Liverpool FC Forum

by **April** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:27 pm

GYBS wrote:Rafa wont put someone into the team just cause they are having a whinge

Benayoun maybe a good chance,then kuyt is very tired from country game.what's your opinion?

by **GYBS** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Kuyt doesnt get tired as he is super human and will start - Rafa will go with strongest line up available to get three points .

by **tubby** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:56 pm

Yeah I hope Rafa goes for the 3 points with a strong line up. With Villa playing Utd there could be a chance to extend the gap between us even more which we cannot pass up.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:00 pm

Anybody fancy a pint in the Oakfield before the game ? I'll be there for about 1 p.m., light brown Michelin-Man-type jacket....

by **Raffmaker** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:33 am

My team for a definate win:

reina

Arbeloa Carra Hyypia Aurelio

Kuyt Alonso Masch Riera

Babel

Torres

DAnny Murphy lol a Numpty! hence the reason he plays for FUlahm and not Arsenal or Juve.
lol lol loll

by **heimdall** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:45 am

Bad Bob wrote:
heimdall wrote:he'll probably start N'Gog, that lads class and proven up front

Or, maybe he'll start Torres, Keane or Kuyt up top like he's done all season, with significant success? And, I wish someone would explain to me where all this "we should give Babel a game at striker" nonsense is coming from? We're joint leaders and have a settled side--something most people have been wanting to see for ages--and just because poor Ryan Babel doesn't like riding pine, we should chuck that all out the window and give him a go? Do me a favour.

I thought we were joint top of the table aren't we?
I've been saying give Babel a chance up top for bloody ages, it has nothing to do with having an "alleged" whinge but more because he has the ability to score goals even with limited playing minutes, it's got to be worth a go hasn't it?

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:19 am

heimdall wrote:I thought we were joint top of the table aren't we?
I've been saying give Babel a chance up top for bloody ages, it has nothing to do with having an "alleged" whinge but more because he has the ability to score goals even with limited playing minutes, it's got to be worth a go hasn't it?

Aye, I said we were joint leaders.

Anyway, Babel's ability to score goals, IMO, is directly related to his ability to run at tired defenders after coming off the bench. Of the 11 goals he's scored in his Liverpool career so far, only 3 have come as a starter and each of those has been against cannon fodder (Derby, Luton Town and a very poor Bolton team). So his role, IMO, should strictly be as a 'supersub' (although he's been well south of 'super' on plenty of occasions this season) in a team that has a winning formula established and doesn't need any switching about in terms of the starting line up.

As for giving him a chance, he got a start up top against Crewe and I'd be happy to give him another go when the FA Cup rolls around. In the prem or CL? No thanks. As a partner to Torres? Never in a million years--he'll just get in Nando's way.

by **Toffeehater** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:08 am

Bad Bob wrote:
heimdall wrote:I thought we were joint top of the table aren't we?
I've been saying give Babel a chance up top for bloody ages, it has nothing to do with having an "alleged" whinge but more because he has the ability to score goals even with limited playing minutes, it's got to be worth a go hasn't it?

Aye, I said we were joint leaders.

Anyway, Babel's ability to score goals, IMO, is directly related to his ability to run at tired defenders after coming off the bench. Of the 11 goals he's scored in his Liverpool career so far, only 3 have come as a starter and each of those has been against cannon fodder (Derby, Luton Town and a very poor Bolton team). So his role, IMO, should strictly be as a 'supersub' (although he's been well south of 'super' on plenty of occasions this season) in a team that has a winning formula established and doesn't need any switching about in terms of the starting line up.

As for giving him a chance, he got a start up top against Crewe and I'd be happy to give him another go when the FA Cup rolls around. In the prem or CL? No thanks. As a partner to Torres? Never in a million years--he'll just get in Nando's way.

Have those two ever played together? Get in nando's way how do you know they will? Like i said till rafa does not give him a decent run of 5 games or so , we can can't judge if he'll make it or not . A start every 5-6 or so is not going to help his progress.

by **Owzat** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:02 am

Had a brief dream last night (one of a few) that Fulham had a free-kick around the 73rd minute, it was so close to the goal that a player broke from the wall and the ref forced the wall back to behind the goalline like with indirect free-kicks inside the area or like in hockey penalty corners. They scored and we were behind, while TV was replaying the goal we equalised. Not sure what happened then, or if we were even at home. Fingers crossed that scenario doesn't happen, 1-1 after 74 minutes is not what we should be aiming at

by **Owzat** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:10 am

Bad Bob wrote:
heimdall wrote:I thought we were joint top of the table aren't we?
I've been saying give Babel a chance up top for bloody ages, it has nothing to do with having an "alleged" whinge but more because he has the ability to score goals even with limited playing minutes, it's got to be worth a go hasn't it?

Aye, I said we were joint leaders.

Anyway, Babel's ability to score goals, IMO, is directly related to his ability to run at tired defenders after coming off the bench. Of the 11 goals he's scored in his Liverpool career so far, only 3 have come as a starter and each of those has been against cannon fodder (Derby, Luton Town and a very poor Bolton team). So his role, IMO, should strictly be as a 'supersub' (although he's been well south of 'super' on plenty of occasions this season) in a team that has a winning formula established and doesn't need any switching about in terms of the starting line up.

As for giving him a chance, he got a start up top against Crewe and I'd be happy to give him another go when the FA Cup rolls around. In the prem or CL? No thanks. As a partner to Torres? Never in a million years--he'll just get in Nando's way.

