Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

Ive got to admit that this is the best post on this topic!

You are clearly easy pleased.

And that the people that posted first and before the season had kicked off need to re-read the posts and think of themselves as selfish to be honest. He has every right to think what will happen to his team if we fail, and it's an 'if' not a 'when'.

I have no idea what you mean by this statement, I am baffled.

Anyway, my opinion is, Rafa could go. Im only 16 and i sat and watched the game with my old man, and a mate, who is and Arsenal fan. And we debated our selections compared to the Gunners. We decided that the chances we have of winning the title like Rafa is doing now as Blackburn. No joke.

So you think that we have the same chance as Blackburn have of winning hte title ?

Is your Dad a bookie by any chance, and of so please can I have his number ?

It's just not going to work. Crouch (correct me if im wrong, last years top scorer?) looks like hes some blind man!

Agreed. That chest down and shot into the corner was clearly made to look so easy by using the bell in the ball's bladder.

Unlike Kuyt and Voronin, who can't score for tofffe in open play lets be honest.

Torres:    7
Kuyt:      5
Voronin:   4
Crouch:   2

They are goals scored this season. I have not split them into games in this competition or that competition, because we dont have a cup team, a league team and a european team unlike some people round here think.

(RE Crouch): he got games last year and we saw the profits from it. hat-trick vs Arsenal. The Arsenal team that's not much different than the one we played on Sunday, surely hed play?

Manuel Almunia                    Lehman
Gael Clichy                          Clichy
William Gallas                       Gallas
Kolo Toure                           Toure
Bacary Sagna                      Eboue
Emmanuel Eboue                   Hleb
Francesc Fabregas                Fabregas
Mathieu Flamini                    Diaby
Tomas Rosicky                      Denilson
Emmanuel Adebayor               Adebayor
Alexander Hleb                    Baptista

so thats 5 of the same side as the one we played last seaso nwhen we won 4-1.

Nobody, but nobody, not even Pele can play at there best when they aren't playing week-in and week-out. So Rafa has to sit down with his management team. And pick his best team when everybody is fit. then he decides is this good enough to win the league. I would say Yes. Back-ups aren't too bad either. Lucas etc.

A settled side is a bit of a luxury with the injuries we have had dont you think ?

So, i believe as much as i love Rafa for the trophies he's won the way he feels is right. Needs to review his policy.

I dont think that can be levelled until the end of the season. If you agree rotation is aimed at keeping players fresh, and you say he is rotating then surely the control of the experiment is to see if they are fresh at the end of the season ?

Is Rafa saying there unfit and can't compete like the other top 3?

No he is saying this is the method he beleives in, one that has proven to help keep players capable until the end of the season (3 finals in the last 3 seasons in MAy, one lost and two won) is one he thinks can work in the league, with the right players.

Something has to change, and it's to do with Rafa. His policy or him!

Valid comment? I think so.

Boll.ocks comment mate.

Either the manager changes his style or he gets replaced ? When you grow up, in a few years time and gget a job and work for people and with managers, then you will know why this is not an option. The manager is his style. He can work on it, but he cant change it completely.

[zarababe]

lol give  it up Leone, some people just ain't gonna be convinced - be interesting to know who they'd want instead of Rafa - not coming up with many alternatives now are they

[heimdall]

Sticking with the "What next" issue IF (and its a big IF ), IF Rafa were to be given the elbow , who exactly would those that would be happy to wave him goodbye want as his replacement ? . Top managers are few and far between, and whatever you think of Rafa,( his tactics, his rotation, his facial hair,) his record clearly shows that he's a top manager.

Disagree with that.  His record shows that he was a good manager in Spain and is a very good cup/european manager. It does not point to him being a great premiership manager and that is the problem.
Who would I want to replace him, pretty much anybody who can take us to the next level, but specifically how about Luiz Felipe Scolari or Guus Hiddink ?  

when I want your opinion I'll tell you what it is . In the meantime refrain from talking down Rafa's ability as a premiership manager whilst at the same time championing people who've never performed in it.

