Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

We bought Keane £20million this season

Last season we bought Torres for anything up to £27million and Masch £17million, Babel £11million

Thats not chickenfeed mate, we have spent over £100million in the past two seasons and what progress have we made ?

[bigmick]

Didn't Carra play as a right-back for a season or two?

He did, and he's played there a few times this season with varying degrees of success. That was why I posted the original question in the thread starter. Why play Martin Skyrtel there, when Carragher CAN play there, albeit that's it's not his best position?

Once again, what did you think fo the the decision to play Skyrtel there as opposed to Carragher, inspiration or insanity?

As for the "better backing", well we have spent 200 million quid in five seasons. I suppose if we'd spent 600 million then we might reasonably expect to have even better players than we've got I'll concede that. It is quite a lot of money though is 200 million, and for that, I'd expect to have not just a decent right back (which we've got to be honest) but also one or two players who are in behind him.

Same as Riera, I'd expect to have a sensible alternative left midfielder. I know we can puish our best left full back forward to play there if needs be, or we can play a failed centre forward there if we're really desperate, or a little bloke who nobody knows his best spot (although we do know it ain't left midfield) there, as long as he hasn't scored a goal in the previous game obviously, but what about a reserve left midfielder?

Strikers, as we are now discovering to our cost, get injured sometimes. It helps if you've got more than one. We did have, but we sold him without bringing in a replacement 

As you say, "taking the p!ss", "insane" is absolutely on the money. After five years and 200 million quid spent, we've only got one viable option as a striker.

You've said many times over the years "I don't fecking believe this place sometimes" and listening to how some people go on, I couldn't agree more.

No, mick. Better backing as in going in for the kill and getting the main target. If Chelsea or any other club are sniffing about, we get in first, slap down a big f*ck off sum, and get our man. When's the last time Liverpool FC made a statement like that? I can't remember...like ever.

Still doesn't really answer the question of the thread though does it? Was playing Skyrtel at right back in preference to Carra, inspiration or insanity?

[Emerald Red]

Didn't Carra play as a right-back for a season or two?

He did, and he's played there a few times this season with varying degrees of success. That was why I posted the original question in the thread starter. Why play Martin Skyrtel there, when Carragher CAN play there, albeit that's it's not his best position?

Once again, what did you think fo the the decision to play Skyrtel there as opposed to Carragher, inspiration or insanity?

As for the "better backing", well we have spent 200 million quid in five seasons. I suppose if we'd spent 600 million then we might reasonably expect to have even better players than we've got I'll concede that. It is quite a lot of money though is 200 million, and for that, I'd expect to have not just a decent right back (which we've got to be honest) but also one or two players who are in behind him.

Same as Riera, I'd expect to have a sensible alternative left midfielder. I know we can puish our best left full back forward to play there if needs be, or we can play a failed centre forward there if we're really desperate, or a little bloke who nobody knows his best spot (although we do know it ain't left midfield) there, as long as he hasn't scored a goal in the previous game obviously, but what about a reserve left midfielder?

Strikers, as we are now discovering to our cost, get injured sometimes. It helps if you've got more than one. We did have, but we sold him without bringing in a replacement 

As you say, "taking the p!ss", "insane" is absolutely on the money. After five years and 200 million quid spent, we've only got one viable option as a striker.

You've said many times over the years "I don't fecking believe this place sometimes" and listening to how some people go on, I couldn't agree more.

No, mick. Better backing as in going in for the kill and getting the main target. If Chelsea or any other club are sniffing about, we get in first, slap down a big f*ck off sum, and get our man. When's the last time Liverpool FC made a statement like that? I can't remember...like ever.

Still doesn't really answer the question of the thread though does it? Was playing Skyrtel at right back in preference to Carra, inspiration or insanity?

I don't know, Mick. I'm not that qualified to answer that to be honest. To tell you the truth, if Skertle's job was to just be solid and protect that area of the pitch, then most defenders regardless of their natural position should be able to do that job effectively. It's the overlapping and making runs from the back that a proper full-back's job is, as well as protecting the line. Was it inspiration? No. Most likely improvisation, though. Hyypia has played on the left side if I remember. I didn't hear too many complaints, as has Agger. Anyway, what is insanity? It's not exactly as if he put Torres in nets. That would be insanity.

[bigmick]

I don't know, Mick. I'm not that qualified to answer that to be honest. To tell you the truth, if Skertle's job was to just be solid and protect that area of the pitch, then most defenders regardless of their natural position should be able to do that job effectively. It's the overlapping and making runs from the back that a proper full-back's job is, as well as protecting the line.

Ah well we'll have to agree to differ on what a full backs job is, what it entails and all that. No point in getting involved in a technical discaussion about it though, no problem.

[Emerald Red]

We bought Keane £20million this season

Last season we bought Torres for anything up to £27million and Masch £17million, Babel £11million

Thats not chickenfeed mate, we have spent over £100million in the past two seasons and what progress have we made ?