Sometimes people will think easy home games are an opportunity to try things, I do that if I'm playing a footy management game or even PES. But it is risky, some might even call it *coughs* rotation *coughs*

Trying to make a player who is not doing as well as hoped, or price tag suggests, succeed is a dangerous game, be it Babel, Keane, Dossena or even some of the others. They might not have actually cost us much so far, but that's because we have lost only twice. But their profligacy or poor defending can cost us goals, either through not scoring or being conceded. Sooner or later a missed chance or chances, and poor defending, will cost us. It has at spudz in the league, it has cost us a few points here and there through draws and also in the Champions League.

So do you put in the profligate Keane thinking he'll start converting regularly, or take him out and believe the chances will come a different way and the less profligate players will convert chances? If they weren't gift wrapped chances it would be easier to forgive them, if we were scoring a lot more freely it would be easier to forgive them. So as applies with Keane, so too applies to Babel, and N'Gog, as applied to Crouch, Bellamy, Morientes, Cisse, Kuyt etc etc etc in the same position.

Anyone else wondering if we shouldn't have kept Cisse?

by **Rockthekop** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:11 am

Many fans are judging Babel based on a few starts and most as a sub. Not only that but he's also played out of position.

How can they possibly make a fair analysis of the player based on that?

Babel is one of our better players and until he has a good run of consecutive games as a striker we can't make a fair assessment.

by **Owzat** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 am

Rockthekop wrote:Many fans are judging Babel based on a few starts and most as a sub. Not only that but he's also played out of position.

How can they possibly make a fair analysis of the player based on that?

Babel is one of our better players and until he has a good run of consecutive games as a striker we can't make a fair assessment.

But on the same basis you're suggesting we should include him?!?!?!?!?!? Call me 'old school' or old fashioned, but if a player makes a consistently GOOD impression as sub or in a different role then they are rewarded with a starting place. Has Babel done that? (no)

Is he better than Riera on the left? NO
Is he better starting than Keane up front? Possibly, but how can you tell based on what we're basing a 'no' on?!?!?

I don't dislike Babel, his record is patchy at best and he is more effective off the bench. Now we have Riera, Babel will start less on the left and get even less chance to 'prove' himself. Kuyt has done very well on the right, I think he's done more to warrant a place up front than Babel or Keane combined

by **Rockthekop** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:50 am

I would expect Riera to be better than Babel considering he's a natural left winger. I just think that until he has a fair crack of the whip we can't judge him purely on his bit part role.

Kuyt has been played to death and deserves to be in the team sure but he's had the chance to earn it despite many poor performances.

I like Babel and I think there's definitely plenty of potential for him to be a quality striker. On the other hand he may not realise his potential but we won't know that until he's given his chance. Not as a sub, not starting the odd game but by playing consecutive games as a striker.

by **Owzat** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:57 am

Rockthekop wrote:I would expect Riera to be better than Babel considering he's a natural left winger. I just think that until he has a fair crack of the whip we can't judge him purely on his bit part role.

Kuyt has been played to death and deserves to be in the team sure but he's had the chance to earn it despite many poor performances.

I like Babel and I think there's definitely plenty of potential for him to be a quality striker. On the other hand he may not realise his potential but we won't know that until he's given his chance. Not as a sub, not starting the odd game but by playing consecutive games as a striker.

But on what do you base giving him a chance? A whim? Random selection? Trying to make someone work in which case why not try N'Gog or one of the youth strikers?

I don't disagree he's not had a fair crack of the whip, but Rafa can't just say "awwww, poor Babel wabel, I haven't given him a fair chance. Let's jeopardise our title challenge to give him a shot at glory up front, even though he's NEVER shown any signs that he will ever become a top striker. In fact poor Benayoun, wenayoun. He's upset too. Let's drop Gerrard and give him a chance. And poor Dossena wossena, he's upset and so let's give him a run at LB even though he's pants. And poor Diego wiego, can't get a run in goal so let's drop Reina"

Or put another way, we saw what the feel sorry for themselves XI did in the Carling Cup - got beat and looked pretty ordinary. It's not a lot to base selection on it, but what happened to not changing winning formulas? And if so, why change it to a formula that never has worked properly? You could make a case for ANY player to be given a chance, even PENNANT. I don't hear cries of "include Pennant and try him until he fails". I didn't hear it when Kuyt was having a rough time. Or for others, just seems to be personal favouritism so you're trying to make a case out of personal bias

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:52 pm

Yes, I agree that we won't know precisely what Babel would offer up top in a partnership with Torres until we try it out but I'll at least tell you what I suspect. I suspect that Ryan will make a complete hash of it because he doesn't have the close control, game intelligence or concentration levels to be a quality second/creative striker. He won't drop deep to link play effectively, he won't play Torres in with clever passing and he won't create space for Torres with his movement. I've seen more than enough of the lad to suspect that none of the things we'd be looking for in a partner for Torres are in Babel's locker. What he would do, I suspect, is look to lead the line and use his pace to burn off defenders on balls in behind. In doing so, he'd get in Torres' way and inhibit his natural game. No, much like Gerrard and Lampard seem a dream CM on paper but completely fail to click in reality, I think playing Babel with Torres would be counter-productive for both and not the dream strike force that most people seem to think they'd be.

Liverpool FC Forum

LIVERPOOL VS FULHAM - Saturday 22nd november 15.00pm ko

Who is online