In English Football, Firing The Manager Not Usually The Answer
Premier League clubs who have long-term managers are more successful than those who change their managers on a frequent basis, say business school researchers.
Because there's nothing sports clubs want more than advice from academics who examine past trends and draw conclusions based on the fact that elite clubs fire people less.
Using data from the inception of the Premier League in 1992 until 2004, which focuses on the short-term and long-term impact of manager change in the top flight of English football, they concluded that 'illusion effects', where the illusion of a short-term reprieve such as when results typically improve following an appointment of a new manager, makes managers and owners believe that things are improving at the club. However, underlying weaknesses and strategic problems, which have not typically been addressed, dictate that performance typically drops to previous standards until problems have been resolved..
The average tenure for a Premiership manager is now 1.38 years, compared to 3.12 years in 2002, with many departures attributed to the fear of relegation to the Football League Championship, which can create a revenue gap of £56- £70 million, according to figures from Deloitte.
Research shows that because of this, there is immense pressure on managers to succeed in the Premier League, with poor results typically resulting in a scapegoating reaction by sacking the manager. Scapegoating theory holds that changing managers will not affect performance and is simply a ritual to apportion blame.
Paul Hughes, from Loughborough University's Business School, believes that the research underlines the desire in top-flight football to achieve instant success.
"Our research illustrates that alongside the obvious examples of Arsenal and Manchester United, those Premiership clubs who retain the services of their manager for a longer period of time are more likely to have successful results. Sam Allardyce's tenure at Bolton Wanderers is an excellent example of this. More recently, David Moyes' tenure at Everton shows how giving managers sufficient time and allowing them time to address the problems within a club can lead to far greater achievements."
Co-researcher and lead author Mat Hughes, from The University of Nottingham, said:
"The research leads us to question how effective sacking a manager really is to teams. Getting rid of the manager means clubs lose a lot of tacit knowledge and although the new manager will quickly change things, those changes might not be the best or right ones.
"Football managers forever state that they need more time in the post to have an effect and our findings show there is much truth to their arguments. It takes time for the managers to reshape the team, its infrastructure, the scouting network, learn about players and the opposition. One of the dangers is that sacking the manager, and the almost inevitable rotation of the coaching staff that goes with that event, causes a lot of important knowledge about the team's strengths, weaknesses, preferences and capabilities to be lost. While the new manager comes in and will quickly seek to reshape the team's style and tactics to suit the new manager's preferred style and ways of doing things, that initial 'shock' does seem to jolt performance away from the rate of decline seen previously.
"Our findings encourage boards and fans to better manage their expectations of the consequences of change. In saying that, we don't dispute that change is often needed — but it should not be a rash response to performance declines."
'Vicious circle theory' posits that changing managers can lead to a decline in performance, because change disrupts well-established processes and brings instabilities and tensions which can have a detrimental effect on results.
The studies suggest that the 'scapegoating approach' of sacking managers early and replacing them in the hope of improved performance is a fallacy, with the Loughborough-research suggesting that manager change may take longer than one year to effect strategic change.
Managers should therefore be given time to improve the club, team and address underlying weaknesses, before any decision to sack them is made. Decisions to sack a manager should be based on their ability to correct weaknesses and thus improve long-term performance, rather than analysing the ratio of wins against results.
Paul added: "Clubs who chop and change their managers — often with no opportunity for the manager to implement real change — tend to experience a long-term downturn in results, even if they have initially experienced success following the appointment of a new manager.
"Our findings suggest that sacking a manager often deflects from the real underlying issues at clubs, which need to be addressed before continuity and success will be achieved."
The research was produced alongside academics from the University of Sheffield and UWE in Bristol.
source : www.scientificbloggin.com
Sack Him - All Venting In Here Please
by spion » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
For starters this aint no forum, I've been a member for years & if your opinion differs from the fanboys on here you are derided at every oppertunity.
All I can say is that Benitez always seems to rest on the negitive aspects of his tenure at Liverpool & will remind everyone of his struggle against the financial constraints whenever a microphone is put under his nose. We forget the dire one paced game that Houlliers regime brought & have become so obsessed with the premier league that in some ways we have taken our eye off the real goal.
