcia
Agger
Skittles
Johnson
Masher
Yossi etc etc

Kuyt a rubbish signing ?!?!? just look at what the guy has produced for us .

Simply supporting the manager is for the simple, if we all did that Souness would still be manager. As for the players you mention

If the players you mentioned were that good we'd have won the league by now, Most years under Benitez we didn't even compete for it (again this year)

Again the sh*te you talk:

Crouch - We got Torres; he couldn't hack sitting on the bench; b*tched about first team football and wanted a move. Admitedly, he was treated somewhat harshly, but he wasn't prepared to sit on the bench. Expensive buy? He's an England international - English players usually cost the Earth. We got our money back.

Sissoko - Sissoko wasn't in the side to pass the ball. He was in the side to break down the play; to be the destroyer. He did a quality job for us, but like so many, once they get badly injured, he just wasn't the same. We made a big profit on him. Nuff said.

Garcia - Quality little player. The kind of player we need right now. Could accept sitting on the bench, good professional, unlike Crouch and Keane. Scored MASSIVE goals for us. I'd take him back in a heartbeat. Our squad right now is crying out for him. Can come from the bench and give a spark of genius.

Agger - Wasn't given first choice? He's been injured. Don't you keep up with our injuries. His back has been giving him sh*t for well over a year.

Johnson - 18 million - again, what you expect to pay for any quality first choice international, especially if he's English. Rio Ferdinand?

Mascherano - 18 million pounds worth for arguably the best holding midfielder on the planet. That's peanuts for such a world class holding Argentine international, who also captains his country. We'd make close to tripple that on him if the likes of Madrid or City want to come calling with no trouble at all. Good at tackling you say? Doh! That's what he's there for.

I'm done replying to these kinds of post. See what some on here know about football, I could write on the back of a stamp.

by **DAV** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:53 pm

i actually kind of agree with emerald.Except on Lucas, buts thats just my opinion as i don't rate him atall
all i would say its not the players we have thats the problems its the back up we don't have thats the problem.

by **Thinkpad** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:27 am

Sack or not to sack.... I'll say sack him but I can't decide when would be a good time. Now or at the end of the league. Timing seems to be everything. Like it or not we are in a bad position even for change a manager.

Liverpool board seems to think sticking with him is a better choice.
However, this can pose a bigger problem than sacking him.
The way I look at it, the players may already loss a lot of faith on their manager.
If this is true I cannot see them pulling their socks up to fight the big fight (stay in top four).
Rumours of problems on the grounds has been circulating for a while. Just that many choose to ignored.
Body language of players and under par performance may just be the hint of those problems that we missed.
Can the players now play for the current manager to bring some success and stay in top four?
If this is a doubt does it change your opinion and allegiance to the manager? Many proclaim their allegiance is with the club and manager. Ironically, it comes a time such allegiance contradict each other. So where does your allegiance really lies? The next two games will probably show us where the players' trust lies.
I know where my allegiance lies, it's with the club and never a person.

If we stick with Rafa and wait until the world cup is over would it be a better time? I believe it will be. But circumstances at the club may spin out of control before we even reach WC. So it is a dilemma for me. For me the situation has progressed away from sacking Rafa or not to when would be a good time. What would be the best for the club's best interest is my primary concern. Rafa shows he just doesn't have the capacity to win the league. What I saw was a constant rebuilding from ground up every year for 5 years. There isn't time to stop rebuilding and actually grow. Enough is enough... Let's move on.

by **lakes10** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:18 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Big Niall wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
Big Niall wrote:I think his signings have been terrible, he has a few good ones (Alonso,Torres,Reina) but the rest? £13m for Babel who isn't a regular, £10 for Kuyt, Keane in and out at a loss of £10m in a few months, Lucas?, how many god damn full backs did he sign before he realised that Finnan (who had already been there) was the best, then once Finnan got old how many other full backs?, Vorinin is one of the worst players I have ever seen up front for LFC, he drove Alonso out, SG was obviously already there and he drives the team.

He is a poor judge of player,has wasted a fortune and leaves us no better (and much poorer).

We might have to put up with him though due to the insane decision to give him a long(ish)contract so recently - can we afford to get rid of him?

I'd love it if Madrid came in for him and we could offload him for free.

The rubbish posted on here gets worse by the day .

As both McAteer and Aldo have both said - the critics on the forums and phone ins should shut and get behind the manager and support him .

You say most of his signings been rubbish yet name 5 one of which is far from a rubbish signing.

What the others then

Crouch
Momo
Garcia
Agger
Skittles
Johnson
Masher
Yossi etc etc

Kuyt a rubbish signing ?!?!? just look at what the guy has produced for us .

