Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:21 am

thanks guys...

it seems that this season, rafa's subs been paying off... the team seems to respond well to both changes in personnel and tactics... and I guess this is how he wans his team to be... to respond according to the situation, to be flexible... it probably puts to bed to an extent the theory on how footballers need to play a very fix formation and position to be able to play decent football at all...

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:23 am

Just looked at kuyt's second goal again . You got to say that is a top class finish , he hit in right into the ground and the bounce made to unstoppable for kirkland .

As for keane , i think he will still come good , like BB has said he showed some nice touches , anticipation , timed his run beautifully in the first half for his first chance , difficult angle to score from . I think rafa needs to let him play his natural game , staying the box . I think he has come back too deep at times .

by **maguskwt** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:26 am

Toffeehater wrote:Just looked at kuyt's second goal again . You got to say that is a top class finish , he hit in right into the ground and the bounce made to unstoppable for kirkland .

As for keane , i think he will still come good , like BB has said he showed some nice touches , anticipation , timed his run beautifully in the first half for his first chance , difficult angle to score from . I think rafa needs to let him play his natural game , staying the box . I think he has come back too deep at times .

the problem is if the manager lets everyone play their natural game who's gonna sacrifice for the team? IMO kuyt's natural game is in and around the box as well... so who's gonna play the link up game? we don't have a player like rooney or tevez...

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:29 am

maguskwt wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:Just looked at kuyt's second goal again . You got to say that is a top class finish , he hit in right into the ground and the bounce made to unstoppable for kirkland .

As for keane , i think he will still come good , like BB has said he showed some nice touches , anticipation , timed his run beautifully in the first half for his first chance , difficult angle to score from . I think rafa needs to let him play his natural game , staying the box . I think he has come back too deep at times .

the problem is if the manager lets everyone play their natural game who's gonna sacrifice for the team? IMO kuyt's natural game is in and around the box as well... so who's gonna play the link up game? we don't have a player like rooney or tevez...

Keane and torres were starting to link up well before the injury to torres and keane has shown he can pick out a pass , i think right at the dieing moments he should have played the early pass to yossi , in the end he played it to stevie

by **Bam** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:45 am

I have to say I think Steve Bruce took the whole of Anfield by surprise including Rafa and the lads. Wigan didnt come to sit back, on the contray they went for it and played the better football in the first half. Whether that took our lads by surprise I dont know, but I thought we were pretty poor today right up until their sending off.

Our defence was suspect in particular Agger and Dossena, five minutes before Wigans first goal I was screaming at the TV. Agger moments before the goal played the Wigan attack onside which opened up a decent opportunity for Reina to save. The Dane looked lost, then five minutes later it was even worse as he gifted Zaki the ball, too slot home. The pundits were blaming Reina also, but if you look at the replay Reina waved Agger to him, as if to say recieve the ball. Agger obliged, if he didnt want it he could of said so, as it was Aggers touch let him down for Zaki to steel and score.
Same with Dossena for Wigans second goal, there should of been no way their RM was aloud to turn him and Agger inside out, although Dossena was the closest of the two defenders, to allow him to get the cross in for Zaki's brilliantly taken goal. Also Alonso and Arbeloa were suspect in pick Zaki up, but IMO Dossena shouldnt of allowed the cross in, in the first place.

Agger redeemed himself 8 minutes later though, in typical Agger style he carried the ball a good 50 yards towards the left and played a nice 1-2 with Rieira then Agger turned Melchiot inside out and picked out Kuyt for our equaliser. Good finnish that from Dirky !

Riera who was my man of the match took his goal well and looked the most likely from an average midfield today to unlock something, or make something happen. Neither Gerrard nor Alonso were really at the races, and while Pennant provided the odd cross here and there he continued to run down blind alleys all day long which as usual had no real end product.

Keane had a decent opportunity in the first half after some lovely play by Riera and the Spainards through ball to Keane was top draw. Unfortunately that miss only went onto highlight his afternoon, good work rate like Kuyt, but was never really in the match, never imposed himself and never really got the service required from his teamates.
Kuyt, the same as Keane worked hard and found himself in two good positions on seperate occassions, and oddly enough scoring from both of them. He was also very unlucky Kirkland got finger tips to his cracking shot in the first half. Kuyt did well.