Liverpool used to play a passing, contained measured game that ground down even the most stoic defences which always has a smattering of class all over the pitch. We dont need eleven world beaters but maybe five top class footballers in the first team who will always help the rest of the team to raise there game. Reina, Gerrard & Torres are the three players that hould always be on the team sheet with Mascherano & Carra also penned in. Leaving that we are six players light. Agger at full fitness is a quality player & Johnson will be a regular fixture so really its four players that are missing. If Benitez was given a substantial war chest for those remaining four players i.e a left back central midfielder (if Aquilani is as good as we hope it'll be three players) wingers & a striker we could be right up there.
Sadly in todays game you need to have a great deal of money every season to compete with the competition & that is a fact. Johnson & Aquilani aside Benitez should've had another twenty to twenty five million to spend last summer but due to debt problems his money was stopped just before a possible bid for Snijder hapened. To blame Benitez is to blame fate & the fact that injuries to Liverpools two best players have seriously hampered Liverpools ability to compete at a suitable level.
My one & only problem with Benitez is why he picks players that everyone can see are not good enough for the first team. Voronin is not interested in playing for liverpool & in my opinion Benitez is only using the player so he can offload him in January for a better price, this goes for Babbel too.
If the club sack Benitez now we can kiss goodbye to the league title for another five years.
All I can say is that Benitez always seems to rest on the negitive aspects of his tenure at Liverpool & will remind everyone of his struggle against the financial constraints whenever a microphone is put under his nose. We forget the dire one paced game that Houlliers regime brought & have become so obsessed with the premier league that in some ways we have taken our eye off the real goal.
Liverpool used to play a passing, contained measured game that ground down even the most stoic defences which always has a smattering of class all over the pitch. We dont need eleven world beaters but maybe five top class footballers in the first team who will always help the rest of the team to raise there game. Reina, Gerrard & Torres are the three players that hould always be on the team sheet with Mascherano & Carra also penned in. Leaving that we are six players light. Agger at full fitness is a quality player & Johnson will be a regular fixture so really its four players that are missing. If Benitez was given a substantial war chest for those remaining four players i.e a left back central midfielder (if Aquilani is as good as we hope it'll be three players) wingers & a striker we could be right up there.
Sadly in todays game you need to have a great deal of money every season to compete with the competition & that is a fact. Johnson & Aquilani aside Benitez should've had another twenty to twenty five million to spend last summer but due to debt problems his money was stopped just before a possible bid for Snijder hapened. To blame Benitez is to blame fate & the fact that injuries to Liverpools two best players have seriously hampered Liverpools ability to compete at a suitable level.
My one & only problem with Benitez is why he picks players that everyone can see are not good enough for the first team. Voronin is not interested in playing for liverpool & in my opinion Benitez is only using the player so he can offload him in January for a better price, this goes for Babbel too.
If the club sack Benitez now we can kiss goodbye to the league title for another five years.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:10 pm
Former Liverpool star Dietmar Hamann says Reds boss Rafael Benitez is the right man to turn their fortunes around despite six defeats in seven games.
Hamman, who played under Benitez at Anfield, has dismissed suggestions that the Spaniard should be sacked.
"People calling for Rafa's head are being very premature," Hamann told BBC Sport. "He has been there five years and has improved them every season.
"Rafa has got everything a top-class manager needs, he will turn it around."
Defeat at Fulham on Saturday means Liverpool are on their worst run for more than 50 years and they face a crucial week in their season as they travel to Lyon in the Champions League on Wednesday and host Birmingham in the Premier League on Monday.
Losing at Lyon would leave Liverpool's hopes of reaching the last 16 in Europe hanging by a thread, while they have already lost five of their 11 league matches this season - including a 3-1 reverse at Fulham on Saturday.
Ex-Reds star Ronnie Whelan was quoted on Monday as saying "it's all gone wrong with the manager" and Benitez's days at Anfield are "numbered", while former striker Stan Collymore also said the former Valencia coach should be sacked.
But Hamann, who played a pivotal role as a substitute in Liverpool's stunning Champions League victory over AC Milan in Istanbul in 2005, says his former club must stick with Benitez.
"It's almost the first time in his five-year period at Anfield where they've had a bad spell like this," added Hamann. "Every year Rafa has gradually improved Liverpool, every year he has taken them forward.
"There are still another 27 games left in the league and while I don't think they can win it after the start they have made, there is plenty of time to get into that top four.
