Liverpool FC Forum

[Dazzer]

What happens when one or more of those 15 mil players get injured ? who do you replace them with ? You cant just go buy 15 15 mil players - half of what Rafa has bought is youth for the future and also some second choice buys plus the top quality players - its not like Rafa has been given 200 mil in one go and told to go buy who he wants .

Ok since you wanna talk about football I will responed.

Well ok 15 man squad plus carra and gerrard is what 17 man squad ? I am sure you wouldn't need 15 x 15 mil players you could have a few bargins in there in say 3 of those 15 mil players buy 6 players then you looking at a strong 11 plus a good 10 man backup.I  am just saying Rafa has bought season on season not a 5 year plan and that is what he should have been aiming for because he said him self Judge me in 5 years.

[Ciggy]

Lets just look at the Squad that Rafa has around him, His squad his coaches, his team, his tactics and lets forget about winning the premiership for a moment (that's perhaps too big an aspiration with no commitment from the owners)  My questions is this IS IT GOOD ENOUGH?  Not is it brilliant, Or can we win the Champions league or the Premierhip or the F.A. cup no non of those just IS IT GOOD ENOUGH?

For me personally its not.

The squad isnt good enough no, but I dont see anyone saying it is either, we really needed to buy a world class striker in the summer, that should have been on the top of the agenda.
But what can you do if you dont have the money for one?

This is an excellent team when fit Reina, Agger, Carra, Johnson, Aurelio, Insua, Yossi, Skrtel, Reira, Gerrard, Torres, Aqualini, Kuyt, Mascherano.

But after that we have no one, and the players that are coming in when our first teamers are not available just arnt either interested or up to the job.

[bunglemark2]

And was doomed to be a failure at Liverpool, I went mad when we signed him, he is an ok player just not suited to us, maybe 5 years ago but not now, take your irish glasses off for a minute.

I also didnt agree with the signing of Pennant, Bellamy and Barry aswell, 3 players that should not have come here either, ok only two did, they where big mistakes.

Although in saying that if barry would have signed for us than City we wouldnt have played so bad this season, hes no Alonso but an improvement on Lucas, plus Bellamy and Keane are better options to have than Ngog and Voronin.

And on the Vidic signing the mancs outbid us you know that so why bring it up?

Mate, I don't have Irish glasses on when I talk about Keane - believe me, I have seen him time and time again in a green jersey and don't rate him highly...
BUT, when he's all that the manager has, when he is proven to be capable of scoring goals, and the manager INSISTS on parking him on the bench or hauling his sorry ar$e off after 60-70 minutes when nobody else on the pitch is more likely to score a goal, then that is childish petulance on Benitez's part.

I'll agree with the Barry signing, and the improvement he undoubtedly would be over Lucas in particular. What I won't agree with is the unsettling effect the pursuit of Barry had on Alonso two seasons ago. The insistence by Benitez that Barry had more to offer than Barry. Absolutely ridiculous call for a supposed tactical genius. The writing was on the wall from the time that Benitez sought the affections of Barry, that Alonso would bite his lip and wait for the right time to go. I'm not saying we could or should have stopped Alonso from leaving, and kudos to the club for the profit we made on him, but the foundations for his departure were laid by Rafa, end of.

The point about the Vidic signing is that we were beaten to his signature again by the Mancs. If we were outbid, it was because funds were wasted elsewhere on journey men, simply wasted.

[Dazzer]

Lets just look at the Squad that Rafa has around him, His squad his coaches, his team, his tactics and lets forget about winning the premiership for a moment (that's perhaps too big an aspiration with no commitment from the owners)  My questions is this IS IT GOOD ENOUGH?  Not is it brilliant, Or can we win the Champions league or the Premierhip or the F.A. cup no non of those just IS IT GOOD ENOUGH?

For me personally its not.