MoTM - Rieira, no doubt. The rest of the side were pretty average if truth be told.

We cannot carry on going behind in matches, and only show momentum when we go a goal done. Although I'm stoked at the win which is what basically matters at the end of the day. But the lads will need to up it against Chelsea.

Oh, and Brucie suck s.hit !

by **Owzat** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:02 am

tonyeh wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Don't know how Liverpool keep pulling it off

Wigan deserved to win that game. They were the better team by far and I was really impressed by Zaki. MoM for me.

Riera played his socks off, proving his worth again and Dirk Kuyt..good for him. Best game I've seen him play for a long, long time.

But, my god, does Agger look rusty. In fairness though, it was Reina's fault for the goal. He should never have made that pass out.

Liverpool seriously need to get a result against Chelsea next week. I don't think they're going to lose 4 games this year and they're GD is climibing away.

Joint top is still 2nd place.

That's what this place needs - a positive mental attitude...

Sorry Peter (er, I mean...Lando ) but I don't believe in bullsh1t "positive mental atitudes". If something's bad, then it's bad and Liverpool were pretty bad today.

If they play like that against Chelsea, they can forget it.

A win is a win, but they need to go up a few gears.

Not a positive mental attitude or a negative mental attitude...just a real one.

To be fair Wigan were rather lucky with their goals. Agger caught in possession, trying to be clever when challenged even though Reina should know better than to pass the ball to the last man right in front of goal (as bad as a ball played across your penalty area). Zaki robbed him, they didn't create that goal, we gifted them it. Their second was poor defending by Dossena and Agger, to beat two men in that tight area is poor defending, and Zaki was "lucky" in the sense he connected well but most times it would have gone nowhere near the goal. Good technique yes, but could he repeat that and do it every time - I doubt it. I thought overall our possession and play was more deserving of reward, the sending off was silly but deserved although I think it wasn't that crucial in the outcome.

Kuyt was my MOTM, two goals and two other good efforts saved to deny him. Riera also had a good game, Pennant showed what he can do in patches. I am surprised El Zhar doesn't get more appearances, he has popped up a couple of times as sub and made an impact. Dossena really needs to show serious improvement in his defending. Gerrard wasn't quite up to his usual game, Keane had another disappointing afternoon too. I bet players like N'Gog and El Zhar are wondering how they can't get a game.

As mentioned in the Kuyt thread, there are one or two 'milestones' and a few miscellaneous stats :

1. Liverpool are on 20 points after eight games, equalling the most Rafa has achieved at the start of a season after 10 games

Best Starts Under Rafa

1. 2008/9 : P8 W6 D2 L0 PTS 20
2. 2007/8 : P10 W5 D5 L0 PTS 20
3. 2004/5 : P10 W5 D2 L3 PTS 17
4. 2005/6 : P10 W4 D4 L2 PTS 16
5. 2006/7 : P10 W4 D2 L4 PTS 14

2. 20 points from eight games equals our best start ever to a Premiership season

96/97 DWDWWWWW = 20 points
08/09 WWDWDWWW = 20 points

23 points from nine games would be a new best, current best is 21 points from nine game.

3. Dirk Kuyt's brace takes him level with Torres on five goals for the season in all competitions, not bad for someone playing mostly out wide up against a Spanish goal machine

Liverpool Top Scorers 2008/9

5 Kuyt, Torres
4 Gerrard
1 Agger, Babel, Lucas, Keane, Riera

The other two scorers for Liverpool were Pogatetz and Brown (own goals)

4. That is the fifth time Liverpool have come from behind this season out of just 13 games. Five games were won without ever being behind, the three draws were all 0-0 - Standard Liege away, Aston Villa away and Stoke at home.

