Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:00 pm

He´s doing what he is very well paid to do. Win the League/CL get a bonus, otherwise survive on your generous salary sonny !

by **bigmick** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:12 pm

I didn't vote as there's no "others" option. I'm fairly encouraged by what we're seeing recently, in that it seems like we've now got mass rotation from game one and patting ourselves on the back when we avoid defeat against Stoke out of our system. It would have been nice if it hadn't taken five years to finally accept what many people have been saying for many years and what the evidence overwhelmingly suggests, but anyway we're there now so hopefully we can move forward.

I do think as I've said many times that if we don't win the league this season, we have spunked an absolutely golden opportunity of doing so. If that comes to pass, although the manager obviously deserves huge credit for making us a much better team over his five year tenure, he also gets a black mark from me for failing to grasp an extremely favourable set of circumstances. Sorry to rake over old coals as I know it provokes heated debate each time, but only the fullness of time will prove the theory correct or otherwise, being called allsorts won't actually change my opinion.

If next season both Arsenal and Chelsea are as poor in the league as they have been this, if we beat both the Mancs and Chelsea home and away, and if the Mancs are embroiled in some kind of wierd quintuplet effort, if they have to travel around the World for some meaningless thing and give us the opportunity to open up a huge lead, and if they fall out of the blocks again I'll start to think it's a regular occurance. If Arsenal are missing half their first team with injuries for most of the season, Chelsea change a patently obviously unsuitable manager mid season, and the Mancs' best player is casting wistful glances to Spain whilst performing to 60% of his potential for much of the campaign, ditto. If Aston Villa are able to keep pace with three of the big four for the first three quarters of the season again, I'll take it all back.

Most importantly however, more important than any of that stuff of course is if we can match this years sustained challenge. If that happens, one of two things will have come to pass. Firstly it will have categorically proven that it wasn't a flash in the pan our challenge, and probably proven that not for the first time, I was talking a large slice of b0ll0cks.

If on the other hand we get into Jan/Feb next season and a title win is looking pretty unlikely by then, we may just find ourselves looking nostalgically back on this seasons set of circumstances. Those halcyon days when we took 14 points out of 18 against the big four, where Chelsea and Arsenal looked so lost, when the Mancs thought it was OK to give us a start etc etc. One minus of our obvious improvement of late, is that teams will take us much more seriously from now on, and teams will realise they have to improve to compete. We will probably have to do the same, and to do so we will have to have a better transfer close season than we had last I should think.

It would be nice if at some point in the not too distant if we could win a trophy as well. Three years is quite a while for a club like Liverpool.

For me, it's "others".

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:24 pm

No brainer for me . :;):

Thought i'd bang this in here aswell . Just goes to show ,none of us really know the manager , best people to speak about him are his players.

GERRARD PRAISES RAFA MAN-MANAGEMENT

Jimmy Rice 07 May 2009

Steven Gerrard has praised Rafa Benitez's man-management, claiming it is a pleasure to play in the current Liverpool team.

The skipper believes his Spanish boss has taken the Reds to new heights this term by creating a true team ethic down at Melwood and Anfield.

Gerrard told LFC Magazine: "It is an absolute pleasure to play in this Liverpool team - I really mean that.

"We've got world-class players, we've turned in some fantastic displays of attacking football and some really, really solid defensive performances.

"There are no stars in this team, or no one with any airs or graces. We're one unit, we work hard for each other and we all pull in the same direction.

"We've got absolutely everything you need to be successful at the very highest level.

"We've got players making an impact from the start and boys coming off the bench and affecting the game. I've got to pay tribute to the manager because it's difficult for him picking only 11 players for the starting line-up.

"Keeping the lads on the bench and those who have missed out on the squad in the frame of mind to make a significant contribution is a difficult task, but Rafa's been able to do that this season.

"That's not an easy balancing act but he manages it brilliantly. He and his coaches keep everyone hungry and ready when they've been needed. As a player now you can't be selfish. Certainly, you can't be selfish at Liverpool.

"It's a squad game, and if you're not in the starting line-up you can't be thinking, 'I'm giving in'."

Gerrard added: "They've instilled this winning mentality in us. It's simple really - it's been drummed into us since the boss came to the club.

"No matter how the game's going, no matter what the scoreline is, or no matter how you might be playing personally, you keep doing the right things all the time and keep going until the end."

Liverpool finished 11 points behind United last term but, with just three games to go this time around, that gap has been reduced to just three.

Despite the improvement, Gerrard has identified areas to be addressed - including slashing this season's haul of seven home draws.

"If we are to go on to win the league this season there are a few lessons we can learn to take into the next year," he added.

"If we don't, there will still be things we can improve to make sure we are a better team next season. We have to use this one to our benefit, no matter what happens in the future.

