Liverpool FC Forum

Benny The Noon wrote:Yes Redknapp has a decent team - but bet they will still end up below us come the end of the season .

You cant put the CL into the back of the mind due to the financial rewards that come with it - rewards that are vital to us being able to compete - we need to get that money and we need to do well in the CL .

Yes true but you only have to get to last 16 to get most of the payment I think its 27 mil is it ?

You get 22 mil just for T.Vs for group stage and 450k per win I think 220k per draw.

+ of course Rev for the games.

So really its good to get to last 16 but its more important to get that 4th spot each year.This I feel adds more importants to the league.You also right we might well end up above Spurs but what if we don't ? Now that would be a problem. 

Benny The Noon wrote:I dont deal ifs and buts - prefer to stick with reality .

We need to get into the top 4 and we also need to get as far as we can in the CL

Not one of those managers you have mention have the knowledge the experience or the ability to do that .

Ps. Bruce is an ex manc mecenary who has sh.at on his previous clubs and redknapp has jumped ship a number of times from previous clubs .

bunglemark2 wrote:

Ciggy wrote:Ronnie Whelan has been spouting sh!te about Rafa for years, the press have only just cottoned on to it.

Nothing to see here.......

Ciggy, I watched that interview with Ronnie Whelan the other night, and much as he bores me to tears at the best of times, I have to say he made a lot of valid observations. Not just after the Fulham fiasco, but going back over the years.
He's never pulled any punches about what he thinks of certain managers and clubs and players, and this time I agree with him at least for the most part. I doubt Rafa could be naive enough to think that a miraculous chain of events will conspire to lead him to the Champions League Cup this year, and that by doing that he will become the most cherished manager in Europe. Hell, I reckon Real Madrid fans would protest in their tens of thousands if he became manager there....
But there's no question that the decisions to take off those three on Saturday, to start with Voronin on the pitch (or to give him even sight of a pitch to start with), to start with Kyrgiakos (who is quite simply awful), to persist with Lucas and Masch in the centre of the park.....is just wrong, wrong, wrong....
Furthermore, I fully back Whelan's criticisms of the pure and utter trip Rafa has signed over the years. I know there's a list somewhere here on the forum of all the players he has signed and released in the 5 tortuous years he has been here, but maybe 1 or 2 of them are playing at the top of the game. The rest - and you can name them just as easily as I can - were a waste of time, money, effort, prevented any decent talent making a breakthrough, and were just not good enough...
On THAT, I agree with Whelan wholeheartedly...

Interesting how people jump onto what these d*ckhead ex-players have to say as if it's gospel. But they use to play for us, so I take it that means they know their apples from their oranges when it comes to managing one of the biggest clubs on the planet, balancing books, scouting, and winning major trophies. Who's Whelan managed again? F*cking talkers they are.

Just seen on SSN that some ar*sehole journo that works for the Mirror is claiming Rafa's job is about to go to Dalglish. And to think, these people get paid copoius amounts of money to make this sh*t up.

Ciggy wrote:

The_Rock wrote:If coming close is just enough for this club...then whats the difference between mick brown and benitez ?

Who the feckinell is he    

Emerald Red wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

The_Rock wrote:If coming close is just enough for this club...then whats the difference between mick brown and benitez ?

Who the feckinell is he    

Don't know who Mick Brown is, but he's talking out of his brown as per usual.

Get with it ER he is that sunbed tanned fella live up Hull way, talks about himself as the thrid person, and sings Karoke songs on the pitch

Ciggy wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

The_Rock wrote:If coming close is just enough for this club...then whats the difference between mick brown and benitez ?

Who the feckinell is he    

Don't know who Mick Brown is, but he's talking out of his brown as per usual.

Get with it ER he is that sunbed tanned fella live up Hull way, talks about himself as the thrid person, and sings Karoke songs on the pitch

Ciggy wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Ciggy wrote:

The_Rock wrote:If coming close is just enough for this club...then whats the difference between mick brown and benitez ?

Who the feckinell is he    

Don't know who Mick Brown is, but he's talking out of his brown as per usual.

Get with it ER he is that sunbed tanned fella live up Hull way, talks about himself as the thrid person, and sings Karoke songs on the pitch

He also copied Rafas goatie and then told his chairman to say he is as good as Rafa maybe to get his players to think he is Rafa. 

REDTILLDEAD wrote:As far as i can see we are in a no win situation at the moment.....the further we progress in the CL the more money "twit and " have to use to pay off their debts (coz' Rafa wont get much transfer money out of it) a long run in the CL will benefit those two "Wanks" and Rafa will still be shopping at netto instead of M&S for players next season. I'm sorry but it wont bother me if we do go out of the CL because it might be the "straw that breaks the camel's back" and force those two cowboys outta town. As for rafa he has no idea how to pick his best 11....coz' out of the 11 there is only 2 class players who are good enough to justify wearing the Red shirt, the rest are mediocre at best. after having 5 yrs to perfect the squad Rafa is relying on Torres and Gerrard to save his season what a fiasco!......its just not acceptable by LFC standards or by the fans, by the time gerrard and Torres are fully fit our season will have been well and truly blown out of the water....and we have the rest of the deadwood in our team to thank for that...along with Rafa's strange selections and p1ss poor buys over the years.