"The team is good enough to pull through. They were pretty unlucky at Fulham - they could have been ahead at half-time and both the sendings off were harsh, sometimes things just don't go your way.
"But all they need are a couple of good results and a couple of key players to be fit again and once they've won once or twice everything will be fine again."
Whelan heavily criticised Benitez's decision to take star striker Fernando Torres off after 63 minutes of the defeat at Craven Cottage with the score 1-1, but Hamann dismissed the Irishman's comments.
"I don't think you can blame the manager for taking Torres off when he's clearly not 100% fit - maybe Torres asked to be taken off, who knows?" said Hamann.
"It's just ridiculous that people are coming out and saying these things when only the manager knows how fit people are, only he is in charge of that team. I don't think that's up to anyone else to judge.
"I think this game in Lyon on Wednesday is more important than any of the league games they have played recently.
"Financially for Liverpool it is vital for them to reach the last 16 of the Champions League, so at this moment in time you can see why Rafa would prioritise Wednesday's game more than Fulham away.
"There is so much time left in the league - and you saw with Manchester City drawing on Sunday that teams aren't exactly capitalising when Liverpool don't win.
"The big four all lost at least twice in their first 10 games so it seems more competitive at the top and this will work in Liverpool's favour, because you won't need quite as many points as in previous years to get into that top four.
"With Alberto Aquilani getting fit, Steven Gerrard on his way back and the fact that they won't lose any players to the African Cup of Nations in January, I think we'll see Liverpool improving from now on."
One former player knows what he is talking about it seems .
Oh and Whelan has slagged off Rafa ever since Rafa arrived - he claimed Rafa was lucky to win both the CL and the FA Cup and even coming second last season - He also said buying Torres was a mistake at the time due to him being unproven and too expensive .And colleymore is just a gobsh.ite
Hamman, who played under Benitez at Anfield, has dismissed suggestions that the Spaniard should be sacked.
"People calling for Rafa's head are being very premature," Hamann told BBC Sport. "He has been there five years and has improved them every season.
"Rafa has got everything a top-class manager needs, he will turn it around."
Defeat at Fulham on Saturday means Liverpool are on their worst run for more than 50 years and they face a crucial week in their season as they travel to Lyon in the Champions League on Wednesday and host Birmingham in the Premier League on Monday.
Losing at Lyon would leave Liverpool's hopes of reaching the last 16 in Europe hanging by a thread, while they have already lost five of their 11 league matches this season - including a 3-1 reverse at Fulham on Saturday.
Ex-Reds star Ronnie Whelan was quoted on Monday as saying "it's all gone wrong with the manager" and Benitez's days at Anfield are "numbered", while former striker Stan Collymore also said the former Valencia coach should be sacked.
But Hamann, who played a pivotal role as a substitute in Liverpool's stunning Champions League victory over AC Milan in Istanbul in 2005, says his former club must stick with Benitez.
"It's almost the first time in his five-year period at Anfield where they've had a bad spell like this," added Hamann. "Every year Rafa has gradually improved Liverpool, every year he has taken them forward.
"There are still another 27 games left in the league and while I don't think they can win it after the start they have made, there is plenty of time to get into that top four.
"The team is good enough to pull through. They were pretty unlucky at Fulham - they could have been ahead at half-time and both the sendings off were harsh, sometimes things just don't go your way.
"But all they need are a couple of good results and a couple of key players to be fit again and once they've won once or twice everything will be fine again."
Whelan heavily criticised Benitez's decision to take star striker Fernando Torres off after 63 minutes of the defeat at Craven Cottage with the score 1-1, but Hamann dismissed the Irishman's comments.
"I don't think you can blame the manager for taking Torres off when he's clearly not 100% fit - maybe Torres asked to be taken off, who knows?" said Hamann.
"It's just ridiculous that people are coming out and saying these things when only the manager knows how fit people are, only he is in charge of that team. I don't think that's up to anyone else to judge.
"I think this game in Lyon on Wednesday is more important than any of the league games they have played recently.
"Financially for Liverpool it is vital for them to reach the last 16 of the Champions League, so at this moment in time you can see why Rafa would prioritise Wednesday's game more than Fulham away.