"For example, there have been too many draws at Anfield for our liking.

"We are a great side away from home. We're strong, can be physical, don't lose too many goals and are dangerous opponents for anyone. It's difficult sometimes when you come up against these teams who arrive at Anfield with virtually every player behind the ball.

"No one comes to play attacking football because they respect what we can do and know they're going to be picked off and destroyed.

"We need to be more ruthless at home. It would certainly have helped us out this season. There are points there that, if we had taken them, we would be top with three games to go.

"But we'll keep going until the end. We won't surrender when we're so close. Winning the title with this club would mean the world to me."

Gerrard admits to feelings of 'anger' in previous campaigns when Liverpool have been out of the race by Christmas. Such memories have acted as extra motivation this time around.

"I'm not going to lie," the Huyton-born midfielder added. "Being out of the title race in January and being 30 points behind the leaders is frustrating for me.

"If being in that position doesn't frustrate you, then you're not the player for me. There's something wrong with you. But I think that anger and those feelings have helped me, certainly, and the others to get much closer to it this season.

"We have to be proud of our achievements this season, whatever happens.

"If United close it out then we're going to have a right good go over the next three, four or five years and I believe we're too good not to win it.

"I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that this team will win the Premier League trophy. I believe I'll get my hands on it."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N164285090507-1143.htm

by **bigmick** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:29 pm

Good interview that Igor, I enjoyed reading it. I think most of the forum would agree with Stevie G, that we will win it sometime in the next four of five seasons. I hope so, and provided he stays fit and we keep Torres, I think we've got a great chance too.

Just as an edited add on, I can't help thinking that our situation then would be like the Mancs in Europe. Ferguson continually talks about them not winning the Champions League as often as they should have given the teams they've had, and he's probably got a point. If they win it this season, it won't stop him still regretting the Dortmund semi etc. It'll be the same as us in three seasons if we win the league. Winning it will be fantastic, but it still won't change any feelings of regret we carry forward about this particular campaign.

It's a wee bit like that World Club Championship thing when we played that pub team from Brazil in the final and decided to go on a rotatathon. Welost the match, and I will go to my grave being 100% certain we ought to have won it. Now it may well be that it doesn't matter and it never will, but they said the same thing about European Competitions once. If we ever do win it though, it'll not change the fact that we ought to have won it then.

by **Number 9** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:38 pm

Rafa has done very little wrong this year!
Im not making excuses but if Torres and Gerrard had stayed fit we would have won the League..simple!
They are crucial to us and because of injuries have only started 11(i think it is) games together in the League..thats way less than a 3rd!

Our problem does not lie with the manager,it lies with lack of depth! UTD can suffer injuries to key players and have the luxury of bringing in players as good or very close to anyone(probably apart from Ronaldo)
I suppose folk could argue that its Rafas fault that we do not have these luxuries and they may have a case.
Bottom line is our squad is still way to big and we still lack a bit of quality cover.
A lot of deadwood needs to go and a few astute signings are required and we'll be there.We are very very close!

Fergie knows it(and he aint daft) and thats why he has turned his hate towards us more this season..hes worried about what Rafa is doing!
Oh and BTW..we can still win it..long shot now but ya never know!

by **Sabre** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:41 pm

Thanks Judge for the thread, because I had some interest to ask the same question. Perhaps including the wage raises you are biasing a bit the question because I think nobody (not even me) would advocate for that when he's got plenty of money in his last contract. However months back I had this interest to know the level of trust, and so have now.

I voted eight, not because I believe the Holy trinity can be ordered numerically, but as a way to measure my trust from 1 to 10.

I have increased a point since the last faith-o-meter.

Pretty much the spirit I have is Gerrard's, we're on the good way, but always with a willingness to improve what can be improvable.

by **bigmick** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:53 pm

Number 9 wrote:Rafa has done very little wrong this year!
Im not making excuses but if Torres and Gerrard had stayed fit we would have won the League..simple!
They are crucial to us and because of injuries have only started 11(i think it is) games together in the League..thats way less than a 3rd!

Our problem does not lie with the manager,it lies with lack of depth! UTD can suffer injuries to key players and have the luxury of bringing in players as good or very close to anyone(probably apart from Ronaldo)
I suppose folk could argue that its Rafas fault that we do not have these luxuries and they may have a case.
Bottom line is our squad is still way to big and we still lack a bit of quality cover.
A lot of deadwood needs to go and a few astute signings are required and we'll be there.We are very very close!

Fergie knows it(and he aint daft) and thats why he has turned his hate towards us more this season..hes worried about what Rafa is doing!
Oh and BTW..we can still win it..long shot now but ya never know!

Good post that and I agree with much of it. Definately the injuries to Torres in particular have been felt, we are a much more potent attacking force when he plays. Gerrard has played much of the season so I think we'd be a bit moany to include him.

