Liverpool FC Forum

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:26 pm

No enough "pacy" players on the flanks....just look at our flank players on saturday...

1)Carra
2)Auerlio
3)Riera
4)Benayoun

and i notice kuyt was also running all over to the right flank...thus bring down the "average pace" of the flank players even more ...

At least Riera can take on players and is a pretty smart footballer...so he can make do without pace. But if the other players in the team don't take on players...don't run into players....keep playing hospital balls (lucas)...what can Riera do ?

Benitez had 5 years to fix the wing problems but he when he plays Kuyt and benayoun on the wing....u have to question his competancy....

I am not saying pace is everything...but we have to have balance in the team.. Just think we have to many players who are not mobile enough or slow in our team.

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:30 pm

s@int wrote:
Judge wrote:
s@int wrote:Its creativity not brawn that you need against the 10 men behind the ball sides.
We need a new Dalglish or Beardsley ...... someone like Diego or even Aguero or Arshavin.

how about KEANE?

As I said when he first came, Keane IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN A CREATIVE SECOND STRIKER. He is a striker that likes to run from deep, he has a few flicks and tricks, but is not an incisive passer of the ball.

I still think Keane is a good striker, but he is not what Liverpool required at all. I would rather they had gone for a target man than a player who is neither one or the other.

s@int its not often i disagree with you on footy matters

but you are wrong wrong wrong mate

ive watced 14 different vids of keane when he played with berbatov, and what ive seen makes a mockery of what you have just said.

there is more to keane that what you think mate.

thats my version of constructive criticism

by **lewerty** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:34 pm

torres has just come back from injury u would be moaning again if he got injured and was out for another 2 months

by **andy_g** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:40 pm

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:43 pm

s@int its not often i disagree with you on footy matters

but you are wrong wrong wrong mate

ive watced 14 different vids of keane when he played with berbatov, and what ive seen makes a mockery of what you have just said.

there is more to keane that what you think mate.

thats my version of constructive criticism

A creative second striker gets about 10 to 15 assists a season, in his last TWO seasons at Spurs Keane managed 7......3.5 a season. Rooney for example got 21 in his last two seasons, Fabrigas got 28.....14 a season.

Diego 2007/8 played 30 goals 13 assists 10
Diego 2006/7 played 33 goals 13 assists 13

Thats my version of replying with facts

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:00 pm

sorry mate, his assists were more than that, however, they may not have resulted in goals but they certainly created the scoring chance

scoring chance assists much higher

you dont give keane enough credit

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:12 pm

I give Keane more than enough credit, but he is NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN A CREATIVE SECOND STRIKER. Just as Torres is not a full back. You wouldn't expect Torres to have as high a tackle success as Arbeloa...... similarly you wouldn't expect Keane to have a similar number of assists to a Diego or a Rooney.

That doesn't mean Keane is not a good player...... just that he isn't what a few people on here seem to think he is.

by **Zidane** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:14 pm

We can't break teams down that well because we're too direct there isn't any creative movement from the majority of the players aside from Stevie, Nando, and Keane the rest of our players lack intelligence or something when it comes to making a run into dangerous positions. Xabi can manage a game but he can't really break a team open when most of the team kinda stands around waiting for a pass only to pass it back out again. This is just our style though, heavily organized but not enough movement.

by **lakes10** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:30 pm

I think you have made me think again.

you might be right and Rafa is over analyzing lower teams. if he just lets our team play we might do better.

as for "why can we not beat 10 men" well i think its something that Liverpool have always found it hard to do, not just under Rafa.

we try to play football and when they go down to 10 men wil still try the same instead of packing a area of the field and making the most of it.

by **Number 9** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:46 pm

As well as the obvious formation problems at times as well as not picking our best 11 there are blatent flaws in our tactics against ultra defencive teams playing for a 0-0!