"There is so much time left in the league - and you saw with Manchester City drawing on Sunday that teams aren't exactly capitalising when Liverpool don't win.
"The big four all lost at least twice in their first 10 games so it seems more competitive at the top and this will work in Liverpool's favour, because you won't need quite as many points as in previous years to get into that top four.
"With Alberto Aquilani getting fit, Steven Gerrard on his way back and the fact that they won't lose any players to the African Cup of Nations in January, I think we'll see Liverpool improving from now on."
One former player knows what he is talking about it seems .
Oh and Whelan has slagged off Rafa ever since Rafa arrived - he claimed Rafa was lucky to win both the CL and the FA Cup and even coming second last season - He also said buying Torres was a mistake at the time due to him being unproven and too expensive .And colleymore is just a gobsh.ite
- Benny The Noon
by NANNY RED » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:13 pm
Well in Didi lad fecking well in 
Hamann urges Reds to back Benitez
edited , that Benny got in there 3 minutes earlier
Hamann urges Reds to back Benitez
edited , that Benny got in there 3 minutes earlier
Last edited by NANNY RED on Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
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NANNY RED - >> LFC Elite Member <<
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:26 pm
Done as been ordered to by Her Royal Highness Nanny the Red of Liverpool 
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:27 pm
Well in Pepe Lad
Pepe Reina insists Rafa Benitez's Liverpool project is still very much on course as he looks to commit his long-term future to the Reds.
Benitez revealed in an interview with Liverpoolfc.tv on Friday that Reina could soon be rewarded with a new deal.
After almost five years at Anfield, the Spain international is as happy as ever - and he is adamant the boss is building something special despite mixed results this season.
"My aim is to get a new contract in the future and I want to be here for many years. Apparently the club wants the same," Reina told Liverpoolfc.tv.
"It's already my fifth season here and that says it all, really. One of my daughters is a Scouser. I have some friends here and my wife and kids are happy. I have every reason to stay longer and of course I will.
"Titles are what we are all here for. As a Liverpool player, you have to have these ambitions. Trophies are the most important thing, and the most important one is probably the Premier League.
"Rafa Benitez is building something special here. He proved that when he came here - the club was one thing and now it's something totally different. We have grown up and we can still grow up a little bit more."
The 3-1 defeat at Fulham on Saturday was Liverpool's fifth loss of the league campaign, a stat which has left them nine points behind leaders Chelsea.
But with 81 points still to play for, Reina is confident the Reds can yet mount a serious title charge.
"It's not even close to being over," said the Spaniard, who has made 221 appearances since joining from Villarreal in 2005.
"We have to go game by game. Now we must focus on Lyon, which is massive, and after that Birmingham is a must-win game."
Reina was the man who orchestrated a group huddle before Liverpool's victory over Manchester United a week ago.
He believes such spirit will be key to getting the Reds back on course over the coming weeks.
"All of us have to keep everyone else's head up," said the 27-year-old.
"In weak moments, strong people have to appear. I want to be one of them and support my teammates if they need it.
"The key is to stay together and not read the press. Belief is the word we need to use the most - belief in ourselves and our teammates.
"We were a bit unlucky on Saturday. We didn't play as bad as at other times. It was not even close to our worst game.
"It's a tough moment but we have to stick together and try to sort things out on the pitch and in every single training session. We have pride in wearing this shirt and we have to defend it until the end.
"Any defeat hurts someone with ambition and someone who is hungry for titles. But it doesn't matter how many times you fall down - what matters is how many times you get up and keeping trying to be the best.
"That's what we have to do now. We have to go back to our principles, sort out the problems we're having and go back to being the Liverpool everyone wants."
Pepe Reina insists Rafa Benitez's Liverpool project is still very much on course as he looks to commit his long-term future to the Reds.
Benitez revealed in an interview with Liverpoolfc.tv on Friday that Reina could soon be rewarded with a new deal.
After almost five years at Anfield, the Spain international is as happy as ever - and he is adamant the boss is building something special despite mixed results this season.
"My aim is to get a new contract in the future and I want to be here for many years. Apparently the club wants the same," Reina told Liverpoolfc.tv.
"It's already my fifth season here and that says it all, really. One of my daughters is a Scouser. I have some friends here and my wife and kids are happy. I have every reason to stay longer and of course I will.
