Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

N'Gog is young and scores goals, what more do you want?

The "horrible", "terrible" greek was bought because we needed a defender and your beloved G&H wouldn't pay for Upson, Hangeland, Turner or Shawcross.

Crouch rejected a contract because he didn't want to be behind Torres in the pecking order. The ONLY way he would have stayed is if he'd been first choice.

As has been hinted at by players and Tony Barrett, Keane was reluctant to change his style of play for the benefit of the team. As much as I wanted him to succeed, Keane may have caused even more unrest in the dressing room hadhe stayed.

N'Gog scores tap ins, he has terrible movement, terrible vision and will never ever be a top striker, we have only one viable striker and that is a disgrace for a club with title ambitions.

As for calling them "my beloved G&H", I would kindly ask you to retract that as it's a terrible thing to say. I dislike them as much as anyone else. Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

Unbelievable - truely


Slagging Ngog of because he only scores tap in ?

How blind are you ? Was the turn and goal against Leeds a tap in ? Was the run and finish against Man Utd a tap in ?

Change the record lad - Ngog is one player who has shown this season he has a decent potential to be a decent striker . A strikers main job is to score goals - who cares where they are scored from as long as its a goal .

As for Crouch - Im pretty sure Rafa wanted to keep crouch as back up to Torres BUT Crouch himself refused to sign the contract as he wanted first team football to protect his england place .

[Emerald Red]

N'Gog is young and scores goals, what more do you want?

The "horrible", "terrible" greek was bought because we needed a defender and your beloved G&H wouldn't pay for Upson, Hangeland, Turner or Shawcross.

Crouch rejected a contract because he didn't want to be behind Torres in the pecking order. The ONLY way he would have stayed is if he'd been first choice.

As has been hinted at by players and Tony Barrett, Keane was reluctant to change his style of play for the benefit of the team. As much as I wanted him to succeed, Keane may have caused even more unrest in the dressing room hadhe stayed.

N'Gog scores tap ins, he has terrible movement, terrible vision and will never ever be a top striker, we have only one viable striker and that is a disgrace for a club with title ambitions.

As for calling them "my beloved G&H", I would kindly ask you to retract that as it's a terrible thing to say. I dislike them as much as anyone else. Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

Unbelievable - truely


Slagging Ngog of because he only scores tap in ?

How blind are you ? Was the turn and goal against Leeds a tap in ? Was the run and finish against Man Utd a tap in ?

Change the record lad - Ngog is one player who has shown this season he has a decent potential to be a decent striker . A strikers main job is to score goals - who cares where they are scored from as long as its a goal .

As for Crouch - Im pretty sure Rafa wanted to keep crouch as back up to Torres BUT Crouch himself refused to sign the contract as he wanted first team football to protect his england place .

Aye, I seem to recall Rush scoring a load of tap-in's. He was sh*t, that boy!

[Benny The Noon]

N'Gog is young and scores goals, what more do you want?

The "horrible", "terrible" greek was bought because we needed a defender and your beloved G&H wouldn't pay for Upson, Hangeland, Turner or Shawcross.

Crouch rejected a contract because he didn't want to be behind Torres in the pecking order. The ONLY way he would have stayed is if he'd been first choice.

As has been hinted at by players and Tony Barrett, Keane was reluctant to change his style of play for the benefit of the team. As much as I wanted him to succeed, Keane may have caused even more unrest in the dressing room hadhe stayed.

N'Gog scores tap ins, he has terrible movement, terrible vision and will never ever be a top striker, we have only one viable striker and that is a disgrace for a club with title ambitions.

As for calling them "my beloved G&H", I would kindly ask you to retract that as it's a terrible thing to say. I dislike them as much as anyone else. Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

Unbelievable - truely


Slagging Ngog of because he only scores tap in ?

How blind are you ? Was the turn and goal against Leeds a tap in ? Was the run and finish against Man Utd a tap in ?

Change the record lad - Ngog is one player who has shown this season he has a decent potential to be a decent striker . A strikers main job is to score goals - who cares where they are scored from as long as its a goal .

As for Crouch - Im pretty sure Rafa wanted to keep crouch as back up to Torres BUT Crouch himself refused to sign the contract as he wanted first team football to protect his england place .

Aye, I seem to recall Rush scoring a load of tap-in's. He was sh*t, that boy!

F.ucking Toilet mate - couldnt hit a barn door from 25 yards but lethal from 5 yards - why we kept him so long i will never know .

[Greavesie]

The only two goals I can recall were hardly tap ins, against PSV, great finish and against Man U, very calmly finished, enither of them were tap ins. Before someone corrects me I'm not disputing that he hasnt scored any tap ins.

Anyway the point I was going to make, Ciggy, that post is absolutely top drawer 

thank you for posting it 

[Benny The Noon]

He scored against Blackburn i think which was a close range header and im sure there was another one recently besides the leeds and manc game

[JoeTerp]

I think Gerrard set him up in a game off a corner and he tapped it in last season.  I know its only pre-season but he had a nice strike from the edge of the box against Gers in one of his first appearances for the club.