The squad isnt good enough no, but I dont see anyone saying it is either, we really needed to buy a world class striker in the summer, that should have been on the top of the agenda.
But what can you do if you dont have the money for one?

This is an excellent team when fit Reina, Agger, Carra, Johnson, Aurelio, Insua, Yossi, Skrtel, Reira, Gerrard, Torres, Aqualini, Kuyt, Mascherano.

But after that we have no one, and the players that are coming in when our first teamers are not available just arnt either interested or up to the job.

I know Rafa has bought alot of youth players but do you think any one them are really gonna make the step up because only lad I seen who could do a job is that kelly lad he looks a nice little RB.Begs the question why we need to spend 17 mil on Johnson with a little gem like that in the youth team ? Surely we could have made do and got that striker you talking about ? Don't get me wrong I think he is great player but we are so lacking up front if Torres is out its scary.

[Benny The Noon]

And he has tried hence why he has had to sell a fair number of players to enable him to get big players in - When he has been able to spend big on the whole he has been successful- Torres and Masher being are main two - let downs are keane and babel(who is quite cheap considering current prices) . He has also got some good players on very good prices - Riena,Agger,Skrtel, Yossi plus aurelio on a free . 

Players have flopped - Namely keane and babel who cost a fair bit but every manager has their failures . But we have had to get people like voronin and degen on frees due to being unable to spend millions on back up players .

Players like Bellamy sissoko and crouch where either sold to fund players or because they wanted first team footy.

While Rafa has spent a bit of money on the majority of it the signings have been successful .

I expect roughly 40 mil of the money has gone to buy a whole new batch of youth players to replace the crop we had when he arrived .

Look at our first team squad if fully fit

Pepe - 6 mil - Success

Johnson - 17 mil ish - Looking to be a success
Agger - 5 mil - success
Carra - Already at club
Aurelio - Success

Masher - 19 mil - success
Aqualini - 19 mil ish - too early to judge but signs are good

Kuyt - 9 mil - success
Gerrard - already at club
Yossi - 5 mil - success

Torres - 21 mil - success

Subs

Caverllie - 2 mil - cant really judge but hasnt let us down when he has been in team
Skrtel - 6 mil ish - success
Insua - 2 mil - success
Lucas - 5 mil - so so success
Reira - 5 mil ish - success
Ngog - 1 mil - looking to be a good buy
Voronin - free - flop
Babel - 10 mil - flop
Dossena - 7 mil - flop
Zorba - 1.5 mil - cant really judge
Degen - free - not played enough to be judged

Plus the youngsters we have coming through that may well be a success

Kelly
Darby
Spearing
Ayala
San Jose
Pacheco
Ecclestone
Nemeth

plus even younger ones

Del Valle
Amoo
Ince
plus many more .

Look at the first team and the one prob we have at the moment is injuries are crippling us

Possibly out for Lyon is

Johnson
Agger
Aurelio
Aqualini
Reira
Gerrard
Torres

that would cripple anyone and how Man Utd and Chelsea and Now Man City step ahead of us is able to have 15 mil plus player sat on the bench as back up - we have never been able to get those sort of players .

[Benny The Noon]

And was doomed to be a failure at Liverpool, I went mad when we signed him, he is an ok player just not suited to us, maybe 5 years ago but not now, take your irish glasses off for a minute.

I also didnt agree with the signing of Pennant, Bellamy and Barry aswell, 3 players that should not have come here either, ok only two did, they where big mistakes.

Although in saying that if barry would have signed for us than City we wouldnt have played so bad this season, hes no Alonso but an improvement on Lucas, plus Bellamy and Keane are better options to have than Ngog and Voronin.

And on the Vidic signing the mancs outbid us you know that so why bring it up?

Mate, I don't have Irish glasses on when I talk about Keane - believe me, I have seen him time and time again in a green jersey and don't rate him highly...
BUT, when he's all that the manager has, when he is proven to be capable of scoring goals, and the manager INSISTS on parking him on the bench or hauling his sorry ar$e off after 60-70 minutes when nobody else on the pitch is more likely to score a goal, then that is childish petulance on Benitez's part.