I couldn't though in all honesty buy that as the main "excuse" if we don't win it. Particularly not when we spent 20 million quid on a player to cover for such an eventuality eight months ago, but then when we got him decided we didn't actually want him anymore. Also in fairness all teams have had injuries, and I think you could probably make the case that ours have been the least of the big four. There is though the point as you say that we have less cover quality wise despite having legions of "options" and "possibilites" in reserve.

I also agree that Rafa has done his job well this season. Though they are basically a poor team against decent opposition, the mauling of Real Madrid appears to have been the pivotal moment, the moment when we added belief to our other attributes. The team is now playing as well as it has for 20 seasons I think, and the manager deserves lots of credit for that. There have been mistakes though, Keanegate, taking Torres and Gerrard off once Wigan equalised in the league, settling for a point at Highbury when a stricken Arsenal were reduced to ten men, setting up far too defensively at Home for the first 2/3 of the campaign, having little flirtations with silliness of selection (Martin Skyrtel at right back anyone) etc etc.

Hopefully going forward though we can continue in the vein we currently are in, contnue to take heed of the lessons we've learned and continue to improve. I think we'll need to, that's the thing as I think we've been granted a once in a lifetime collusion of events this term.

You're right about Fergie too. He knows that we've got the best striker in the league, the best off the striker player in the league, the best passer in the league, one of if not the best defensive holder in the league, the best goalkeeper in the league etc etc and that we are a threat. Not only all of that, we are now not shooting ourselves in the foot every week (because lets not forget we've had all those players for a couple of seasons now) we are becoming very dangerous. He's right to worry about us alone this season because Arsenal and Chelsea have been a shambles. Hopefully that's the case next season too.

by **Sabre** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:26 pm

Barry is spot on with the lack of depth.

Surprisingly Ferguson has granted an interview to the Spanish main paper, El Pais. It's not like being interviewed by Marca, like, it's more serious.

Ferguson has spoken quite contundently and has said that only Barcelona can compete with the ENglish teams.

But he has said an interesting phrase, of course the interview is in Spanish, and you wonder how was translated but he said that "My rotations work because when I want to rest somebody I can trust on Scholes and Berbatov". Which leads to Barry's point, quality depth.

I never understand the fellow reds that want to get rid of Mascherano and/or Alonso because even if you don't want them as an axis, you need them in the team. There will always exist a fúcking Barton, or a fúcking yellow card accumulation, and a fúcking international game, so you need that depth if you're going to compete with the best teams of Europe for everything.

The most funny part of the interview is at the end, when he shares a trick he has "I like the other manager doing the first sub, so I can see him coming" and then he was asked "But Mourinho does make subs in the half time"

Whiskey nose's answer: That's because he's a pipiolo, that's something you learn with age.

Pipiolo: Whatever word you use for clueless-naive-and young all together

by **Effes** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:36 pm

Voted 7 - been some great results this season, but the draws at home and the team selection for Boro
away still leaves me with some doubts.

by **DrPepe** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:54 pm

buying keane appears to have been a big mistake, selling him quite the opposite...

with keane:23 games/48 points= 2.09pt/game (13W, 9D, 1L)
without : 12 games/29 points= 2.42pt/game (9W, 2D, 1L)

a whopping 1/3 of a point per game increase.

he must have been seriously disruptive

by **NANNY RED** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:56 pm

Ive voted hes great, but i wouldnt give him a pay rise, he earns enough to be just great :nod

If we win the league ill change that to he Jesus, :nod

by **Sabre** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:16 pm

The idea of the original Faithometer was to measure the different levels of trust/ lack of trust of the people, to show it's not black and white always.

And also to see the faith parameter in time.

It seems so far that Judge's faithometer says Rafa has got back some trust out of newkitters, because there are few 5 and 4s.

I think it's natural. Many wanted the league. When we seemed to be out of it, many saw that goal dispelled. For many it may have been another season without fighting for the title til the end, hence the doubts.

The last weeks have been a confirmation that this has been a title race, so that feeling of 2 months ago of not fighting for the league increases the faith.

by **SundanceKid** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:05 am

I'm excited for the new season, just wish it would come already. I know Rafa's is gonna bring the heat in the transfer market, and I know the lads are confident that the title will be ours next season. I can't wait!

by **Scottbot** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:46 am

I'm not sure if he's been on and voted yet but I'd guess Stevie.G would give the gaffa a pretty score on the raffameter right now. i don't think i've ever heard Stevie talk about the manager in such a positive way before, not even in his autobiography. It's very encouraging to read about the level of team spirit and togetherness in the squad at the moment, an of course it's been very obvious on the pitch the last couple of months as well. We are as cohesive a unit as i've seen from us in many a year and that certainly bodes well for next season because it isn't something you can buy or manufacture overnight.

