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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby JoeTerp » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:40 pm

bigmick wrote:He has spent more money since he arrived than Manchester United

Would anyone say that Man United's squad and our squad were on equal levels at the time Rafa took over? I think not, so its not exactly a fair comparison.  You can also take a completely different approach to buying when you have job security compared to if you don't. If you do, you can fill one or two holes each window with big time quality players, and not worry about the other holes so much. You are also much less likely to have multiple holes in the squad at one time if you have been in charge for a while and been successful, and have job security like Fergie. But when you are under pressure all the time you have to paper over all the cracks as best you can and each window paper over every single crack with one more layer of paper
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:21 pm

aCe' wrote:I think the biggest problem i've had, and i've mentioned this a few times now is that we'v continually changed things around when perhaps they didnt need changing... Mascherano for Sissoko at a 10+mill loss ? Johnson for Arbeloa for a 15+mill loss ? Babel for Kewell at a 11+mill loss ? Keane for Crouch at a 10mill loss ? etc etc..

In fairness Masch was signed on loan while we still had Sissoko and before we signed Lucas. We only completed the deal after we'd sold Sissoko to Juve and during his first half season and a bit he was outstanding. I don't think you can really criticise that signing at all. Neither Alonso or Sissoko were at their best and he was only coming on loan initially. After Sissoko left, we'd have been naive not to have completed the deal for Masch. It's only perhaps now that we've seen his form dip that it could be seen as 'needless', but back then the overhwhelming majority of fans were very eager for us to complete the deal.

We had to replace the others for different reasons; Arbeloa because his contract had only a year to run; Kewell because he was crocked 80% of the time; Crouch because he wanted to leave.
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Postby JoeTerp » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:54 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
aCe' wrote:I think the biggest problem i've had, and i've mentioned this a few times now is that we'v continually changed things around when perhaps they didnt need changing... Mascherano for Sissoko at a 10+mill loss ? Johnson for Arbeloa for a 15+mill loss ? Babel for Kewell at a 11+mill loss ? Keane for Crouch at a 10mill loss ? etc etc..

In fairness Masch was signed on loan while we still had Sissoko and before we signed Lucas. We only completed the deal after we'd sold Sissoko to Juve and during his first half season and a bit he was outstanding. I don't think you can really criticise that signing at all. Neither Alonso or Sissoko were at their best and he was only coming on loan initially. After Sissoko left, we'd have been naive not to have completed the deal for Masch. It's only perhaps now that we've seen his form dip that it could be seen as 'needless', but back then the overhwhelming majority of fans were very eager for us to complete the deal.

We had to replace the others for different reasons; Arbeloa because his contract had only a year to run; Kewell because he was crocked 80% of the time; Crouch because he wanted to leave.

Sorry Ace, but a lot of that is unfair revisionism that doesn't accuratlely reflect the choices that we were actually making at the time.
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Postby f9Torres » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:04 pm

Ciggy: :bowdown
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Postby redbeergoggles » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:08 pm

Aguero ,Alves,Evra,Malouda,Villa,Milito,Upson,Milner,Walcott,Vidic,Berbatov,Silva,Barry, just a small selection of the players Rafa was not allocated funds to buy ,are people really suggesting he willingly selected the current dross we now have at are disposal, over the names mentioned above ,World Class manager forced to swim in the veritable waters of mediocrity .... The words on the letter read come to Liverpool inherit the love of the fans ,at Liverpool we do things big we expect to win things ,we certainly expect to be the best team in the land and we will take no quarter in our quest to ensure Liverpools name is synonymous with success ....... and the small print read but if you advocate a name that we feel is unknown then we will not make funds available as Mr Parry's knowledge of football is well versed and legendary in scouting  circles so by the wayside fell Aguero,Alves,Villa to much of a risk to spend the princely sum of 10 million ....

Think big ,$pend big ....... Dont just talk a good fight ,Liverpools hierarchy have flattered to deceive for too long ,talk is cheap
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:10 pm

Pato would seem to be another going by what Tompkins says (I know)....
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Postby fivecups » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:17 pm

From the Times (Daniel Finkelstein), Fink tank



Life’s a beach ball, and then you die. After the freak goal by Darren Bent brought defeat by Sunderland, one or two pundits wondered if Liverpool fans were too accepting of the injustice. Perhaps, they speculated, the Kop has finally tired of Rafael Benítez. Perhaps they were looking for a chance to get rid of him. And the beach ball provides a chance.

But if that is what they are thinking, then I believe they are making a mistake.

Dr Henry Stott, Dr Ian Graham, and Dr Mark Latham have been untangling a tale of two seasons. Liverpool did so well last season, staying in the title race until it was nearly over. But now our progress chart suggests that they are already down to little more than a 3 per cent chance of lifting the trophy. Manchester United have won (in 2002/3, Fink Tank’s first season) after having a 4 per cent chance in mid November. But there is, well, a 97 per cent chance that this won’t happen to Liverpool this season.

What is going on? And should it be laid at Benítez’s door?

The simple answer, at least as far as it is possible to answer it this early in the season, is that nothing much is going on. But to see what I mean you have to understand the last campaign.

A team such as Liverpool begin the season with a range of places they can finish in given their quality. Luck and the variable performance of other sides might change the place the side finish in even if their performance doesn’t vary. So we know the probability that they will finish in a certain place, without, naturally, being able to offer any certainty.

For this reason, a team has a chance of winning the Barclays Premier League even if they aren’t the best side. The table, in other words, does lie. The best side might be defined as the one that would be the favourite on a neutral ground against any opposition from the Premier League. And you can determine this, as we do, by a model employing a weighted measure of goals and shots on goal.

The longer the season lasts, the more chance there is that the best team will win the title. But in a 38-game season, reasonably short from a statistical standpoint, even the third and fourth ranked sides have an appreciable chance of winning the title, while still remaining third or fourth best.

And this, pretty much, is what happened to Liverpool. They started last season ranked in third equal place with Arsenal and with only a 10 per cent chance of winning the title. In the middle of the season their chance peaked at 20 per cent, before dropping off again. In other words, we were always pretty confident that Liverpool wouldn’t win the Premier League.

Nevertheless, by coming second, Liverpool exceeded our expectations for a team of their quality. And it is not surprising at all that they have dropped back off again this season. Their start to this season is more what we would expect of them.

So what is behind it? Three things seem worth mentioning. First, they have stayed steady in quality but have changed with their defence getting weaker and their attack getting stronger. They are letting in a large proportion of the shots on goal. They need to put this right.

Second, Xabi Alonso was, next only to Steven Gerrard, their best player. It was a disaster to lose him to Real Madrid.

But most importantly — the money. Our figures show that Benítez outperforms the wage bill. Blame the Americans. Not Rafa.
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