I'll agree with the Barry signing, and the improvement he undoubtedly would be over Lucas in particular. What I won't agree with is the unsettling effect the pursuit of Barry had on Alonso two seasons ago. The insistence by Benitez that Barry had more to offer than Barry. Absolutely ridiculous call for a supposed tactical genius. The writing was on the wall from the time that Benitez sought the affections of Barry, that Alonso would bite his lip and wait for the right time to go. I'm not saying we could or should have stopped Alonso from leaving, and kudos to the club for the profit we made on him, but the foundations for his departure were laid by Rafa, end of.

The point about the Vidic signing is that we were beaten to his signature again by the Mancs. If we were outbid, it was because funds were wasted elsewhere on journey men, simply wasted.

1. Xabi prior to last summer had two poor below par seasons with were effected by injury . We couldnt afford to buy Barry and Keep Xavi - we had to seel Xabi to fund the purchase of Barry.

2. We bid the release clause for Vidic at the time but Man Utd bid more and we couldnt up our bid due to lack of funds (we had spent the money on Xabi and Garcia in the summer and Morientis during the winter ) but we still could of had vidic but he decided on Man Utd and we went and got Agger instead.

[big al]

I think you are all missing the point about who Rafa buys that all academic.  Rafa needs to manage the players he has.  In many of his players he has excelled in making them better for example, Torres has talk about Rafa schooling him on were to stand in order to be more effective.  No one can analyse a game better then Rafa.  Having the best players in the world is irrelevant unless you can manage them.  Rafa seems to struggle with emotion, passion and man management.  I think he's the best coach in world football but as a manager he lacks the human touch.  It seems to me that there are too many players who struggle to play for Rafa.  Every player is different some are mentally very tough and confident as with many German players others struggle such as Babble.  If you can't adapt to Rafa's style of management regardless of how good you are you are doomed as a Liverpool player.  If we had kept Alonso we would never have lost so many games.  Alonso Was the most fouled against player in the premiership he had 6 players red carded against him last season.  Every team knew stop Alonso stop Liverpool but the problem was whilst they were doing that Gerrard was running them ragged.  Rafa's failure to convince Alaonso to stay is my biggest criticism of Rafa and is why he's in trouble.  Alonso has publically admitted that he did'nt know if he was coming or going.  Rafa was right to look to replace Alonso 2 seasons ago but Alonso showed eveyone last season how good he was Rafa just needed to say Xabi I was wrong about you your the best passing player in the world, please stay.  Rafa will never do that.  He never done that with Gerrard so why would he do it with Alonso.  Despite what people here say it was Parry and Moores who kept Gerrard Rafa was prepared to let him go, because Rafa Benitez doesent say sorry to anyone not even the fans.

[Dazzer]

I think you are all missing the point about who Rafa buys that all academic.  Rafa needs to manage the players he has.  In many of his players he has excelled in making them better for example, Torres has talk about Rafa schooling him on were to stand in order to be more effective.  No one can analyse a game better then Rafa.  Having the best players in the world is irrelevant unless you can manage them.  Rafa seems to struggle with emotion, passion and man management.  I think he's the best coach in world football but as a manager he lacks the human touch.  It seems to me that there are too many players who struggle to play for Rafa.  Every player is different some are mentally very tough and confident as with many German players others struggle such as Babble.  If you can't adapt to Rafa's style of management regardless of how good you are you are doomed as a Liverpool player.  If we had kept Alonso we would never have lost so many games.  Alonso Was the most fouled against player in the premiership he had 6 players red carded against him last season.  Every team knew stop Alonso stop Liverpool but the problem was whilst they were doing that Gerrard was running them ragged.  Rafa's failure to convince Alaonso to stay is my biggest criticism of Rafa and is why he's in trouble.  Alonso has publically admitted that he did'nt know if he was coming or going.  Rafa was right to look to replace Alonso 2 seasons ago but Alonso showed eveyone last season how good he was Rafa just needed to say Xabi I was wrong about you your the best passing player in the world, please stay.  Rafa will never do that.  He never done that with Gerrard so why would he do it with Alonso.  Despite what people here say it was Parry and Moores who kept Gerrard Rafa was prepared to let him go, because Rafa Benitez doesent say sorry to anyone not even the fans.