[parchpea]

Its often argued that Benitez has not had the funds of our competitors and for the sake of argument lets say thats the case. If we accept that fact then would it be fair to say he has an eye for a player and has used the resources at his disposal well? Looking at that list and the way we are shaping up now I would say no. I personlly think we should be in a  better position right now and if Liverpool need a manager to work under budget restraint then Benitez is clearly not the right man for the job. What we will need is a guy with an eye for a player, who can train, mould and turn lads into footballers good enough to do a job at the club.Benitez has proved he cannot do that, and unless he can throw £20m+ at a player he buys footballers that usually let us down and fail to make the grade at the football club.With Rafa at the helm all we are doing is waiting for big money coming in so he can spend it but ofcourse we all know you could recruit a number of guys that could work with massive money. If huge money is not coming in, and thats looking likely, then we need another manager who can be clever with the cash we have to invest in the team and get us going again.

[Benny The Noon]

So which of the players we bought for under 20 million have failed ?

crouch ?
Xabi?
Agger ?
Momo ?
Aurelio ?
Kuyt ?
Yossi ?
Skrtel ?
Pepe ?
Reira ?


All success in my eyes with Xabi the most expensive at 10 mil ish

Failures

Dossena
Babel
Keane

Maybe add Morientis and Bellamy

[bigmick]

It seems pointless to me talking about individual signings when judging where we are and talking about the managers success or otherwise in the transfer market. I think he's done fairly well in his transfer dealings FWIW, but the question is really has he done enough given the resources which have been made available to him?

He has spent more money since he arrived than Manchester United, more money than Arsenal and only marginally less than Chelsea. The question is not about whether Dossena was/is value, nor whether we should or shouldn't have sold Morientes, the question is quite simply whether or not the squad is good enough.

It isn't.

[Benny The Noon]

No he isnt good enough . Im guessing a lot of people are pointing to the foundations - Arsenal had a very very strong foundation , Man Utds was strong as well - Chelseas was strong as well - ours was the weakest of the lot . We had good solid players plus one outstanding one but the other solid players where coming to the ends of there career - hamann etc so the squad we had when Rafa took over needed a major overhaul .

[aCe']

It seems pointless to me talking about individual signings when judging where we are and talking about the managers success or otherwise in the transfer market. I think he's done fairly well in his transfer dealings FWIW, but the question is really has he done enough given the resources which have been made available to him?

He has spent more money since he arrived than Manchester United, more money than Arsenal and only marginally less than Chelsea. The question is not about whether Dossena was/is value, nor whether we should or shouldn't have sold Morientes, the question is quite simply whether or not the squad is good enough.

It isn't.

Well to be honest, i dont think our squad is that bad... i'd say its pretty good to be honest... Could it have been better ? yes, definitely for me... I think given what we had available we should have done better... And im not just talking about the money we spent in saying "what we had available"... Some of the players we had before Rafa arrived and during Rafa's reign at different time periods were good enough and shouldnt have been shipped off or allowed to move unless BETTER targets had already been lined up...
Overall , i'd say we have a good squad now but not one that is worth what was paid for it...

I think the biggest problem i've had, and i've mentioned this a few times now is that we'v continually changed things around when perhaps they didnt need changing... Mascherano for Sissoko at a 10+mill loss ? Johnson for Arbeloa for a 15+mill loss ? Babel for Kewell at a 11+mill loss ? Keane for Crouch at a 10mill loss ? etc etc..

Anyways... the squad today... not too bad in my books but perhaps should have been better in certain positions... a few  players i dont like, the likes of Lucas, Kuyt, and to a lesser extent Skrtel and Babel.. but overall, i think we've got a pretty decent squad compared to any other bar our desperate need for a quality backup striker and a dominant CB... Get that sorted and i would think we'd have a much better chance of dealing with future injury problems and selection worries...

The problem i have with most of the posts in this thread is that many people seem to be working under the assumption that Rafa had started from scratch, and that he had to use the money to not only buy 11 players to start, but a bench too... He didnt, he chose to! He wasted alot of money in doing so, and the end product (assuming this season's squad is that) is quite lacking GIVEN the money spent, and the quality and value in the side he inherited...

[bigmick]

No he isnt good enough . Im guessing a lot of people are pointing to the foundations - Arsenal had a very very strong foundation , Man Utds was strong as well - Chelseas was strong as well - ours was the weakest of the lot . We had good solid players plus one outstanding one but the other solid players where coming to the ends of there career - hamann etc so the squad we had when Rafa took over needed a major overhaul .

People will no doubt talk about Arsenal having a "strong foundation" mate, but they'll be wrong. The season before Rafa came, arsenal won the league without losing a match. Since then, Wenger has changed the whole team, practically the whole squad (I think Fabregas was there as a youngster at the time).

People will mention Man Utd, but as I pointed out earlier they were fifteen points behind the leaders in third place the season before rafa arrived. In Rafa's first season, they were eighteen points behind the winners in third place. In Rafa's second season, we finished one point behind them. That was three and a bit seasons ago, we were one point behind them then and haven't got as close since.

Chelsea were second, eleven points off the top when Rafa arrived. Mourinho came in and bought big, but it's worth considering that since then we've closed up that gap appreciably on the spending front. We finished ahead of them last season, but are looking like we're going to be a mile behind this time around despite them not really spending any money.