Simply supporting the manager is for the simple, if we all did that Souness would still be manager. As for the players you mention

If the players you mentioned were that good we'd have won the league by now, Most years under Benitez we didn't even compete for it (again this year)

Again the sh*te you talk:

Crouch - We got Torres; he couldn't hack sitting on the bench; b*tched about first team football and wanted a move. Admitedly, he was treated somewhat harshly, but he wasn't prepared to sit on the bench. Expensive buy? He's an England international - English players usually cost the Earth. We got our money back.

Sissoko - Sissoko wasn't in the side to pass the ball. He was in the side to break down the play; to be the destroyer. He did a quality job for us, but like so many, once they get badly injured, he just wasn't the same. We made a big profit on him. Nuff said.

Garcia - Quality little player. The kind of player we need right now. Could accept sitting on the bench, good professional, unlike Crouch and Keane. Scored MASSIVE goals for us. I'd take him back in a heartbeat. Our squad right now is crying out for him. Can come from the bench and give a spark of genius.

Agger - Wasn't given first choice? He's been injured. Don't you keep up with our injuries. His back has been giving him sh*t for well over a year.

Johnson - 18 million - again, what you expect to pay for any quality first choice international, especially if he's English. Rio Ferdinand?

Mascherano - 18 million pounds worth for arguably the best holding midfielder on the planet. That's peanuts for such a world class holding Argentine international, who also captains his country. We'd make close to tripple that on him if the likes of Madrid or City want to come calling with no trouble at all. Good at tackling you say? Doh! That's what he's there for.

I'm done replying to these kinds of post. See what some on here know about football, I could write on the back of a stamp.

there now a thread for the pro fans (asked for by the pro fans)
so you should post you pro views on there, it will give you less stress lol

by **DAV** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:46 pm

Just to continue from my previous post.
As Emerald said the amount we payed for players, isnt the problem.
Babel- decent price could of been great not worked out for him
Lucas - my opinion the same as above
Voronin - Free, not worked out.

The key for me was aquilani, any chairman would surely say to the manager, you have the money its your desicion go buy him. However this will the biggest gamble you have taken as manager. Talent wise i dont think anyone can argue that he has it. However you could be in a position if it all goes wrong (which it has) that your season is in tatters by the time the guy is fit.
So unless we get a miracle in europe and we go on a long unbeaten run in the premiership then surely this is only one persons fault.
When everyone new we needed another stiker, i am sure with our scouting network with 20million available could of found a decent striker and central midfielder in this budget.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:49 pm

DAV wrote:Just to continue from my previous post.
As Emerald said the amount we payed for players, isnt the problem.
Babel- decent price could of been great not worked out for him
Lucas - my opinion the same as above
Voronin - Free, not worked out.

The key for me was aquilani, any chairman would surely say to the manager, you have the money its your desicion go buy him. However this will the biggest gamble you have taken as manager. Talent wise i dont think anyone can argue that he has it. However you could be in a position if it all goes wrong (which it has) that your season is in tatters by the time the guy is fit.
So unless we get a miracle in europe and we go on a long unbeaten run in the premiership then surely this is only one persons fault.
When everyone new we needed another stiker, i am sure with our scouting network with 20million available could of found a decent striker and central midfielder in this budget.

You're right. Aquilani: huge gamble, but as luck would have it, I don't think anyone could have forseen the scale of the injury problems we've had and as a result it's really turned what potentially was a great buy given the right circumstances into what looks like a blunder due to the fact that we are now in a mess in the league and CL. Naturally enough, it's something that will now be use as ammunition against Benitez. It was risky on his behalf, and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for that, but not all of it I feel. He was as much a victim of circumstances as he was his own folly. Regardless, the player is almost fit now, and should now start to impress upon us what the big deal was and why he was worth such a gamble. At least I hope so, or we all hope so. Torres was a similar kind of buy (albeit he wasn't inured of course) but he was relatively unproven in a foreign league, was big bucks at the time, and the pressure was on for him to make an instant impact. The rest is history there. I think when it comes to gambles and big money signings - for us at least - the manager has got it bang on the money, with the obvious acception of Keane, but he got quickly jinged out the door in fairness.

As for Lucas, well, I'm not saying he's been a revelation as such, but he's starting to find his feet finally. Most would disagree due to his past antics, but his past few games have shown that he really does have a value in the squad, and for the price we paid, it's starting to look like a very worthwhile investment. He's still young and getting better, which is a good sign. We've had dozens of players through the years that started off badly and ended up being stalwarts in the side. Carragher to name just one. I remember him scoring OG's for fun at one stage. Not great for any CB to do, but look at him now. Then again, I'm sure we could at least probably double our money on the Brazilian should he surplus in the near future. The problem is finding a similar player for his role that's better to replace with.