Yeah, we did get Keane for 20 million, which turned out to be a bit of a joke and a real eyebrow raiser. I know it stunned me to find out he cost that much. Did Rafa want him for that price, or at all? I don't think so IMO, and someone had to pay the penalty for it. Unfortunately it was Parry, but if you f*ck up that bad in business, head's roll. We got that money back anyway, although in saying that, how much would a David Villa or an Aguero have cost us? A tad more than that, I suspect. Our other signings that you mentioned have all turned out to be value for money, apart from Babel of course. Nothing to scoff at there. We paid quality for quality, though Torres was nowhere near the purported 27 million pound estimate that the press loved to bang on about. Was more like 18 with add-ons. Regardless, from what I've heard, it was Eto'o and not Torres that Benitez wanted. We got Torres, and thankfully that worked out. But you see, any signing we've spent over 18 million on (three players I believe) have been a relative success, bar Robbie Keane, and again his signing was questionable to begin with. We've made most of that back, so no point crying over split milk. People keep banging on about this 200 million spent. But when you really do think about it, that has been 200 million spread out over the course of 5 years, with over 50 or more players brought in, and as many shipped out. I can't be sure of the exact numbers, but there was a lot. Considering you'd have to spend at least over 25 million for a David Villa, a Dani Alves etc etc, and over 15 million on other quality players to fill either the full back positions or the wings, then you're looking to spend at least half of that in one summer to plug the gaps with quality, quality that we need. When has a Liverpool manager ever had that amount to spend in one lump sum during a summer of negotiations when the likes of Chelsea could get in and out-bid you on any of your primary targets should you give them a sniff? We can't compete. It's as simple as that. Until we get a serious cash injection, look forward to another 5 years with no title challenge.

[account deleted by request]

We bought Keane £20million this season

Last season we bought Torres for anything up to £27million and Masch £17million, Babel £11million

Thats not chickenfeed mate, we have spent over £100million in the past two seasons and what progress have we made ?

Yeah, we did get Keane for 20 million, which turned out to be a bit of a joke and a real eyebrow raiser. I know it stunned me to find out he cost that much. Did Rafa want him for that price, or at all? I don't think so IMO, and someone had to pay the penalty for it. Unfortunately it was Parry, but if you f*ck up that bad in business, head's roll. We got that money back anyway, although in saying that, how much would a David Villa or an Aguero have cost us? A tad more than that, I suspect. Our other signings that you mentioned have all turned out to be value for money, apart from Babel of course. Nothing to scoff at there. We paid quality for quality, though Torres was nowhere near the purported 27 million pound estimate that the press loved to bang on about. Was more like 18 with add-ons. Regardless, from what I've heard, it was Eto'o and not Torres that Benitez wanted. We got Torres, and thankfully that worked out. But you see, any signing we've spent over 18 million on (three players I believe) have been a relative success, bar Robbie Keane, and again his signing was questionable to begin with. We've made most of that back, so no point crying over split milk. People keep banging on about this 200 million spent. But when you really do think about it, that has been 200 million spread out over the course of 5 years, with over 50 or more players brought in, and as many shipped out. I can't be sure of the exact numbers, but there was a lot. Considering you'd have to spend at least over 25 million for a David Villa, a Dani Alves etc etc, and over 15 million on other quality players to fill either the full back positions or the wings, then you're looking to spend at least half of that in one summer to plug the gaps with quality, quality that we need. When has a Liverpool manager ever had that amount to spend in one lump sum during a summer of negotiations when the likes of Chelsea could get in and out-bid you on any of your primary targets should you give them a sniff? We can't compete. It's as simple as that. Until we get a serious cash injection, look forward to another 5 years with no title challenge.

Parry wasn't moved on for signing Keane (wherever did you get that idea from ?) He was moved on because he couldn't bring in buyers for the club.

As for Keane, great idea to sell him leaving us without a reputable striker when Torres was injured.

Danny Alves, deal done and dusted according to Parry for £10million, RAFA said he didn't want to pay so much for him.

Eto'o was first on Rafa's list from what I heard too mate as a p/x with Alonso...... he can't seem to shake Alonso off can he?

We have outspent the mancs during Rafa's term. we outspent them before his term and you still want more! Its no wonder the club is nearly bankrupt and in debt up to its eyes.

Somewhere along the line you have to say enough is enough, we have spent £200million in the last few years and got no nearer the title. Maybe we need a manager who can do more with less? Either that or like you say just admit that under Rafa we are not going to win it in the next five years either.

[Sir Roger]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

[sgs]

The decision not to deploy Jamie Carragher at right back was a result of fatigue, as Benitez explained: "(Jamie) Carragher told me he had heavy legs and so, as a centre-back, he could run less. At right-back normally you run more, so he played at centre-half. That was the idea."

[quote]

[Sabre]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

I'd happily have Crouch. He's a player I rate.