I agree with Barry, clear some deadwood and then we need 3 very astute purchases and we could well be there next season. They need to be bang on the money though.

GERRARD PRAISES RAFA MAN-MANAGEMENT
Jimmy Rice 07 May 2009
Steven Gerrard has praised Rafa Benitez's man-management, claiming it is a pleasure to play in the current Liverpool team.
The skipper believes his Spanish boss has taken the Reds to new heights this term by creating a true team ethic down at Melwood and Anfield.

Gerrard told LFC Magazine: "It is an absolute pleasure to play in this Liverpool team - I really mean that.

"We've got world-class players, we've turned in some fantastic displays of attacking football and some really, really solid defensive performances.

"There are no stars in this team, or no one with any airs or graces. We're one unit, we work hard for each other and we all pull in the same direction.

"We've got absolutely everything you need to be successful at the very highest level.

"We've got players making an impact from the start and boys coming off the bench and affecting the game. I've got to pay tribute to the manager because it's difficult for him picking only 11 players for the starting line-up.

"Keeping the lads on the bench and those who have missed out on the squad in the frame of mind to make a significant contribution is a difficult task, but Rafa's been able to do that this season.

"That's not an easy balancing act but he manages it brilliantly. He and his coaches keep everyone hungry and ready when they've been needed. As a player now you can't be selfish. Certainly, you can't be selfish at Liverpool.

"It's a squad game, and if you're not in the starting line-up you can't be thinking, 'I'm giving in'."

Gerrard added: "They've instilled this winning mentality in us. It's simple really - it's been drummed into us since the boss came to the club.

"No matter how the game's going, no matter what the scoreline is, or no matter how you might be playing personally, you keep doing the right things all the time and keep going until the end."

Liverpool finished 11 points behind United last term but, with just three games to go this time around, that gap has been reduced to just three.

Despite the improvement, Gerrard has identified areas to be addressed - including slashing this season's haul of seven home draws.

"If we are to go on to win the league this season there are a few lessons we can learn to take into the next year," he added.

"If we don't, there will still be things we can improve to make sure we are a better team next season. We have to use this one to our benefit, no matter what happens in the future.

"For example, there have been too many draws at Anfield for our liking.

"We are a great side away from home. We're strong, can be physical, don't lose too many goals and are dangerous opponents for anyone. It's difficult sometimes when you come up against these teams who arrive at Anfield with virtually every player behind the ball.

"No one comes to play attacking football because they respect what we can do and know they're going to be picked off and destroyed.

"We need to be more ruthless at home. It would certainly have helped us out this season. There are points there that, if we had taken them, we would be top with three games to go.

"But we'll keep going until the end. We won't surrender when we're so close. Winning the title with this club would mean the world to me."

Gerrard admits to feelings of 'anger' in previous campaigns when Liverpool have been out of the race by Christmas. Such memories have acted as extra motivation this time around.

"I'm not going to lie," the Huyton-born midfielder added. "Being out of the title race in January and being 30 points behind the leaders is frustrating for me.

"If being in that position doesn't frustrate you, then you're not the player for me. There's something wrong with you. But I think that anger and those feelings have helped me, certainly, and the others to get much closer to it this season.

"We have to be proud of our achievements this season, whatever happens.

"If United close it out then we're going to have a right good go over the next three, four or five years and I believe we're too good not to win it.

"I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that this team will win the Premier League trophy. I believe I'll get my hands on it."

by **aCe'** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:03 am

its a 5 for me... which is an improvement on the 3 he got earlier on...
its all about how we go about our play next season for me because theres very little we can now do to determine where we stand in the league... Obviously the levels of trust as some have put it are going to change depending on the results but id rather try to focus on thhe e bigger picture here... we lost a good lead and failed to capitalize on a good (wouldn't go as far as saying a once in a blue moon) opportunity to win the league with the other big sides stumbling early on... He made a total mess of a fair few things early on (the keane thing, the ferguson rant, all the draws, and some of the selections) but he managed to somewhat turn things around of late and all credit where its due ... a case of it being a little too late though im afraid...

Its all about next season for me from here on... I think its very hard to predict what Rafa will do in the summer (sissoko? keane? mess with a winning formation? sell finnan? sell Hyypia?!) but whatever it is that he decides to do i just hope it doesnt cost us much early on and hopefully he would have learned from the same mistakes that we've been doing for the past 3 years... if anything the way we've been playing in recent weeks or dare i even say the last couple of months or so has got me pretty excited about the way we are going to approach next seasons fixtures.. hopefully Rafa's attitude and adjusted attacking mentality will be carried on to next season and with the right transfers and as little messing around with the current squad/lineup/formation.. i can see us challenging seriously at more than one front...

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