As for our squad, Rafa should be putting the likes of Pacheco and Nemeth on the bench for games, now that more than five are allowed to sit at games. He should never have loaned Nemeth out IMO. He'd be a far better option than that gobshyte Voronin. This is what pickles my brain about Rafa's thinking. I was gutted when he took him back.

by **only me** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:39 pm

DAV wrote:Just to continue from my previous post.
As Emerald said the amount we payed for players, isnt the problem.
Babel- decent price could of been great not worked out for him
Lucas - my opinion the same as above
Voronin - Free, not worked out.

The key for me was aquilani, any chairman would surely say to the manager, you have the money its your desicion go buy him. However this will the biggest gamble you have taken as manager. Talent wise i dont think anyone can argue that he has it. However you could be in a position if it all goes wrong (which it has) that your season is in tatters by the time the guy is fit.
So unless we get a miracle in europe and we go on a long unbeaten run in the premiership then surely this is only one persons fault.
When everyone new we needed another stiker, i am sure with our scouting network with 20million available could of found a decent striker and central midfielder in this budget.

Excellent post - this gamble on aquillani is unforgivable and not in any proffessional standard - Rafa know he would have Aqua at minimum in mid novemeber and in game fittness probably December ,considering what you had to keep the middle (Lucas & Mash) you should have know no balls will be pass to the attacks ,which again consists of only one top quality player ,that was plain stupid gamble decision which adding to other weaknesses in Rafa style of managment that should hand him the thank you and goodby note at the end of the season.

You Just can't gamble with a huge club as Liverpool.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:12 pm

Anyway......moving on....i read somewhere that we will be getting 100 million to spend on january.

Sorri....i don't have any source for this rumour...i just read it in some newspaper.

So the question is....if we really do have 100 million to spend in january....should we trust benitez with the money ?

Or do we give a call to mourinho and tell him that he will have 100 million to spend ?

....gotta run before the missles start raining in....... :wwww

by **Masch79** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:11 pm

The_Rock wrote:Anyway......moving on....i read somewhere that we will be getting 100 million to spend on january.

Sorri....i don't have any source for this rumour...i just read it in some newspaper.

I saw the £100m rumour too, think this is the article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport....it.html

by **muzza798** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:42 am

-Benitez will stay

-We'll get in the top 4 this season

-There will be major investment in the team next year

-All our big players will be fit and we'll probably have a deeper squad with a few 10 mil signings here and there for cover.

-We'll defo win something next year with the squad we'll have. Lets face it, if Aquilani was fit from day 1 we'd easiliy be in the top 2/3 by now and would of wiped the floor with chelski.

Lucus is decent but goes MIA in every game for atleast 20 mins. When Aquilani came on against ARS he was baging passes left, right and center, defending, going forward. He was a presence in the team. Lucus never plays any amazing balls which is basically his job, Never seeks the ball, is always too deep and has no pace to drop back when countered.

Rafa will easiliy be safe this season even though i previously thought otherwise. We all know deep down that its the injuries :censored:

this season up and yes its his fault that Raf's not bought a second team but its not worth sacking him over that and its not worth sacking him for the simple fact weve had some pretty big :censored:

injury problems.

by **zarababe** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:02 am

The_Rock wrote:Anyway......moving on....i read somewhere that we will be getting 100 million to spend on january.

Or do we give a call to mourinho and tell him that he will have 100 million to spend ? ....gotta run before the missles start raining in.......

......pure sacrilege....like re-selling your soul, having sold to the yanks... i'd stop supporting Liverpool....i'd :censored:

'in give him a wack in his goolies
:angry:

by **phil_cool** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:35 pm

muzza798 wrote:-Benitez will stay

-We'll get in the top 4 this season

-There will be major investment in the team next year

-All our big players will be fit and we'll probably have a deeper squad with a few 10 mil signings here and there for cover.

-We'll defo win something next year with the squad we'll have. Lets face it, if Aquilani was fit from day 1 we'd easiliy be in the top 2/3 by now and would of wiped the floor with chelski.

Lucus is decent but goes MIA in every game for atleast 20 mins. When Aquilani came on against ARS he was baging passes left, right and center, defending, going forward. He was a presence in the team. Lucus never plays any amazing balls which is basically his job, Never seeks the ball, is always too deep and has no pace to drop back when countered.

Rafa will easiliy be safe this season even though i previously thought otherwise. We all know deep down that its the injuries this season up and yes its his fault that Raf's not bought a second team but its not worth sacking him over that and its not worth sacking him for the simple fact weve had some pretty big injury problems.

And the prize for the earliest post saying 'next year we will win something ' goes to :-

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:48 am

ok with results going the way they are there is a very real danger that Rafa will walk or get sack.

now

what results do we need to get to stop him from going or getting the sack, i mean in the long run.
if we dont end up in the cl next year i think it will be very hard for him to keep his job....or being 4th and being 15 points off the top just as bad.

say we are going to have a bad year, how bad can it get and Rafa still have his job.

so get this right, i am not saying sack him, i am asking what can he get away with or what results do we need for him to still be our manager next year.

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