Liverpool FC Forum

Emerald Red wrote:

Owzat wrote:We might have had Aquilani on the bench because we were struggling for numbers to put on the bench and Rafa wanted what quality and experience was available with Lucas and Mascherano fit so no real need to risk Aquilani from the start. But it's all speculation, even if Rafa came out and stated why Aquilani didn't feature I'm not sure it would necessarily be the truth - especially after his BS over withdrawing Torres who is apparently at risk if he plays more than 63 mins at Craven Cottage but not so much if he plays 87 in France

Sitting Aquilani on the bench won't get him fit, a bit of playing time for the first XI or reserves will.

Ever been injured or have a flu playing a football match?

kazza wrote:

Festy wrote:can't defend him anymore as the club of our stature should not have lost so many games this early into the season.

Actually we have the sixth highest payroll in the prem, and we are sixth place in the league (see where I am going)

Bad Bob wrote:

bigmick wrote:In fairness people who are defenders of the faith moan about people "blaming everything on Rafa", and then with posters such as Heimdall they instantly give it the old "Oh FFS I don't believe this sh!t" even when he asks a perfectly reasonable question. It's not a question of "blaming everything on Rafa" (and I actually thought we played well the other night and said so a number of times) but there are legitimate questions. One of them of course is Aquilani. Obviously if he was fit enough to be on the bench he was capable of playing at least for some time, and it's a reasonable question to ask why he didn't. Now I don't really care whether he did or didn't to be perfectly honest, nor am I convinced he would have had an effect either way, but the question in itself is not ridiculous, as much as some people would prefer to pretend it is.

Similarly, I don't myself think taking Torres off "invited them onto us" anymore than would have been the case anyway. I do think it is legitimate though to question whether resting him for four minutes made any difference (I'd have taken him off much earlier to be honest), and also it is reasonable to ask whether putting on a defender rather than N'Gog might have been the call.

Equally, I think it's reasonable to ask whether we may have been better starting with Babel than Voronin (as I did before the match). 


Unfortunately though, as some people are so desperately keen to smother any sensible football debate and "stand up for the manager", the minute anybody asks a question they simply get shouted down which is a shame.

Would agree with you about the shouting down, Mick but I think part of why it happens is because Heimdall's "perfectly reasonable question" (to take one instance) was prefaced by "I'm starting to think Rafa's a bit dim".  Sadly, that takes what might ordinarily be construed as a reasonable question and bungs it deep into handbags country.  Maybe it's time to acknowledge that both 'camps' need to work a lot harder at fostering quality discussion around here.  Obviously I'm not condoning abuse but I'm not a big fan of the sly wind-ups that often start the ball rolling either.

But I didn't say that to wind anybody up, I genuinly do question Rafa's intelligence and tactical nouse, I thought I was phrasing it quite politely actually. 

Bad Bob wrote:

heimdall wrote:But I didn't say that to wind anybody up, I genuinly do question Rafa's intelligence and tactical nouse, I thought I was phrasing it quite politely actually. 

If you seriously meant it then you're more than a little dim yourself, mate.  I think questioning his decision-making is fair game--that's part of what a football forum's all about.  But to wonder whether the manager is a bit 'special' just because you don't especially agree with his decision making is well OTT. 

One of the biggest problems with this place (from a discussion point of view) is polarization, IMO.  Fair and balanced assessments of the kind generated by the likes of Scottbott, John Craig, Dundalk, Andy G, LFC2007 , JUDGEand several others (sorry if I missed you, you know who you are ) get overshadowed by dozens of people going to extremes.  Either Rafa's a "bit dim" or, as we read above, "has well and truly f.ucked us" making us "worse than we were 5 years ago" or he can never do any wrong and every setback is down to bad fortune, blind refs, beachballs, the owners or individual players that he somehow hasn't had anything to do with buying or training.  Lunacy!  Of course, when the discussion gets as polarized as it has, the insults and wind-ups fly and we're party to the internet version of a shouting match.  It would be a breath of fresh air if the lunatics stopped running the asylum for an hour or two on occasion and some insightful football discussion broke out.

without trying to start the russian doll posting, i would like to thank bob 

Judge wrote:

Bad Bob wrote:

heimdall wrote:But I didn't say that to wind anybody up, I genuinly do question Rafa's intelligence and tactical nouse, I thought I was phrasing it quite politely actually. 

If you seriously meant it then you're more than a little dim yourself, mate.  I think questioning his decision-making is fair game--that's part of what a football forum's all about.  But to wonder whether the manager is a bit 'special' just because you don't especially agree with his decision making is well OTT. 

One of the biggest problems with this place (from a discussion point of view) is polarization, IMO.  Fair and balanced assessments of the kind generated by the likes of Scottbott, John Craig, Dundalk, Andy G, LFC2007 , JUDGEand several others (sorry if I missed you, you know who you are ) get overshadowed by dozens of people going to extremes.  Either Rafa's a "bit dim" or, as we read above, "has well and truly f.ucked us" making us "worse than we were 5 years ago" or he can never do any wrong and every setback is down to bad fortune, blind refs, beachballs, the owners or individual players that he somehow hasn't had anything to do with buying or training.  Lunacy!  Of course, when the discussion gets as polarized as it has, the insults and wind-ups fly and we're party to the internet version of a shouting match.  It would be a breath of fresh air if the lunatics stopped running the asylum for an hour or two on occasion and some insightful football discussion broke out.

without trying to start the russian doll posting, i would like to thank bob 

   

heimdall wrote:But I didn't say that to wind anybody up, I genuinly do question Rafa's intelligence and tactical nouse, I thought I was phrasing it quite politely actually. 

Big Niall wrote:I think his signings have been terrible, he has a few good ones (Alonso,Torres,Reina) but the rest? £13m for Babel who isn't a regular, £10 for Kuyt, Keane in and out at a loss of £10m in a few months, Lucas?, how many god damn full backs did he sign before he realised that Finnan (who had already been there) was the best, then once Finnan got old how many other full backs?, Vorinin is one of the worst players I have ever seen up front for LFC, he drove Alonso out, SG was obviously already there and he drives the team.

He is a poor judge of player,has wasted a fortune and leaves us no better (and much poorer).

We might have to put up with him though due to the insane decision to give him a long(ish)contract so recently - can we afford to get rid of him?

I'd love it if Madrid came in for him and we could offload him for free.

Benny The Noon wrote:

Big Niall wrote:I think his signings have been terrible, he has a few good ones (Alonso,Torres,Reina) but the rest? £13m for Babel who isn't a regular, £10 for Kuyt, Keane in and out at a loss of £10m in a few months, Lucas?, how many god damn full backs did he sign before he realised that Finnan (who had already been there) was the best, then once Finnan got old how many other full backs?, Vorinin is one of the worst players I have ever seen up front for LFC, he drove Alonso out, SG was obviously already there and he drives the team.

He is a poor judge of player,has wasted a fortune and leaves us no better (and much poorer).

We might have to put up with him though due to the insane decision to give him a long(ish)contract so recently - can we afford to get rid of him?

I'd love it if Madrid came in for him and we could offload him for free.

The rubbish posted on here gets worse by the day .

As both McAteer and Aldo have both said - the critics on the forums and phone ins should shut and get behind the manager and support him .

You say most of his signings been rubbish yet name 5 one of which is far from a rubbish signing.

What the others then

Crouch
Momo
Garcia
Agger
Skittles
Johnson
Masher
Yossi etc etc

Kuyt a rubbish signing ?!?!? just look at what the guy has produced for us .