Plank ! I don't like you sunshine 

and when I want to read some sentimental drivel I'll take a glance at yours. I used to like you, not sure what I've done to offend you except offer a different opinion.
For a moderator you sure don't get the point of an open forum do you, who's the plank?
I don't need your permission to post my point of view.

when I want to read some sentimental drivel I'll take a glance at yours. I used to like you, not sure what I've done to offend you except offer a different opinion.

Somewhat ironically you use the words "drivel and opinion " in the same sentence. This from someone who has castigated Benitez's performance in the premiership with

His record shows that he was a good manager in Spain and is a very good cup/european manager. It does not point to him being a great premiership manager and that is the problem.

and in the same breath goes on to say

Who would I want to replace him, pretty much anybody who can take us to the next level, but specifically how about Luiz Felipe Scolari or Guus Hiddink

both of whom have no experience in the premiership and who's domestic records are far less significant than Benitez.

As for

For a moderator you sure don't get the point of an open forum do you, who's the plank?

You're obviously confusing me with Mother Teresa , and last time I checked, she was dead.

I used to like you,

I can only apologise for any lapse in my behavior that caused you to feel that way

I don't need your permission to post my point of view.

, Lets just say it helps.

Now f'uck off.

No chance of me going anywhere mate, nice to now I managed to get to you though, now why don't you go and grow a brain and stop being so rude.  Not very good for a mod to be abusive just because it doesn't agree with a post, what a small time d1ckhead you are.
My post was not contradictory at all, you asked who I would like to see replace Rafa and I gave you my answer which I will stand by. They may not have much prem experience but Rafa doesn't seem to be too savy with the prem either and this is his 4th year.

As a mod are you actually saying that you don't believe this should be an open forum where everybody can post their view, even if, god forbid, the poster should oppose your view? That is a fecking shocking admission and you should be banned as a mod if you actually believe that!!

[heimdall]

lol give  it up Leone, some people just ain't gonna be convinced - be interesting to know who they'd want instead of Rafa - not coming up with many alternatives now are they

read my post then, I gave two alternatives you smug git. BTW Try giving an opinion sometimes instead of just always agreeing with the mods!!

[66-1112520797]

I would just like to say going back to the original thread question.

"If we fail again this season what next"

I critise the bloke a fair bit on here, he does some things that leave me confused and annoyed at times. For me though he at least needs to see out this league season and the next.

I still mantain we HAVENT improved significantly enough in the league, at the same time though time should be on his side and patients needed, we're still a team in progress.

But that wont stop my rants at him from time to time, if he carries on doing weird things.

[Penguins]

Even if Rafa has baffled me a bit the last month with some weird decisions and selections I still have a hard time seeing sacking him will do us any good at all.

Try finding a manager who 100% do a better job in the PL.
Most mention managers that have 0 PL experience and I see no logic in that at all. Just a huge gamble.
And I still don't buy the "Rafa has got so much money to spend"
Different from Houllier Rafa rarely looses money on players
which makes it possible to actually get something for failing players. And it seems some people can't understand simple economics!
It is not how much you spend to buy players that matters, it is how much you buy AND sell players for= NET SPEND
Not once have Rafa had more than 20 million in net spend over a season. Torres money wasn't taken out of the owners pockets even if some wants to believe that.
Bellamy, Cissé, Garcia made sure he cost £0.
It is obvious to see that this team still has not got the quality to win the PL. You can't win the PL on just tactical brilliance like a cup. Having the ablity to put out a team with the most quality wins the league.
Wenger I would say is an overall exception to any manager since he is the best when taking in young players and making great players of them. No one else can do that at all.
I still think Rafa is too stubborn at times and I can't understand why Momo and Kuyt is still at the club, but I see nothing positive coming from replacing the gaffer.
He is slowly but steadily improving the team and making us a force once again but Houllier really left a sinking ship.
He did jack all his last 3 years and many players were worth nothing when Rafa came in. There was practically no money
to spend(only Owen's sale freed up some) and the mood in the squad wasn't good.
That magical night in Istanbul seems to have set up some incredible expectations instead of happiness about winning the big trophies again.
The PL is now the best league in the world and after the introduction of Chelski it has never been harder to win.
Manure will once again show what the team with the most money, biggest stadium etc will do=win.
I have waited 17 years and I am still convinced that the quickest way to the next title is to give Rafa a few more years. Chopping and changing will get us nowhere!