"Titles are what we are all here for. As a Liverpool player, you have to have these ambitions. Trophies are the most important thing, and the most important one is probably the Premier League.
"Rafa Benitez is building something special here. He proved that when he came here - the club was one thing and now it's something totally different. We have grown up and we can still grow up a little bit more."
The 3-1 defeat at Fulham on Saturday was Liverpool's fifth loss of the league campaign, a stat which has left them nine points behind leaders Chelsea.
But with 81 points still to play for, Reina is confident the Reds can yet mount a serious title charge.
"It's not even close to being over," said the Spaniard, who has made 221 appearances since joining from Villarreal in 2005.
"We have to go game by game. Now we must focus on Lyon, which is massive, and after that Birmingham is a must-win game."
Reina was the man who orchestrated a group huddle before Liverpool's victory over Manchester United a week ago.
He believes such spirit will be key to getting the Reds back on course over the coming weeks.
"All of us have to keep everyone else's head up," said the 27-year-old.
"In weak moments, strong people have to appear. I want to be one of them and support my teammates if they need it.
"The key is to stay together and not read the press. Belief is the word we need to use the most - belief in ourselves and our teammates.
"We were a bit unlucky on Saturday. We didn't play as bad as at other times. It was not even close to our worst game.
"It's a tough moment but we have to stick together and try to sort things out on the pitch and in every single training session. We have pride in wearing this shirt and we have to defend it until the end.
"Any defeat hurts someone with ambition and someone who is hungry for titles. But it doesn't matter how many times you fall down - what matters is how many times you get up and keeping trying to be the best.
"That's what we have to do now. We have to go back to our principles, sort out the problems we're having and go back to being the Liverpool everyone wants."
- Benny The Noon
by Sir Roger » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:13 pm
I agree with the point about sensationalist stories. These wan'ker journalists see something they can get their teeth into with all this "crisis" talk and many seem to have it in for Rafa.
I am disappointed with Whelan shoving the knife in. As fans we all desperately want silverware, particularly the PL. This has overshadowed our reason in some cases, especially with the skanks seemingly going to overtake us with 19. But theres a long way to go and everyone will lose more games (hopefully not us). Lets see where we stand at the end of this month before we speak of "crisis"
I am disappointed with Whelan shoving the knife in. As fans we all desperately want silverware, particularly the PL. This has overshadowed our reason in some cases, especially with the skanks seemingly going to overtake us with 19. But theres a long way to go and everyone will lose more games (hopefully not us). Lets see where we stand at the end of this month before we speak of "crisis"
- Sir Roger
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by account deleted by request » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:37 pm
By Alan Hansen
Former Liverpool defender and Match of the Day pundit
Rafael Benitez's future as Liverpool manager is again the source of speculation - and while all that I am hearing from the Anfield hierarchy suggest he is in no danger of losing his job, results dictate everything.
I will never advocate the sacking of any manager because I was someone who never had the bottle to do the job, but Benitez is under pressure. This is not me saying it - the facts, in the shape of poor results, are saying it.
If you lose six games out of seven as Liverpool manager you are under pressure. You cannot hide from it. If Liverpool's season is finished at the start of November, FA Cup apart, do not try and tell me Benitez is not under pressure.
It makes the Champions League game against Lyon on Wednesday and home league games against Birmingham and, particularly, Manchester City of huge significance now.
I tipped Liverpool to win the Premier League before the start of the season. This was not a prediction based on old Anfield loyalties - it was based on the evidence of what I had seen from Liverpool in the last three months of last season.
Benitez, after the way Liverpool had taken Real Madrid apart in the Champions League at Anfield, looked to have discovered the way to play against teams at home - namely by going out, penning them in and battering them.
Liverpool had enjoyed good results against the other top four sides while Manchester United were inevitably weakened by the departure of Cristiano Ronaldo. People talk about Eric Cantona and Thierry Henry, but Ronaldo was the biggest player ever in the Premier League, so United were never going to replace what he gave them.
I really felt this was going to be Liverpool's season, but there is not just a difference in the level of performances from week to week, there is a chasm. In the space of six days, they performed magnificently against Manchester United and then more or less went down without a fight at Fulham.
Lots has been made of the departure of Xabi Alonso. I believe this has been a factor, but when I hear people suggest he was Liverpool's best player last season I almost laugh out loud. If Alonso was better than Gerrard last season, then I never kicked a ball in my life.