I've said in this forum I think Keane is a quality player. I'm gutted he has left.

But in  Crouch case, wasn't the player who preffered to play regularly and wasn't happy with being back-up?

On Keane, don't ask me about what happened (I haven't a clue) but the player seemed like not being comfortable with his role on the club.

So yes, it's a shame we lost Crouch and Keane (I don't care Bellamy), but must we relate these two departures with the personality of the manager?

I'd relate it to the ambition that proven premier and international players have, and them not being able to accept a secondary role behind Torres.

[Sir Roger]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

I'd happily have Crouch. He's a player I rate.

I've said in this forum I think Keane is a quality player. I'm gutted he has left.

But in  Crouch case, wasn't the player who preffered to play regularly and wasn't happy with being back-up?

On Keane, don't ask me about what happened (I haven't a clue) but the player seemed like not being comfortable with his role on the club.

So yes, it's a shame we lost Crouch and Keane (I don't care Bellamy), but must we relate these two departures with the personality of the manager?

I'd relate it to the ambition that proven premier and international players have, and them not being able to accept a secondary role behind Torres.

How lucky are we that babel, kuyt and Ngog dont mind playing second fiddle?

[JC_81]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

Not a very sensible way to look at it imo.  Crouch, Bellamy and Keane are all good players, but they're not great players, none of them would be in our strongest XI even now, and crucially all of them rate themselves higher than they probably should, meaning none of them are happy to spend a lot of time on the bench.  None of them would (or did) stay here for any length of time when they weren't getting enough minutes.  Apart from the timing of getting rid of Keane, getting rid of them all was probably the right thing to do.

[Sir Roger]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

Not a very sensible way to look at it imo.  Crouch, Bellamy and Keane are all good players, but they're not great players, none of them would be in our strongest XI even now, and crucially all of them rate themselves higher than they probably should, meaning none of them are happy to spend a lot of time on the bench.  None of them would (or did) stay here for any length of time when they weren't getting enough minutes.  Apart from the timing of getting rid of Keane, getting rid of them all was probably the right thing to do.

I disagree
I think it is very sensible to point out that we are knackered without Torres
Due to the getting rid of Keane specifically we now only have the chuckle brothers plus one as our strike force.
I would like you to explain how getting rid of one of the best forwards in the prem was the right thing to do?

[JC_81]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

Not a very sensible way to look at it imo.  Crouch, Bellamy and Keane are all good players, but they're not great players, none of them would be in our strongest XI even now, and crucially all of them rate themselves higher than they probably should, meaning none of them are happy to spend a lot of time on the bench.  None of them would (or did) stay here for any length of time when they weren't getting enough minutes.  Apart from the timing of getting rid of Keane, getting rid of them all was probably the right thing to do.

I disagree
I think it is very sensible to point out that we are knackered without Torres
Due to the getting rid of Keane specifically we now only have the chuckle brothers plus one as our strike force.
I would like you to explain how getting rid of one of the best forwards in the prem was the right thing to do?

I would like you to explain how comparing Bellamy and Crouch (two players who wanted to leave due to lack of game time) to Ngog, Kuyt or Babel is helpful?

[Sabre]

While I disagree that Crouch and Keane's departure have anything to do with Rafa's personality, I think it's the task of the manager to fill the gaps they leave in the squad.

And, if I have to be honest, NGog and Babel doesn't seem to be better options than the above mentioned. I'd say as much they don't get even close. We should have bought another striker even if Keane had stayed.

Of course, to bring new players then Parry does enter the equation, and we'll see if Rafa stays how important was the Parry effect in our transfer windows.

So yes, that's one of the question marks I have on Rafa, he doesn't only have good points.

[account deleted by request]

What kind of mentality must someone have to get rid of Bellamy, Crouch and Keane, all proven premier and international strikers, to have kuyt, babel and Ngog as back up strikers when Torres is injured?

Not a very sensible way to look at it imo.  Crouch, Bellamy and Keane are all good players, but they're not great players, none of them would be in our strongest XI even now, and crucially all of them rate themselves higher than they probably should, meaning none of them are happy to spend a lot of time on the bench.  None of them would (or did) stay here for any length of time when they weren't getting enough minutes.  Apart from the timing of getting rid of Keane, getting rid of them all was probably the right thing to do.

But don't you think that when the 4-2-3-1 formation was brought in it only worked because of the special talents of Gerrard and Torres. Surely a manager has to make some concession to the fact that one or both of them might get injured or need a rest........ and make some contingency plans accordingly. e.g. a plan B would have been nice.

At least while we had Keane we could play two up front and have some hope. Playing Kuyt as the lone rangerstriker has never worked and was never likely to.

The treatment Crouch received in his last year at the club, I don't think anyone could be surprised if he wanted to leave. From leaving him on the bench for 85 mins in the CL final to rotating him out of form and then never using him, it was hardly surprising when he decided to go.