Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:15 pm

s@int wrote:To be fair, Skrtel did well at full back in practice......... Kuyt didn't get past him once

Nasty but quite funny. In all seriousness though, you make a vaild point. This "he did well in training" or "we were watching him in training and he was tired" stuff is utter b0ll0cks IMHO.

If you've got absolutely nobody else could play there, fair enough you have to gamble, you try em out in training and away you go. If you've got someone who can play there capably though, there's no need.

Earlier this season when Dossena was coming to terms with the Premiership (yes I know) and Aurelio was injured, I advocated giving Agger a go there. Double standards? Well slightly, but I do belive the situation was different. Firstly we were talking about Dossena (nuff said) and secondly Agger wasn't in the team at all. It was a way of getting one of our better players onto the pitch. That today though was hard to fathom.

I'm also surprised from one of Sabre's post on another thread where he alluded to the selection at Pompey "working". Aurelio did well there in midfield, but given we were 2-1 down with four minutes left, I wouldn't count is as being a rip-roaring success myself. Had we scored 3 in the last 5 minutes at Boro, would that selection have worked?

by **Sabre** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:20 pm

Yes that one worked, and this hasn't worked.

That day worked, because it was one of the few answers to exceptional injury and absence situation and your team still played some football.

The difference between the football at Pompey and our football today is evident.

So if you admit that Aurelio did well, his interactions with the surrounding worked, and plus you win the game, yes, you can say it worked.

If you see a broken team, it was an awful game, the opposition insisted and succeeded from the left, then, yes, you can say that selection hasn't worked.

I know that there's a school of thought up there that by definition, every change we don't understand is wrong. But for me some decissions are better than others. And some options work better than others.

Today it didn't work. In Pompey did.

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:32 pm

I think it was a compound problem in that the team in general didn't much look up for it today. We seemed flat from the beginning.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pm

JoeTerp wrote:I think it was a compound problem in that the team in general didn't much look up for it today. We seemed flat from the beginning.

They were probably all still upset from Parry getting the push Joe. There is always a way to blame Parry if we look hard enough

by **teamleader1** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:25 pm

The only thing that makes any sense is that Yossi was being rested for the first game of next season when he can cover the left back spot as Fabio will be getting rested for the easter period

ps
Wont fergie get a surprise when all his players just fall in a heap shattered after playing all them games!

NOT!

by **Big Niall** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:37 pm

as a former star centre back on my local team i am the expert

I think agger is our best centre bank and the only one comfortable on the ball. It is skrtel vs carra for the other spot. I don't think carra being scouse or a fan favourite should give him an edge. the better one should get the spot.

by **teamleader1** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:47 pm

Big Niall wrote:as a former star centre back on my local team i am the expert

I think agger is our best centre bank and the only one comfortable on the ball. It is skrtel vs carra for the other spot. I don't think carra being scouse or a fan favourite should give him an edge. the better one should get the spot.

I think Skrtle & Agger are our best pairing, that said I would leave Carra as first choice along side Agger for the rest of the season for his euro experience
We MUST start next pre season with Agger & Skrtle as first choice

But we wont :sniffle

by **Owzat** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:53 am

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:To me it's selections like this one which are the problems I have with "styling" perfectly illustrated. Obviously Arbeloa is injured, and no doubt Deggan is as well, so we play Carra there right, since he's played there many times for us before?

Er, no actually. We decide to move Skyrtel out there for his debut in the right back slot in a Liverpool shirt. I'm guessing the reason was because Skyrtel has more pace than carra, and would be better suited to playing against Downing? Now I haven't seen the game, but by all accounts it didn't really work. I must confess here as well that as I never said it before the match, I am speaking after the event here. I would though ask people to take it on trust, that had I been here before the match and someone told me that Skyrtel was going to be playing right back, I would have said it was ridiculous.

