Liverpool FC Forum

[made in UK]

Is there 11 players that could win the league out of those lot? Our first 11 this season is capable of winning the league, so that answers that question. What is baffling is that Rafa let go of some quality players (albeit at a handsom profit) and replaced with complete sh*te like Voronin and Degen. When I heard we signed these two I cringed and wasn't too happy, even if both were a Bosman (or were they?) I can't really blame Rafa for signing players like Babel and Dossena. Both players have obvious abillity, but lacking mentality for this league. It happens. Doessena obviously found it hard to adjust to the pace of the EPL playing in the position he plays, which is understandable if you know Italian football. Don't know what Babel's excuse is. But anyway, let's compare:

Fergie bought Nani and Anderson. Manc supporter practically blew their loads (well, the one's I know) when he signed these over-hyped and relatively unknowns. But they had to be amazing considering they both cost about 40 million, or there abouts for the pair. I'm not going to drag out the stats on that one either, but if you look at say Rafa's equivalent buy which is Lucas to Anderson, then Lucas cost considerably less, captained the Brazilian under-21's, and is now playing for the first team. His form of late has spiked and is starting to show some of the promise of when Rafa first bought him, no more evident than in his bossing of the Manc midfield in the last two games against them, and steady performances here and there in the last couple of games. He's not been a revelation, but he has come in and done a job.
Then you look at Babel to Nani. Babel cost 11 million, was a highly rated prospect at Ajax and under-21 Holland international. Again, not dragging out the stats, but hasn't he scored more goals in all competition than the pudding called Nani? Fergie practically spunked 17 million pound on a circus act clown who does summersaults after a goal.

Here's my point in all of this: certain managers can get away with signing duds, while certain others can't. The whole "Rafa has bought one or two players, and the rest are duds" is a w"nker's argument, one which the press just loves to latch onto at any given oportunity.

Signing the likes of Voronin, Degen, Kromkamp, Keane, Babel etc etc is a justified argument that Rafa has made big errors at times in the market, but there isn't a manager alive that hasn't made f*ck ups when signing players. As far as I'm concerned, the one thing Benitez is truely guilty of is not signing the two or three players of adequate standard for this club to come from the reserves or the bench and make a big difference to our seasons. For this he has exercised poor judgement IMO, like buying Johnson when he should have been looking for a second striker, even though we did need a quality full-back and Johnson has since proven to be a massive improvement to the position. That's the thing: Rafa has built a quality first 11 and spent wisely (with the acception of Keane) in big money transfers to improve the respective first 11 areas, a first 11 that I believe is as good as any in the country. It's the bench where he's been found wanting.

I would just like to say that you're aesthetically pleasing signature is blemished by that brainless quote beneath it.

[Owzat]

Didn't we once have Anelka on loan, only to opt out on signing him?

Biggest fuck up Houllier ever made, instead of signing him up he signed Diao, Diouf for the combined price of 16 million pound. 

I thought that was opting not to sign Ronaldo

He was first spotted by then-Liverpool manager Gérard Houllier at 16, but Liverpool declined to take him on because they decided he was too young and needed some time to develop his skills

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Ronaldo

[Emerald Red]

Is there 11 players that could win the league out of those lot? Our first 11 this season is capable of winning the league, so that answers that question. What is baffling is that Rafa let go of some quality players (albeit at a handsom profit) and replaced with complete sh*te like Voronin and Degen. When I heard we signed these two I cringed and wasn't too happy, even if both were a Bosman (or were they?) I can't really blame Rafa for signing players like Babel and Dossena. Both players have obvious abillity, but lacking mentality for this league. It happens. Doessena obviously found it hard to adjust to the pace of the EPL playing in the position he plays, which is understandable if you know Italian football. Don't know what Babel's excuse is. But anyway, let's compare:

Fergie bought Nani and Anderson. Manc supporter practically blew their loads (well, the one's I know) when he signed these over-hyped and relatively unknowns. But they had to be amazing considering they both cost about 40 million, or there abouts for the pair. I'm not going to drag out the stats on that one either, but if you look at say Rafa's equivalent buy which is Lucas to Anderson, then Lucas cost considerably less, captained the Brazilian under-21's, and is now playing for the first team. His form of late has spiked and is starting to show some of the promise of when Rafa first bought him, no more evident than in his bossing of the Manc midfield in the last two games against them, and steady performances here and there in the last couple of games. He's not been a revelation, but he has come in and done a job.
Then you look at Babel to Nani. Babel cost 11 million, was a highly rated prospect at Ajax and under-21 Holland international. Again, not dragging out the stats, but hasn't he scored more goals in all competition than the pudding called Nani? Fergie practically spunked 17 million pound on a circus act clown who does summersaults after a goal.

Here's my point in all of this: certain managers can get away with signing duds, while certain others can't. The whole "Rafa has bought one or two players, and the rest are duds" is a w"nker's argument, one which the press just loves to latch onto at any given oportunity.

Signing the likes of Voronin, Degen, Kromkamp, Keane, Babel etc etc is a justified argument that Rafa has made big errors at times in the market, but there isn't a manager alive that hasn't made f*ck ups when signing players. As far as I'm concerned, the one thing Benitez is truely guilty of is not signing the two or three players of adequate standard for this club to come from the reserves or the bench and make a big difference to our seasons. For this he has exercised poor judgement IMO, like buying Johnson when he should have been looking for a second striker, even though we did need a quality full-back and Johnson has since proven to be a massive improvement to the position. That's the thing: Rafa has built a quality first 11 and spent wisely (with the acception of Keane) in big money transfers to improve the respective first 11 areas, a first 11 that I believe is as good as any in the country. It's the bench where he's been found wanting.

I would just like to say that you're aesthetically pleasing signature is blemished by that brainless quote beneath it.

The Maradona one? I thought it was funny at the time. Would be a laugh if Rafa said it after we qualify in the group of the CL.

[made in UK]

[heimdall]

Thats an eyeopening post up there ciggy. Interesting read indeed.

Yeah I agree that was pretty interesting, proves that the two clowns have actually backed Rafa in the transfer market. Had to laugh at the N'Gog looks promising bit though 

You also have to take into account that most players whether they are good or bad will appreciate in value at a top club so that isn't really a master stroke by Rafa.

Anyway it is clear that it was 08/09 that it all went pear shaped in terms of signings, becuase from then on we only had one proper striker, although he is the best around. Also that Greek defender was a horrible signing, terrible player.

I think if we had kept hold of some of the strikers like Crouch then we would have won last year, or even gotten Keane up to speed, I still think he is a class player but something went horribly wrong there.

[Bammo]

N'Gog is young and scores goals, what more do you want?

The "horrible", "terrible" greek was bought because we needed a defender and your beloved G&H wouldn't pay for Upson, Hangeland, Turner or Shawcross.

Crouch rejected a contract because he didn't want to be behind Torres in the pecking order. The ONLY way he would have stayed is if he'd been first choice.

As has been hinted at by players and Tony Barrett, Keane was reluctant to change his style of play for the benefit of the team. As much as I wanted him to succeed, Keane may have caused even more unrest in the dressing room hadhe stayed.

[heimdall]

N'Gog is young and scores goals, what more do you want?

The "horrible", "terrible" greek was bought because we needed a defender and your beloved G&H wouldn't pay for Upson, Hangeland, Turner or Shawcross.

Crouch rejected a contract because he didn't want to be behind Torres in the pecking order. The ONLY way he would have stayed is if he'd been first choice.

As has been hinted at by players and Tony Barrett, Keane was reluctant to change his style of play for the benefit of the team. As much as I wanted him to succeed, Keane may have caused even more unrest in the dressing room hadhe stayed.

N'Gog scores tap ins, he has terrible movement, terrible vision and will never ever be a top striker, we have only one viable striker and that is a disgrace for a club with title ambitions.

As for calling them "my beloved G&H", I would kindly ask you to retract that as it's a terrible thing to say. I dislike them as much as anyone else. Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

[Ciggy]

Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

What are you going to do Heimdall sue him 

OMG this place gets worst, by the day

[heimdall]

Can you perhaps find some post of mine which backs up your libellous statement? 