[burjennio]

Penguins Posted on Oct. 31 2007,13:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if Rafa has baffled me a bit the last month with some weird decisions and selections I still have a hard time seeing sacking him will do us any good at all.

Try finding a manager who 100% do a better job in the PL.
Most mention managers that have 0 PL experience and I see no logic in that at all. Just a huge gamble.
And I still don't buy the "Rafa has got so much money to spend"
Different from Houllier Rafa rarely looses money on players
which makes it possible to actually get something for failing players. And it seems some people can't understand simple economics!
It is not how much you spend to buy players that matters, it is how much you buy AND sell players for= NET SPEND
Not once have Rafa had more than 20 million in net spend over a season. Torres money wasn't taken out of the owners pockets even if some wants to believe that.
Bellamy, Cissé, Garcia made sure he cost £0.
It is obvious to see that this team still has not got the quality to win the PL. You can't win the PL on just tactical brilliance like a cup. Having the ablity to put out a team with the most quality wins the league.
Wenger I would say is an overall exception to any manager since he is the best when taking in young players and making great players of them. No one else can do that at all.
I still think Rafa is too stubborn at times and I can't understand why Momo and Kuyt is still at the club, but I see nothing positive coming from replacing the gaffer.
He is slowly but steadily improving the team and making us a force once again but Houllier really left a sinking ship.
He did jack all his last 3 years and many players were worth nothing when Rafa came in. There was practically no money
to spend(only Owen's sale freed up some) and the mood in the squad wasn't good.
That magical night in Istanbul seems to have set up some incredible expectations instead of happiness about winning the big trophies again.
The PL is now the best league in the world and after the introduction of Chelski it has never been harder to win.
Manure will once again show what the team with the most money, biggest stadium etc will do=win.
I have waited 17 years and I am still convinced that the quickest way to the next title is to give Rafa a few more years. Chopping and changing will get us nowhere!

Good post, people seem to forget that ManUtd were able to spend some £45million in the summer, and brought in a player in Tevez who will cost them another £30m at the end of the season, and the Russian Rouble that built Chelsea - so people who whine about all this money that Rafa has apparantly spent need to look around the rest of the league (Look at Spurs FFS!!!)

[Leonmc0708]

I have waited 17 years and I am still convinced that the quickest way to the next title is to give Rafa a few more years. Chopping and changing will get us nowhere!

Excellent point.

have to agree.

[account deleted by request]

I have waited 17 years and I am still convinced that the quickest way to the next title is to give Rafa a few more years. Chopping and changing will get us nowhere!

Excellent point.

have to agree.

I agree mate but not as whole heartedly as I once would have. The first doubts have begun to shadow my thoughts now. My once firmly held beliefs are now begining to be shaken.

TBH I think I am suffering from Gerard Houllier syndrome at the moment, I remained loyal to him for much too long, papered over the cracks, ignored the warning signs and defended him much too long, but I would prefer to be accused of being too loyal rather than disloyal, so onwards and upwards.(hopefully)

[stmichael]

TBH I think I am suffering from Gerard Houllier syndrome at the moment, I remained loyal to him for much too long, papered over the cracks, ignored the warning signs and defended him much too long, but I would prefer to be accused of being too loyal rather than disloyal, so onwards and upwards.(hopefully)

I agree. We gave Houllier 6 seasons, Ferguson took 6 seasons before he succeeded in the league. So why would sacking Rafa after 4 seasons be reasonable? Two CL finals in three years.