Liverpool missed a trick by not signing Gareth Barry. He was desperate to come to Liverpool at one point and would have been perfect for them. He is English, mature, professional and can play with equal efficiency in a variety of positions. The way he has performed for Manchester City has shown what Liverpool have missed out on.
At Fulham on Saturday, the much-maligned Lucas played 12 or 14 passes forward that were as good as anything he has produced, but Liverpool were still useless. And I didn't see Alonso on the pitch when Liverpool played so well the previous Sunday against Manchester United. So, yes, Alonso's departure has been a factor, but it must not be over-stated.
Benitez spent his big money in the summer on Roma's Alberto Aquilani, but we have only seen 15 minutes of him in the Carling Cup at Arsenal because of injury and illness. He played one ball over the top that was world-class, but we wait to see more.
At the end of last season, Liverpool had a wonderful spine running down the team. Pepe Reina is an excellent keeper, then you had Jamie Carragher in central defence, Alonso and Javier Mascherano in midfield, and then Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres further up the pitch.
Alonso's gone, Gerrard and Torres have been injured, and Carragher has not been at his best. This is the time when others need to step up to the plate, but they haven't done it.
The best Liverpool sides I played in had rotten days even when we were winning silverware with regularity at home and abroad. But then it was a case of thinking "we're all in this together", rallying around and coming out fighting. That was not the case at Fulham at the weekend. Then there was a lack of fight - and that can't happen at Liverpool Football Club.
If you took the two best players out of any top side, it would have an effect but would not be catastrophic... if you take Gerrard and Torres out of Liverpool's team, it is all over
After a superb end to last season, Liverpool rightly looked at areas they could improve, and the obvious one was out wide. Benitez addressed this by signing Glen Johnson.
He has done well, but Emiliano Insua has struggled on the other side. He is only a boy and we must bear that in mind, but at the moment I cannot understand why Benitez keeps playing him. To get the balance right out wide, maybe something has been sacrificed in other defensive areas, a problem made worse by Carragher and Martin Skrtel struggling more than Liverpool are used to.
Liverpool never really had to worry about central defence before, it just worked. There has been a lack of confidence this season and mistakes have been made that were not being made before.
Benitez has been unlucky in that Daniel Agger, one of the young players of real quality you can see coming through at Liverpool and becoming a real stalwart, has been injured so often.
Carragher was immense in the win against Manchester United at Anfield, but I thought Agger was magnificent. He has been a real loss. For him to come back in, show his quality, and then go out injured again is a real stroke of ill-fortune.
The big problem for Benitez has been his signings in what you might term the mid-range bracket - and this only highlights the over-reliance on the two players of unquestionable world-class talent in Gerrard and Torres.
If you took the two best players out of any top side, it would have an effect but would not be catastrophic. If you take Gerrard and Torres out of Liverpool's team, it is all over.
Liverpool have missed the midfield creativity of Xabi Alonso
I looked at the Liverpool team at Craven Cottage and I can bet my bottom dollar that Fulham would have really fancied their chances. Never underestimate the impact a team-sheet can have on the opposing dressing room.
You might see Gerrard and Torres on the Liverpool team-sheet and still be confident you can beat them, but inside you will know you will be up against two players who can win matches against any team in the world. This has an effect.
Sooner or later, Liverpool have to find players who can take responsibility when they are not playing. You have Reina, Carragher and Mascherano, but where are the others?
This is where Benitez's buying has to be questioned. He made a wonderful signing in Torres at the top end of the market, but the percentage of success in the £3m-£10m category is not high enough. You're not asking for it to be unrealistically high, but you're asking for it to be higher than it has been under Benitez.
Agger can be counted as a success, while Reina is a top keeper, but there are not too many successes elsewhere.
You could argue that Liverpool should be in the market for £20m or £30m players on a regular basis to get around that problem, but that's another story involving other parts of the club.
Benitez's substitutions came under attack at Fulham, particularly the decision to take Torres off when it was 1-1, but I wouldn't criticise the manager too much for that. Torres was really struggling and Benitez had to weigh up whether to continue playing him and face the prospect of losing him for several weeks.