5. Liverpool scored just 12 goals in the first 10 games, they have scored three goals in each of the last three games.

6. Having kept four clean sheets in the first five games (80%), Liverpool have kept just two in the last eight (25%) In those first five games Liverpool scored just four goals (0.800 goals per game), but 17 in the last eight (2.125 goals per game)

I tend to agree with sentiments we need to improve, so far we have only really played Man Utd and that was arguably our best performance. We may have won 10 out of 13, but half of those were from behind and the last two involved red cards against the opposition. We can't rely on red cards and comebacks, our next two are away to Atletico and then an easy trip to Stamford Bridge. I'll bet we won't come back from behind if we concede (first) there.

by **Number 9** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:31 am

peewee wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
peewee wrote:I am not changing anything barry, he is still not good enough based on a couple of late goals this season, just doing it in a couple of games cuts no mustard with me mate, I gave the lad credit for his performance today, I am sure you would have whinged if I say he was rubbish today, I slate him and you complain, I give him credit and you complain.

Now read my post again, I say if he did it consistently then he would be ok, I am not for one second suggesting he has suddenly become a good player, just he was decent today and if he did that at least 75% of the time he would be ok. Even bramble has the odd decent game mate but it still doesnt make him a footballer. Kuyt has to do this consistently and not just pop us with a couple of goals every 28 games so let's have this dicussion in 28 games time

Thats where we differ,I see the positives Kuyt brings to LFC and has done from last Xmas.You focus on the negatives and constantly complain and overlook the good things to benefit your own obsession!

I call a spade spade,you call a spade a club from what I read anyway on most of the matches you see!
Im here to remind you when you are wrong from where I see it.Maybe im a little over critical of what you say at times but you may get used to it.....because after your totally unjust and OTT beating down of a player that i respect i feel its my right to remind you when he plays well.
Dont try filling in with,yeah he should be upfront or thats why he should never be played on the right either mate!
You repeatadly stated that he was not good enough for LFC full stop,take a look at the table and ask yourself where we would be without him!

Never a world beater,but important ..bitter sweet!

haha, i think only one of us says it as it it barry and it isn't you, as for where would we be without kuyt, well probably 2 points clear if he didnt try and get in on gerrard free kick against stoke. And just maybe without him we wouldn't have needed late goals with a decent winger.

Ffs barry I praised the guy today and you are still trying to start fights, I just refer you to 3 goals in 30 games to hopefully give you a reality check

Oh right so he hes playing a blinder and you blame him for getting in on Gerrards free kick,so its his fault solely that we aint two points clear!

Absolutely pathetic thing to come off with Peewee and you know that!
FFS..as Stu would say GET A CLUE LAD!!

And PS I aint trying to start fights,cant be fuc'ked with em anymore,simply telling you that you have been overcritical and way to hard on the guy.I dont need to say any more,looks ike Kuyt is on his way to doing that himself if he keeps it up!

by **Rafa D** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:46 am

Dirks scored 5 goals this season. He started up front in this game and got himself 4 good chances and finished half of them.

He was great.

by **RedBlood** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:06 am

dirk has got the winning goals in our last 2 prem games plus that all important goal in the champs league when we were dangerously close to going out and the opener against psv whitch is also important

he gives 110% every second he is on the pitch for OUR team and i love him for that, hes nowhere near as bad as some people make out and now hes getting these goals maybe people will start to get off his back..... well we can live in hope

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:38 am

We wasted 26 million on torres , he and dirk have gotten the same amount of goals and dirk only cause us 10 million . I expected more from torres

Paid over the odds for him there rafa

by **Bam** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:49 am

peewee wrote:
duk wrote:4 goals in torres' last 2 EPL games and 3 for Kuyt in his last 2

just need Keane to join in

well to be fair kuyt has 3 in his last 28 league games which is Shiite, the lad did well today, if he starts to do it consistently he will be ok, but I think as soon as torres is fit kuyt will be back on the right where he has no good impact on the game

by **kazza** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:57 am

Kuyt has outscored Berbatov this season

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:09 pm

there is no back pedalling going on here, the guy deserved credit for his performance today and I gave him credit, quite simply if he did that more often there would be no issue, the fact is though these type of performances from kuyt are few and far between. A few goals dont really change anything, if they did mellor would still be here.

You criticize me for being over critical yet for the wigan game I praised kuyt yet you still have a go barry.

He did well today but then again my dog does pleasant f@rts sometimes. :laugh:

by **Bam** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:16 pm

He did well today but then again my dog does pleasant f@rts sometimes.

Really ?

I just found that pic Pee and had to post it, I think Kuyt is average too mate, though he does work hard.

by **Bam** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:06 pm

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