Yeah these are all basicly things I have said over last 2 weeks and been hammered for them. 

[Benny The Noon]

Once again will mention the fact that two season prior to last season Xabi was pretty poor with no form whatsoever . Two whole seasons and i remember many calls asking for him to go and to be replaced .

[Benny The Noon]

And as for gerrard it was Moores and Parry who nearly forced the lad to leave in the first place the second time and Rafa was shocked about it all - Its in his book if you want to read it . Gerrard also mentioned it was Rafas words and ideas that helped him stay the first time when Rafa first took over . Sammy also mentions during interviews that Rafa is very good with the players and protects them from the press and encourages them beyond belief .

[big al]

Dazzer many of the ex players have said this, its not your invenetion or my invention Neill Mellor has talked about Rafa's lack of a Human side openly.  He descibed him as 'the most ruthless person I Know' Being ruthless is fine if you bring success.  Rafa is worshiped by many LFC Fans because of Istanbul,  go back and look at it again and you'll find the passion came from Carragher, Gerrard and Hamann. Benitez had no emotion whatsoever he still lacks emotion and the truth is that anyone who lives their life without emotion will never get the respect and comitment of others.  How many rubbish newcastle players give everything for Bobby Robinson or better still how many average players worked their socks off for Bill Shankly

[Bammo]

Look at some of the terrible players he's bought though. No manager will win the league who thinks these players are good enough:

             Bosnich
Silvabaek Prunier  Blanc  Fortune
Cruyff Kleberson Djemba-Dlemba Blomqvist
          Bellion   Miller

Oh....right...yeah...whoops

[Ciggy]

Its all ifs and buts where Alonso is concerned no doubt about it we missed him when he was out for long periods of time when he was injured, even when he was on a poor run of form.
But if the owners had given rafa the money to buy Barry well Rafa would not have tried to sell Xabi, he was not a replacement for Xabi, I think it was more to do with giving Gerrard, Masch and Xabi a rest.

If Rafa could turn back time on that whole sorry saga I think he would and what ever doubts people have about his feelings and lack of passion shown in public.
I dont doubt for one single minute that he doesnt love this club.
And he certainly doesnt deserve the flack he has recieved since the day he arrived from the media other managers and our very own fans.

[Espionage]

I agree with it as well but I still see fact that rafa over 5 years even tho he has had to sell still has spent 220 off mil on players.But I still can't see where the 15 odd 15 mil players are is he hiding them somewhere ? When you do the math 220 mil gets you 15 ish 15 mil players You can take 1 and half off for Torres.If any thing that well thought out post just highlights more that Rafa has bought season on season instead of building a team over the 4-5 seasons.

Spending money equate to success.

This advice is a recipe for disaster and certain mediocrity.

[Benny The Noon]

Rafa is passionate about Liverpool - go back and look at the video where he walked into a pub full of liverpool fans and was joking and laughing about with them cheering along when someone scored against the mancs . The guy lives and breaths Liverpool football club and oyu can see in his face how upset he is every time we dont get a positive result , he looks gutted and drained . Just becuase he doesnt show it to joe bloggs on the street doesnt mean he has no passion , just because he keeps it under control in the spotlight doesnt mean he has no passion or emotion - he just prefers to keep it to himself - which has been stated by many people close to him . Lets not crucify him on stuff that we know nothing about .