Other substitutions can be questioned, though, such as Yossi Benayoun's on Saturday and during the defeat against Lyon in the Champions League.
The results Liverpool have had mean Benitez is inevitably under pressure and some pivotal games are coming up.
The worry for me is that while pivotal games in April or May are fine, defeats in October could mean having vital matches this early in the season, which makes the forthcoming fixtures even more important for Liverpool and Benitez.
Alan Hansen was speaking to Phil McNulty
Very good article by Hansen
Former Liverpool defender and Match of the Day pundit
Rafael Benitez's future as Liverpool manager is again the source of speculation - and while all that I am hearing from the Anfield hierarchy suggest he is in no danger of losing his job, results dictate everything.
I will never advocate the sacking of any manager because I was someone who never had the bottle to do the job, but Benitez is under pressure. This is not me saying it - the facts, in the shape of poor results, are saying it.
If you lose six games out of seven as Liverpool manager you are under pressure. You cannot hide from it. If Liverpool's season is finished at the start of November, FA Cup apart, do not try and tell me Benitez is not under pressure.
It makes the Champions League game against Lyon on Wednesday and home league games against Birmingham and, particularly, Manchester City of huge significance now.
I tipped Liverpool to win the Premier League before the start of the season. This was not a prediction based on old Anfield loyalties - it was based on the evidence of what I had seen from Liverpool in the last three months of last season.
Benitez, after the way Liverpool had taken Real Madrid apart in the Champions League at Anfield, looked to have discovered the way to play against teams at home - namely by going out, penning them in and battering them.
Liverpool had enjoyed good results against the other top four sides while Manchester United were inevitably weakened by the departure of Cristiano Ronaldo. People talk about Eric Cantona and Thierry Henry, but Ronaldo was the biggest player ever in the Premier League, so United were never going to replace what he gave them.
I really felt this was going to be Liverpool's season, but there is not just a difference in the level of performances from week to week, there is a chasm. In the space of six days, they performed magnificently against Manchester United and then more or less went down without a fight at Fulham.
Lots has been made of the departure of Xabi Alonso. I believe this has been a factor, but when I hear people suggest he was Liverpool's best player last season I almost laugh out loud. If Alonso was better than Gerrard last season, then I never kicked a ball in my life.
Liverpool missed a trick by not signing Gareth Barry. He was desperate to come to Liverpool at one point and would have been perfect for them. He is English, mature, professional and can play with equal efficiency in a variety of positions. The way he has performed for Manchester City has shown what Liverpool have missed out on.
At Fulham on Saturday, the much-maligned Lucas played 12 or 14 passes forward that were as good as anything he has produced, but Liverpool were still useless. And I didn't see Alonso on the pitch when Liverpool played so well the previous Sunday against Manchester United. So, yes, Alonso's departure has been a factor, but it must not be over-stated.
Benitez spent his big money in the summer on Roma's Alberto Aquilani, but we have only seen 15 minutes of him in the Carling Cup at Arsenal because of injury and illness. He played one ball over the top that was world-class, but we wait to see more.
At the end of last season, Liverpool had a wonderful spine running down the team. Pepe Reina is an excellent keeper, then you had Jamie Carragher in central defence, Alonso and Javier Mascherano in midfield, and then Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres further up the pitch.
Alonso's gone, Gerrard and Torres have been injured, and Carragher has not been at his best. This is the time when others need to step up to the plate, but they haven't done it.
The best Liverpool sides I played in had rotten days even when we were winning silverware with regularity at home and abroad. But then it was a case of thinking "we're all in this together", rallying around and coming out fighting. That was not the case at Fulham at the weekend. Then there was a lack of fight - and that can't happen at Liverpool Football Club.
If you took the two best players out of any top side, it would have an effect but would not be catastrophic... if you take Gerrard and Torres out of Liverpool's team, it is all over
After a superb end to last season, Liverpool rightly looked at areas they could improve, and the obvious one was out wide. Benitez addressed this by signing Glen Johnson.
He has done well, but Emiliano Insua has struggled on the other side. He is only a boy and we must bear that in mind, but at the moment I cannot understand why Benitez keeps playing him. To get the balance right out wide, maybe something has been sacrificed in other defensive areas, a problem made worse by Carragher and Martin Skrtel struggling more than Liverpool are used to.