Ciggy wrote:Rafa Deserves Wenger-Style Patience
Posted 02/11/09 10:50EmailPrintSave



So Rafa Benitez reckons he doesn't have to win trophies this year. Have you finished laughing yet? Surely football is all about winning things; it's a tiresome mantra we hear all too often. Sadly, for his critics, Benitez is absolutely correct. His idiot employers may not agree but let's forget all the wind and pish and look at some facts.

If I was to ask most neutrals who was the most successful manager - Benitez or Arsene Wenger, I'd guess most would say Wenger. It sounds right doesn't it? Arsenal play magnificent football, Wenger is erudite, has a clear vision for the club and consistently develops startlingly good talent. Liverpool have just lost at Fulham. Arsenal seem miles ahead. But look at the facts.

If you put Rafa's Premier League record up against Wenger's since his arrival in 2004, Benitez is simply more successful if, and it's a crucial if, you judge success by trophies and league positions.

In his five years at the club he has won the Champions League, the FA Cup and the Super Cup. He has taken Liverpool to a higher league finish than Arsenal three times out of five. In those same five years Arsene Wenger has won just one FA Cup.

They've both been runners-up in the Premier League, Champions League and League Cup once since 2004/05.

It's close but in the five seasons Wenger and Benitez have competed against each other, the Spaniard is, by this measure, ahead of Wenger. So not that bad then. Are Arsenal about to sack Wenger? Of course not.

Only the criminally stupid would consider Wenger a failure. So why does Rafa attract such prolonged criticism when the man he has outperformed in the past five seasons rightly gets very little?

This is partly because Wenger has built capital with three league titles and four FA Cups since his arrival, but in the current climate of short-termism and collective amnesia, that counts for less and less. Mostly, it's because Arsenal have played some simply sublime football even when not winning anything, for which Wenger is rightly lauded.

More damaging to Benitez' cause is the accusation that his sides are too cautious, and simply don't play good enough football. Perhaps if they were playing like Arsenal and achieving the same results, his critics would back off. But that's unrealistic. Wenger has been in situ for eight years longer and built the club in his own image against a largely stable background. Benitez has not had that luxury and yet has still done better than Arsenal in his tenure.

People say he is cold, prickly, and even arrogant and doesn't man-manage well. Without being on the inside, it's impossible to say, however, even if it's true, let me state again, it's delivered better results than Wenger's supposedly superior methods in this period.

Surely, given Wenger's well-deserved stellar reputation, this should be a cause for celebration amongst Liverpool fans and should shut up his critics.

They constantly snipe at his managerial style, his transfer records and his tactics in a way that no-one would dream of doing about Wenger but once again, I say look at the results. They might not always have played more attractive football but they have finished higher more often and won more trophies. And on the cheap, he has brought the finest striker of his generation to the club in Torres. Let's also not forget Liverpool were a massive 14 points better than Arsenal last year.

Without going over the behind-the-scenes machinations again - I wrote enough about them a couple of weeks ago - Benitez has out-performed Wenger against a background of doubt and uncertainty. It's only eight weeks until the transfer window opens and he still hasn't a clue if any money will be available to him. So he can't plan ahead with any detail. That's no way to run a business.

People who say he should be doing better forget that Liverpool are trying to over-throw a couple of football behemoths in Manchester United and Chelsea; clubs with exceptional resources in Chelsea's case and exceptional pedigree and pulling power in United's.

This is a humongous task.

Over-hauling Chelsea last season was an exceptional achievement and not getting past United is a failure every club has experienced for 11 out of the last 17 seasons. They are simply an awesome organisation led by an extraordinary man in Ferguson. You can't just overthrow them that easily. Chelsea threw over £500 million and six managers at it and only managed to do it twice. I mean, let's get a perspective here.

Wenger is rightly acclaimed as a managerial genius but even he has only won three league titles in 13 years and two of those were achieved before the Abramovitch money transformed Chelsea. This is the size of Benitez' task.

The fact is progress can't always be made in a smooth, straight line, especially when there is so much turmoil at the club. The road to victory can be a bumpy one.

All the Benitez haters who want to see the back of him should realise that he has constructed a formidable power base at the club. All his men are in place in all the key staffing positions. He has almost certainly got a prohibitively expensive pay-out clause in his contract should he be sacked and he signed an extension to 2014 in March.

Unless he wants to, it's unlikely that he's going anywhere soon, regardless of this season's results. Getting rid of him would involve a revolution at the club which no-one can be certain would turn out positively. Indeed, things could get much, much worse. Imagine if rather than under-achieving, Rafa has over-achieved so far, given the circumstances he's worked in. His critics need to consider that as a real possibility. This is one tough, some would say impossible, gig he's playing.

And anyway, no top-class manager would want his job - working under a couple of comedians like Hicks and Gillett and constantly being on the verge of financial meltdown.

Until the club is sold, stabilised and resources delivered, Liverpool is a poisoned chalice. Forget all this Jose Mourinho nonsense, you can't afford him and he wouldn't touch the club in its present state - he's far too canny an operator.

This season might turn out to be a poor one by Rafa's standards. So be it. Everyone should be allowed an occasional poor season.

When Arsenal has a dip in form, it's called a 'transitional' season. But at Liverpool, it's called a crisis. All concerned need the kind of patience and understanding assigned to Wenger.

The size of Liverpool's task - to win the league - is being radically under-estimated by his fiercest opponents. Contrary to popular belief, Benitez isn't a failure at Liverpool, on the contrary, he's already achieved so much. Sacking him now wouldn't be surprising - but it would be an act of monumental stupidity.

http://www.football365.com/john_nicholson/0,17033,8746_5669611,00.html