Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:51 pm

The main difference last night was he looked up for it. Yes he had a shocking free kick and another wayward shot but at least he was looking to get involved at every opportunity. He did more in 20 minutes than Voronin did in 70.

I'm not excusing Babel at all as I personally think he'll be gone in January and if not January then it will be the summer, he's also got a long way to to go before I change my opinion of him. However all we ask as fans is that he shows the same attitude and application as he did last night, rather than the half arsed attitude he displayed against Arsenal the other week.

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:07 pm

stmichael wrote:The main difference last night was he looked up for it. Yes he had a shocking free kick and another wayward shot but at least he was looking to get involved at every opportunity. He did more in 20 minutes than Voronin did in 70.

I'm not excusing Babel at all as I personally think he'll be gone in January and if not January then it will be the summer, he's also got a long way to to go before I change my opinion of him. However all we ask as fans is that he shows the same attitude and application as he did last night, rather than the half arsed attitude he displayed against Arsenal the other week.

Voronin should never ever get a game again, why is it we can see it but Rafa can't, that is what I don't understand. I much rather have seen babel or Eggnog starting with Nando than Voronin.

by **Johnny Boy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:17 pm

I think Babel has suffered in a way as Benny did, he was in and out of the team, played in different positions, often left on the bench.

The difference is Benny has knuckled down and shown what he can do and for me should be one of the first names on the team sheet now - this is Babel's third season and we are still waiting for him to show what he can do consistently.
£11.5m is looking like a lot of money right now.

Maybe Rafa hasn't given him many chances and sometimes hasn't managed him very well - but he has been here long enough now and we still don't know if he is good enough, I suspect he needs to move on but agree that he should be infront of Voronin every time.

by **europian-kings** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:21 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Im sure he looked close to tears when the players were congratulating him.

i thought the exact same thing!

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:23 pm

Johnny Boy wrote:I think Babel has suffered in a way as Benny did, he was in and out of the team, played in different positions, often left on the bench.

The difference is Benny has knuckled down and shown what he can do and for me should be one of the first names on the team sheet now - this is Babel's third season and we are still waiting for him to show what he can do consistently.
£11.5m is looking like a lot of money right now.

Maybe Rafa hasn't given him many chances and sometimes hasn't managed him very well - but he has been here long enough now and we still don't know if he is good enough, I suspect he needs to move on but agree that he should be infront of Voronin every time.

Sorry but Babel just isn't good enough, if you gave any of us 100 shots at goal I'm sure one or two would fly in, his misses are bloody embarassing though.

As had been said before there is far too much deadweight in the squad and for some bizare reason Rafa loves playing them.

by **JamCar05** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:34 pm

heimdall wrote:As had been said before there is far too much deadweight in the squad and for some bizare reason Rafa loves playing them.

I'm not exactly sure Rafa "loves" playing them. The fact is if all our players were fit (unrealistic assumption atm I know) then Voronin, Kyrgiakos and Babel wouldn't be near the starting lineup as was the case earlier in the season (and for Babel even now).

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:42 pm

JamCar05 wrote:
heimdall wrote:As had been said before there is far too much deadweight in the squad and for some bizare reason Rafa loves playing them.

I'm not exactly sure Rafa "loves" playing them. The fact is if all our players were fit (unrealistic assumption atm I know) then Voronin, Kyrgiakos and Babel wouldn't be near the starting lineup as was the case earlier in the season (and for Babel even now).

I'm not so sure, they still get more playing time than I'm comfortable with, especially Voronin.

by **Owzat** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:05 pm

Johnny Boy wrote:I think Babel has suffered in a way as Benny did, he was in and out of the team, played in different positions, often left on the bench.

The difference is Benny has knuckled down and shown what he can do and for me should be one of the first names on the team sheet now - this is Babel's third season and we are still waiting for him to show what he can do consistently.
£11.5m is looking like a lot of money right now.