What are you going to do Heimdall sue him 

OMG this place gets worst, by the day

Of course not but how would you feel if I accused you of having warm feelings for our owners?

To much sh1t slinging going on at the moment and it's out of order.

[big al]

It does not matter what people here will say in the end many people will make their minds up on Rafa based on their own personal experience.  You all like me use your emotions to judge the man.  There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa has difficulty in expressing his emotions in public ( I know this because its my job to analyse peoples Non verbal communication, and their facial gestures.)  It is not healthy for aqnyone to repress emotions.  Rafa struggles when he tries to be open.  His television attack on fergie last year showed that he is not confortable when he uses emotive language.  He struggles because he does not want to appear weak.  Rafa is actually a very complex individual.  At times I used to think he was overly modest but his lack of consideration for others displaced this option.  He prefers to be tasked focused which detracts from the necessity of maintaining the group dynamic of a sporting team.  He is very unfairly treated by the press because of his guarded responses to media questions and the media bias against Liverpool does not help him.  So in my opinion any criticism of Rafa's lack of ability to show his players a caring side is very much justified.  The thing is Rafa knows this and has brought Sammy Lee in to be the listening ear for the players.  It worked last season but has failed this season partly due to the departure of Alonso who was a well liked and respected player. Xabi had a far greater effect on players that we give him credit for.

[LFC2007]

Ciggy's opener is interesting. I think if you had before each window a list of the squad at the time, it would give a better overall picture of whether he made the best use of the funds available e.g. looking at which areas needed it most, and whether he might have concentrated his spending, rather than spreading it over a few positions.

[Emerald Red]

Ciggy's opener is interesting. I think if you had before each window a list of the squad at the time, it would give a better overall picture of whether he made the best use of the funds available e.g. looking at which areas needed it most, and whether he might have concentrated his spending, rather than spreading it over a few positions.

Before the summer I cited that right-back was an absolute priority and that Arbeloa just wasn't effective enough there. Obviously RB thought the same and went out and granted my wish. IMO he used the funds given there to great effect as Johnson can easily be seen as a vast improvement over the Spaniard. However, I distinctly remember Rafa coming out in the press after buying Johnson that he had enough funds for "another big signing" or similar words to that effect. Where was this other big signing? It certainly wasn't Aquilani, as he was an improvised revision in Rafa's plans due to Xabi's impromtu exit, and it certainly didn't pertain to the funds gained from that deal either. Did Rafa have a striker lined up. Surely if the man could see right-back was priority, then he would also know that a CF was an absolute must?

Edit - just realized ciggy's post was regarding spending over his entire tenure rather than just this summer.

[Bammo]

Heimdall: The G&H comment was just banter, nothing more. I apologise if you really are offended. iIt was made in reference to the fact you continually claim the owners have backed Rafa. My examples of Turner/Upson/Shawcross etc was to show they haven't backed him. Because of not funding a move for one of them we ended up with Kyrgiakos who who don't rate.

As for N'Gog, most people who watch him will tell you he has excellent off the ball movement. What he lacks at the moment is physical presence. Mind you, we seem to differ on what a striker is for. I'd be quite happy for N'Gog to stand up front and score tap-ins whenever he plays. We could have done with that against Fulham.

[big al]

Bammo I agree re NGog needs to get some beef on him, as did Adebayor and now look at him.  I was very impressed by NGog in the Arsenal game and was surprised when he was sub'd

[JoeTerp]

You cannot say that since we have spent 220ish million since Rafa took over that we could have bought u, v, w, x, y, and z, for that amount instead of all this cr@p and we would be great now.   A big reason he has even been able to buy that much is because he was able to buy cheap players and sell them for slightly more and then take those slightly more expensive players and sell them and buy someone a little bit better.

16 million net per window.

Hindsight is 20/20.

don't understand the point of "its actually cheaper to by less players than more players even if their combined transfer fees are the same because you have to pay more signing on fees"  Don't more expensive players just get bigger fees? Isn't most of that based on a percentage?