We finished ahead of Arsenal last time, but despite them making 25 million quid profit by selling their best striker and best defender, we don't look like we'll finish ahead of them this time. We finished within four points of the Mancs, but despite them selling Christiano Ronaldo and Carlos Tevez (replacing them with Antonio Valencia and Michael Owen) we don't look like we're going to do it this time. 




As I always say, there are many reasons for that. Chief amongst them though isn't money, that's nonsense to say that.

[Benny The Noon]

Will agree with most of your post bar the examples of player changes you mentioned

Masher for sissoko - Masher is a lot better than momo by a fair way , Momo was good for us , Masher was a step up .

Johnson for Arbeloa - Arbeloa wanted to leave - was running his contract down and Johnson is a far more talented right back .

Babel for Kewell - While i think Kewell is a better player - he was never fit enough to play for us - constantly injured and at the time it seemd a great signing - hindsight and all that

Keane for Crouch - will agree with that 100% but we all know Crouch wanted to go and didnt want to be second choice to Torres so had to be replaced - prob replaced by the wrong striker .

As for starting from scratch - i think most fans will recognise and understand that the squad from 04/05 was woeful in the league - 30 odd points before Rafa arrived and 30 odd points Rafas first season so players were not good enough or were coming to the end of their time and needed replacing in stages . It had to be done and the proof is the results in the league - us getting closer and closer overhaulling Arsenal and finally Chelsea last season with just the Mancs to go . Yes its not good at the moment but the squad Rafa had when he arrived needed replacing wholesale bar the odd couple of players .

[Benny The Noon]

No he isnt good enough . Im guessing a lot of people are pointing to the foundations - Arsenal had a very very strong foundation , Man Utds was strong as well - Chelseas was strong as well - ours was the weakest of the lot . We had good solid players plus one outstanding one but the other solid players where coming to the ends of there career - hamann etc so the squad we had when Rafa took over needed a major overhaul .

People will no doubt talk about Arsenal having a "strong foundation" mate, but they'll be wrong. The season before Rafa came, arsenal won the league without losing a match. Since then, Wenger has changed the whole team, practically the whole squad (I think Fabregas was there as a youngster at the time).

People will mention Man Utd, but as I pointed out earlier they were fifteen points behind the leaders in third place the season before rafa arrived. In Rafa's first season, they were eighteen points behind the winners in third place. In Rafa's second season, we finished one point behind them. That was three and a bit seasons ago, we were one point behind them then and haven't got as close since.

Chelsea were second, eleven points off the top when Rafa arrived. Mourinho came in and bought big, but it's worth considering that since then we've closed up that gap appreciably on the spending front. We finished ahead of them last season, but are looking like we're going to be a mile behind this time around despite them not really spending any money.

We finished ahead of Arsenal last time, but despite them making 25 million quid profit by selling their best striker and best defender, we don't look like we'll finish ahead of them this time. We finished within four points of the Mancs, but despite them selling Christiano Ronaldo and Carlos Tevez (replacing them with Antonio Valencia and Michael Owen) we don't look like we're going to do it this time. 




As I always say, there are many reasons for that. Chief amongst them though isn't money, that's nonsense to say that.

I didnt mention money Michael - i mentioned strength of squads .

Before Rafa arrived Arsenal won the league - cant get a bigger foundation than that - yes they have had to overhaul since then and what exactly have they won - nothing .He has had the money to spend but decided not to and to rely on his kids .

Chelsea - The year before Rafa arrived they spent 153 mil with Raneri building a squad with some massive players - reaching the CL semi finals and second in the league - another strong foundation and Maureen built on top of that with more big signings and went onto win the league twice but foundation was their when he arrived .

Mancs - Yes they were third the season before but in their squad they had proven league winners , vastly expeirenced players in the prem - scholes ,giggs, van horse , neville, ferdinand , plus had just bought rooney for 30 mil and had ronaldo improving . Another strong foundation with which to build on with the additions on more big money signing s. The second season they were still building and yet still finished ahead of us then they suddenly clicked and ronaldo turned into a massive player for them and they won the league 3 years on the trot .

Foundations were their to see on all three of the sides .

Ours at the time were not too bad - Sami ,Gerrard and Owen were our main players plus the likes of carra and hamman to supplement them but the rest around them just werent of the same standard and needed replacing .

And yes i am mentioning money this time .

While we have had a decent amount of money to spend - a lot of it has gone on replacing players not good enough and to try and build a prem winning squad from the ground upwards . Chelsea had the ability to spend it all in one go - the mancs didnt need to due to the spine they had and arsenal have chosen not too .

[kazza]

As cggy's article states we have the sixth highest payroll in the prem but we finish higher than sixth every year, so therefore we over-achieve. Utd and Chelsea can afford to pay their bench 70k per week but we cannot and that is why we get players like Degen and Voronin, then people say why does Raffa get sh1t players (because they were free).

I think he is the best manager in the world and we are lucky to have him, He would get paid more if he was Real's manager yet he stays despite dealing with the owners.