Every team goes through injuries, but not every team has most all of their influential players out at the same time. ManUtd struggled without Ronaldo and Rooney in the line up, remember? Chelsea didn't even score a goal in September without Drogba and Lampard. Arsenal have only been missing Gallas. Apart from him they've had a full strength squad to pick from all season.

I think it's reasonable to re-evaluate Rafa when Liverpool are playing consistently bad at close to full strength. I mean the spine of our team has been decimated in recent weeks.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I can't wait till the end of the season, Benitez must go now. The "football" we are playing currently wouldn't even get us in the play-offs in league 2. Over 100 million to spend and alls he can achieve domestically in 20 odd points behind the champions. I'll never forget Benitez for the 25th of May 2005, but it's proven to me that he is unable to win us the league.

and yet at the start of the season you were sure we would be league champions.......what has changed your mind, is it because we are still unbeaten in the league?
The missus mustn't know where she stands with you, cooks a nice meal and you tell her you'll be together forever, the next day she serves up a frey bentos pie and you're getting divorced

At the start of the season, like every other year, i thought Liverpool would win the league, and on paper we have the best squad in Britain if not Europe, but as the great man said, football is played on grass not paper. But since that early optimism Benitez has shown that his main priority is still Europe which is why Torres was dropped for the Portsmouth game because after Portsmouth was Porto in the European Cup, also Gerrard being substituted in the derby was down to having a european tie the following game and sod all to do with "we need players who can pass the ball"

As for being unbeaten, its a fact that we are, but we've already drawn 4 games at home. 8 points dropped at Anfield already, which isn't good enough if we're expecting to challenge for major honours. Under Benitez we won't win the league unless he drops his rotation policy and concentrates solely on the premiership. Also he starts dropping these so called "top internationals" because so many of them aren't worthy of wearing a Liverpool shirt and keeps the same 11 week in week out of players with quality rather than the current dead wood he's picking now.

[Ade]

I have waited 17 years and I am still convinced that the quickest way to the next title is to give Rafa a few more years. Chopping and changing will get us nowhere!

Excellent point.

have to agree.

I agree mate but not as whole heartedly as I once would have. The first doubts have begun to shadow my thoughts now. My once firmly held beliefs are now begining to be shaken.

TBH I think I am suffering from Gerard Houllier syndrome at the moment, I remained loyal to him for much too long, papered over the cracks, ignored the warning signs and defended him much too long, but I would prefer to be accused of being too loyal rather than disloyal, so onwards and upwards.(hopefully)

Agree with this. I'm still supporting Rafa - his record in La Liga and with us in Europe proves he's a winner, and he's a decent man too. But I've been saying for two years - like others on this board have – that there is one consistent problem with his management, and that's rotation.

If he rotates throughout the rest of the season like he has for the past 3 years, and like he has since this season started, I will be amazed if we win the league. I'll take my hat off to him, but i just don't think it will happen.

In his own way, he is  - like Houllier - starting to make a virtue out of being stubborn. And to those who say STFU, that his style has worked before, well it hasn't worked in the premiership at all.

I think our position in the league is flattering us at the moment - the points we took from Everton, Spurs and Arsenal were more than we deserved for starters. We're not playing like potential champions, and something has to change, or else all we'll have left to celebrate this season is our undisputed title of England's best and most loyal fans. Again.

Also agree with Helmdall on Leon - no good as a mod.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

The so called "football" we have been playing since we went to Fratton Park bar the Carling Cup game against Reading has been no better than what was being drossed up under Souness.

[chrisrafman]

look at the i got for starting this thread, look at us now! same old liverpool. but ill still love them no matter what

[The_Rock]

look at the i got for starting this thread, look at us now! same old liverpool. but ill still love them no matter what

so which group you want to be under ?  look at the JBG thread ...kekeke