1) We need to stop the long hit n hope balls from deep in our own half!Its daft and absolutely pointless.The other team has 10 men up there usually and we have 2-3 if lucky.Add the fact that most defences in the League have defenders that are better headers of a ball than most of our attacking players..the result is that 9 times out of 10.You hit n hope a ball and all you do is give them possession!It needs to stop(in most cases)

2) We are still hitting too many high balls into the box,again,in most cases this needs to stop for the reason highlighted above!

3)When teams are defending and only defending,you need two strikers.There is no point playing 1 man up top especially if its Kuyt.The lone striker is never gonna win many balls when he is being charged at by 2 or 3 men every time the ball comes his way.We needed another man(Keane) up there yesterday to be pulling into space and taking defenders out of the way,at least then Kuyt may have got a sniff!

4) We need the manager to grow more balls.When teams play like Stoke Rafa puts more emphasis on protecting against the counter attack than attacking ourselves.We need to throw more men forward and score rather than worry about them scoring.When you watch Arsenal(at their best) for example playing against teams like that they get forward in numbers and the man with the ball always has options,it causes panic and defenders are not sure where they are best placed!

5) The simple tactic of getting the ball wide and hitting it in at pace and low into the box is what we want more in games like this.Or better still getting the ball to the by line and cutting it back in at pace away from goal causes panic as defenders hate defending a ball when they face their own net.
Yes easier said than done,but its what we should be trying more of in games like this(Of course the more men you have in the box the better chance of someone getting on the end of it)
Also more defenders are occupied.

Basically we have the men and the means to beat teams like this.We just need to be braver!

by **dawson99** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:48 pm

you need width when the midfield is packed

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:03 pm

The_Rock wrote:No enough "pacy" players on the flanks

I think that this is one of our major flaws, that we still haven't fixed. Chelsea and United won their titles because they had a lot of pace in attack. It's no surprise that Chelsea struggled when they sold Robben and Duff. We also see how United struggle when Ronaldo's injured or off form.

I think that Rafa bought Babel for this reason, but the guy just doesn't want to play out wide. My guess is that we'll see a new wide player soon, that's why we're being linked with guys like Kuba, Renato and Lafita.

by **aCe'** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:26 pm

to keep it simple... we need to get more attacking players involved in the game more often when we'r dealing with teams that park the bus.. players like gerrard, torres, keane, riera, even benny and kuyt...

its all well and dandy mascherano or hyypia having a blinder against a stoke or westbrom but thats ardly going to win us the game now is it... against stoke we werent allowing gerrard to dictate play from higher up the pitch... mostly down to the way RAFA set the team out... should have moved gerrard back to the middle of the park where he would have seen more of the ball and proably done more going forward that mascherano AND lucas combined...

keane, torres,, babel, benny, riera... when alonso is on the pitch (EVEN WHEN WE PLAY THE 4-2-3-1), with his passing range and ability he can get them in the game somehow... with lucas and mascherano they quite simply lack the ability of creating space or a good pass out of nothing... they are limited in a sense in what they do... nyways... way i see it.. whenever Alonso is not in the team there is absolutely no reason in hell we should be playing 5 in the middle...

4-4-2 all the way for me against anyone besides the other top3 .. gerrard in the middle and use all the best attacking options we have to the most....

by **aCe'** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:28 pm

just noticed my spelling is sht when im half drunk...

by **Rush Job** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:39 am

Good thread this.
Width is still a problem, our wide players are way to keen to come inside which is ok if the FB is over lapping but Riera at least being an out and out winger should be looking to get beyond the FB more and get the defence turned.
Everything gets funneled down the middle which is what the oppo want because they know we havent got a player ( without Torres) who can score from nothing or the type of player ( like Bergkamp ) who can pick a 6 yard pass to open a defense, not that dirk would get on the end of it.
I'm laying the blame at Rafas door for this one, starting with Kuyt up on his own when you've got Keane and Torres on the bench was madness. And it true what S@int says, ive said it myself, its not easy being a striker for us, playing again packed out defenses week in week out, often without a great deal of decent service. The reason Torres is so valuable to us is because he doesn't need great service to score, he can create for his self.

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Why do we fail to break 10 man - Defences down?

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