Too clever by half for me. Needless, silly tinkering. It's not FIFA foorball manager 07/08, it's real life. Benayoun and Riera don't need to rest because they played on Wednesday, and Stuart Downing isn't good enough to warrant completely changing your set up. When will we ever learn, or more to the point, will we ever learn?

One other question that might be asked mate. It was obvious from early on that it wasn't working. Why wait till we are 2-0 down and the famous 60 minute mark has passed before doing something about it? Surely it would have been much simpler to pass a message to Carra and Skrtel to swop places.

And why start El Zhar for the first time ever? Did Rafa seriously underestimate Boro or is he so wrapped up in "Rafa is always right" that he thinks he can do what the eff he pleases?

Gaffer Gaffes vs Boro

- Skrtel at RB
- El Zhar starting for first time ever
- Benayoun scores against Real, benched for his sins
- Babel starting
- no sub until 68th minute/0-2 down
- DM left on despite having no real influence on the scoreline

I'm sure someone could add more, but most of those aren't first time offences in the sense they are typical Rafa rather than who it involved ie might be the first time Skrtel played RB, not the first time Rafa's played someone out of position.

I am growing in my conviction Rafa wrote the league off some time ago, regardless anything he says to the press. I am also doubting his honesty more and more.

by **fivecups** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:34 am

bigmick wrote:To me it's selections like this one which are the problems I have with "styling" perfectly illustrated. Obviously Arbeloa is injured, and no doubt Deggan is as well, so we play Carra there right, since he's played there many times for us before?

Er, no actually. We decide to move Skyrtel out there for his debut in the right back slot in a Liverpool shirt. I'm guessing the reason was because Skyrtel has more pace than carra, and would be better suited to playing against Downing? Now I haven't seen the game, but by all accounts it didn't really work. I must confess here as well that as I never said it before the match, I am speaking after the event here. I would though ask people to take it on trust, that had I been here before the match and someone told me that Skyrtel was going to be playing right back, I would have said it was ridiculous.

Too clever by half for me. Needless, silly tinkering. It's not FIFA foorball manager 07/08, it's real life. Benayoun and Riera don't need to rest because they played on Wednesday, and Stuart Downing isn't good enough to warrant completely changing your set up. When will we ever learn, or more to the point, will we ever learn?

I remain resolute in my belief that Rafa isn't crazy and also that he was genuinely trying to win the match. He picked the team that he thought had the best chance of winning yesterday's match keeping Tuesday's game against Sunderland in mind. We all know his management style by now - when he's faced with 3 games in 7 days he's going to rotate players, even players who are in form. As I've said before he's NEVER going to be a manager who plays the same eleven every game. He often seems to feel a fit, fresh player is a better choice than a slightly tired one in good form. I'm not saying I agree with this but I think it's Rafa's management style and I don't think it will change.

I think his selection yesterday was just wrong. Starting El Zhar was too big a gamble - he had to play Yossi - he's been excellent lately.

Regarding playing Skrtel at right back - I agree with Mick that Rafa was trying to control Downing (far and away their best player) but it was horrible. After 10 minutes it was obvious that Skrtel was incapable of playing on the right - and Middlesborough knew it as much as anyone. Maybe Carra wouldn't have been that much better but he has experience in that position and as Saint said Rafa should have swapped them early in the match. Skrtel got murdered.

Also, it took Rafa far too long to make changes yesterday when it became clear how bad we were, and we were really awful, - the wide men should have come off early in the second half.

It really was our worst performance of the season by far - very discouraging in a match of such importance.

by **Bam** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:38 am

fivecups wrote:
bigmick wrote:To me it's selections like this one which are the problems I have with "styling" perfectly illustrated. Obviously Arbeloa is injured, and no doubt Deggan is as well, so we play Carra there right, since he's played there many times for us before?