Liverpool never really had to worry about central defence before, it just worked. There has been a lack of confidence this season and mistakes have been made that were not being made before.
Benitez has been unlucky in that Daniel Agger, one of the young players of real quality you can see coming through at Liverpool and becoming a real stalwart, has been injured so often.
Carragher was immense in the win against Manchester United at Anfield, but I thought Agger was magnificent. He has been a real loss. For him to come back in, show his quality, and then go out injured again is a real stroke of ill-fortune.
The big problem for Benitez has been his signings in what you might term the mid-range bracket - and this only highlights the over-reliance on the two players of unquestionable world-class talent in Gerrard and Torres.
If you took the two best players out of any top side, it would have an effect but would not be catastrophic. If you take Gerrard and Torres out of Liverpool's team, it is all over.
Liverpool have missed the midfield creativity of Xabi Alonso
I looked at the Liverpool team at Craven Cottage and I can bet my bottom dollar that Fulham would have really fancied their chances. Never underestimate the impact a team-sheet can have on the opposing dressing room.
You might see Gerrard and Torres on the Liverpool team-sheet and still be confident you can beat them, but inside you will know you will be up against two players who can win matches against any team in the world. This has an effect.
Sooner or later, Liverpool have to find players who can take responsibility when they are not playing. You have Reina, Carragher and Mascherano, but where are the others?
This is where Benitez's buying has to be questioned. He made a wonderful signing in Torres at the top end of the market, but the percentage of success in the £3m-£10m category is not high enough. You're not asking for it to be unrealistically high, but you're asking for it to be higher than it has been under Benitez.
Agger can be counted as a success, while Reina is a top keeper, but there are not too many successes elsewhere.
You could argue that Liverpool should be in the market for £20m or £30m players on a regular basis to get around that problem, but that's another story involving other parts of the club.
Benitez's substitutions came under attack at Fulham, particularly the decision to take Torres off when it was 1-1, but I wouldn't criticise the manager too much for that. Torres was really struggling and Benitez had to weigh up whether to continue playing him and face the prospect of losing him for several weeks.
Other substitutions can be questioned, though, such as Yossi Benayoun's on Saturday and during the defeat against Lyon in the Champions League.
The results Liverpool have had mean Benitez is inevitably under pressure and some pivotal games are coming up.
The worry for me is that while pivotal games in April or May are fine, defeats in October could mean having vital matches this early in the season, which makes the forthcoming fixtures even more important for Liverpool and Benitez.
Alan Hansen was speaking to Phil McNulty
Very good article by Hansen
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 pm
Think overall its a good post but on the issue of the 3mil - 10 mil players he does miss a few players out
Kuyt
Crouch
Momo
Skrtel
Yossi
Aurelio
Arbeloa
have all been successes at the club .
Kuyt
Crouch
Momo
Skrtel
Yossi
Aurelio
Arbeloa
have all been successes at the club .
- Benny The Noon
by account deleted by request » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:46 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:Think overall its a good post but on the issue of the 3mil - 10 mil players he does miss a few players out
Kuyt
Crouch
Momo
Skrtel
Yossi
Aurelio
Arbeloa
have all been successes at the club .
I think they are "value" players rather than outstanding buys. i.e. Riise was a value player while Hyypia was an outstanding buy under Houllier.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:47 pm
Sorry forgot to add you also have to look at the other teams signings between 3-10 mil - how many of them have been a success at Man Utd/Chelsea ? Van Der Sar ? Vidic and Evra maybe ? who else
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:49 pm
s@int wrote:Benny The Noon wrote:Think overall its a good post but on the issue of the 3mil - 10 mil players he does miss a few players out
Kuyt
Crouch
Momo
Skrtel
Yossi
Aurelio
Arbeloa
have all been successes at the club .
I think they are "value" players rather than outstanding buys. i.e. Riise was a value player while Hyypia was an outstanding buy under Houllier.
Very true saint but i think you can count them all as a success thou as opposed to outstanding buys - looking around the prem etc there arent many outstanding buys below 10 mil recently .
- Benny The Noon
by account deleted by request » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:56 pm
Heinze, Foster, Tevez, Owen.
The mancs have signed 23 players since Rafa came .... Rafa has signed 67
The mancs have signed 23 players since Rafa came .... Rafa has signed 67
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