Maybe Rafa hasn't given him many chances and sometimes hasn't managed him very well - but he has been here long enough now and we still don't know if he is good enough, I suspect he needs to move on but agree that he should be infront of Voronin every time.

You mention that it is Babel's third season. There is a thread on a non-club-specific football forum that questions whether Babel or Nani is "the bigger donkey". In that I pointed out that Nani is in his third season, Babel is in his third season and that Ronaldo didn't become a prolific scorer or massive influence until his FOURTH season. I don't expect Babel or Nani to become as good as Ronaldo is (when he doesn't cheat, dive etc), but both Babel and Nani are

Babel 22
Nani 22
Ronaldo 24 (was 21, turned 22 during his first top season for the mancs)

But that doesn't excuse his attitude and general poor contribution. If there was little chance of us losing a string of games then I might be tempted to give him a run of games up front, the problem is you want players in the side you know will put in 100% effort, won't make lots of mistakes or give the ball away easily and will make some kind of contribution to the team effort. Would you say with any certainty that Babel would? I think he's on a loser unless he does knuckle down, can't see Rafa pandering to a primadonna like him.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:37 pm

His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

by **Fauxy** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:58 pm

tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:10 pm

Kuyt got on with 'playing out of position' just fine. In fact isn't he Holland's right winger now? He seems happy enough, didn't p!ss and moan. Babel instead walks around with a c0ck up his @rse

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:31 pm

Fauxy wrote:
tonyeh wrote:His attitude is down to Benitez. It's that simple.

Babel (love or hate him) is a forward player. HE"S NOT A WINGER.

I can see that, most others can see it...

...why can't Benitez?

Babel showed on Wednesday that he can get decent goals. Granted, he then missed another and hit a wayward free...but at least he way trying. I have to give him that and I'm in no way a fan of his, by any measure.

The fact is that Benitez has played Babel OUT OF POSITION on a continual basis and has ruined the player, to the point where he mostly couldn't give a shit these days.

What Babel needed was a run of games as a striker/forward...not being fucked out onto the wing for 20 minutes every so often.

Lack of numbers has forced Benitez to play Benayoon on a more regular basis and Yossi has shown the folly of Benitez's former approach to him. Maybe the lack of options will force Benitez to play Babel in a forward role more often now.

if that's the case, it's time for Ryan Babel to step up and take the opportunty to show what he can do in the position he wants to play in.

Actually his position at Ajax was on the left wing so his position hasnt changed since he got here.

Also, he has been played up front a few times and each time he has been rubbish.

A forward needs to be a good finisher. Babel is not a good finisher.. he is way too clumsy to bag those easy goals. Think of when we played Arsenal in the Carling cup, he missed a sitter then when the ball rolled straight passed him. Think of that game against Hull when he could have easily headed in a cross. Think of just the other day against Lyon when he managed to put a free kick just outside the box out for a throw in and then later not even hitting the target from a few yards out.

He is just to clumsy and to un-intelligent to be relied upon to score on a consistent basis which is why he is played as a winger.

His position in Ajax was as a LF. Not on the wing.

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:32 pm

i'd start him against birmingham, mainly because that would mean voronin not being in the team and benayoun in his best position for once instead of out wide.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:36 pm

Greavesie wrote:Kuyt got on with 'playing out of position' just fine. In fact isn't he Holland's right winger now? He seems happy enough, didn't p!ss and moan. Babel instead walks around with a c0ck up his @rse

Only because he was a truly appaling striker.

In addition, Kuyt was given a run of games, even when he had some incredibly awful performances...simply because there was no other choice. He was also on for full games, not 20 minutes every so often.

Kuyt is simply an example of Benitez beating the square peg into the round hole...it just worked in that case, but only to a degree. Kuyt still possesses all the shortcomings he has always had.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:37 pm

stmichael wrote:i'd start him against birmingham, mainly because that would mean voronin not being in the team and benayoun in his best position for once instead of out wide.

I'd play him and wash in a 4-4-2.

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