Er, no actually. We decide to move Skyrtel out there for his debut in the right back slot in a Liverpool shirt. I'm guessing the reason was because Skyrtel has more pace than carra, and would be better suited to playing against Downing? Now I haven't seen the game, but by all accounts it didn't really work. I must confess here as well that as I never said it before the match, I am speaking after the event here. I would though ask people to take it on trust, that had I been here before the match and someone told me that Skyrtel was going to be playing right back, I would have said it was ridiculous.

Too clever by half for me. Needless, silly tinkering. It's not FIFA foorball manager 07/08, it's real life. Benayoun and Riera don't need to rest because they played on Wednesday, and Stuart Downing isn't good enough to warrant completely changing your set up. When will we ever learn, or more to the point, will we ever learn?

I remain resolute in my belief that Rafa isn't crazy and also that he was genuinely trying to win the match. He picked the team that he thought had the best chance of winning yesterday's match keeping Tuesday's game against Sunderland in mind. We all know his management style by now - when he's faced with 3 games in 7 days he's going to rotate players, even players who are in form. As I've said before he's NEVER going to be a manager who plays the same eleven every game. He often seems to feel a fit, fresh player is a better choice than a slightly tired one in good form. I'm not saying I agree with this but I think it's Rafa's management style and I don't think it will change.

I think his selection yesterday was just wrong. Starting El Zhar was too big a gamble - he had to play Yossi - he's been excellent lately.

Regarding playing Skrtel at right back - I agree with Mick that Rafa was trying to control Downing (far and away their best player) but it was horrible. After 10 minutes it was obvious that Skrtel was incapable of playing on the right - and Middlesborough knew it as much as anyone. Maybe Carra wouldn't have been that much better but he has experience in that position and as Saint said Rafa should have swapped them early in the match. Skrtel got murdered.

Also, it took Rafa far too long to make changes yesterday when it became clear how bad we were, and we were really awful, - the wide men should have come off early in the second half.

It really was our worst performance of the season by far - very discouraging in a match of such importance.

Good post fivecups.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:59 am

Lets get to the root cause of playing skertel at RB..... yeah thats it, we don't have any credible RB apart from arbeloa.

Instead of getting a replacement for Finnan (Not counting Degen...because of the word "worthy") he used the whole summer to concentrate on Barry. Benitez is just not able to multi-task. He can only concentrate on one stuff at a time.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:27 pm

I would have liked to have seen young Darby play yesterday. Maybe we might get to see a few of the kids in the league now that the title is gone? Insua needs to play, Spearing deserves a game or two and i'd love to see how Pachecho does in that deep lying role behind the front-man.

by **fivecups** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:21 pm

The_Rock wrote:Lets get to the root cause of playing skertel at RB..... yeah thats it, we don't have any credible RB apart from arbeloa.

Instead of getting a replacement for Finnan (Not counting Degen...because of the word "worthy") he used the whole summer to concentrate on Barry. Benitez is just not able to multi-task. He can only concentrate on one stuff at a time.

Agreed. At the start of the season the plan was that Degen would be right back cover - but he was known to have multiple injuries before he came - hasn't worked at all. Failing that Carra was the backup.

You could say it was a similar story with the strikers with Torres injured.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:44 pm

Scottbot wrote:I would have liked to have seen young Darby play yesterday. Maybe we might get to see a few of the kids in the league now that the title is gone? Insua needs to play, Spearing deserves a game or two and i'd love to see how Pachecho does in that deep lying role behind the front-man.

Totaly agree on the Darby shout Scott im a big fan of the lad.

Dunno about Spearing though i really cant see him cutting it in the first team.

by **Big Niall** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:15 pm

Scottbot wrote:I would have liked to have seen young Darby play yesterday. Maybe we might get to see a few of the kids in the league now that the title is gone? Insua needs to play, Spearing deserves a game or two and i'd love to see how Pachecho does in that deep lying role behind the front-man.

i think young players are better off at manure or arsenal where they get some gains.

think about it, five years and not one player has come through to be a regular.

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