Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:10 am

Both sides of this argument are kind of right. Babel will never develop an instanct for the game which a Fowler or a Scholes has, we used to call it a "football brain" in the old days, and it's what enables a player to still look class even when his legs have gone. Babel hasn't got it now, and he never will. He's always going to be what he is now, a 100 miles an hour player who just kind of does things off the cuff. He won't change.

I do disagree with the notion though that it isn't possible to improve a player with coaching. You may not improve his "attributes" but to me that's never been a reliable way of grading a player anyway. What you can improve is the way a player fits into a team structure, you can explain to him with the aid of a blackboard and a piece of chalk where he'd be better off operating. You can point out to him with video where he is going wrong, explain to him where you think he should be headed. You won't make Babel World Class, but you can make him a much better player I think.

I've always said that with Babel the time when he is most difficult to play against, when as a result of him being on the pitch something is most likely to happen, is when he is running with the ball. Stu has pointed out a couple of times that he doesn't accept the ball well when running and there's something in this, neither does he have a pocketful of tricks. He does though have pace, and the ability to commit defeders giving them a short space of time to stick a leg out and make a decision. My coaching of him would largely consist of explaining to him how he could best arrive at a situation more often where he has the ball at his feet. I'd ecourage him to come in off the left touchline, recieve into feet, turn left and move infield with it. He's right footed anyway so he should be able to do that. I'd want him to operate as an inside forward more than a left midfielder, but wherever he was I'd try and get him to look to run with it more.

Anyway a good example of somebody who has improved themselves with practice would be Beckham practicing free kicks for hours. Lampard practicing shooting, Mark Hughes practicing volleys. Players don't just practice what they aren't good at, they practice their strengths as well.

Babel hasn't got that many, but he has some. I'd work on getting him to utilise those as much as possible. It has to be said though that at this juncture, the path to a regular starting spot in the team for either him or Lucas (which is the best part of 20 million quids worth) looks fraught with difficulties.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:27 am

shut up and play football. reminds me of cisse's obssession with his ink and hair. :glare:

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:11 am

bigmick wrote:Both sides of this argument are kind of right. Babel will never develop an instanct for the game which a Fowler or a Scholes has, we used to call it a "football brain" in the old days, and it's what enables a player to still look class even when his legs have gone. Babel hasn't got it now, and he never will. He's always going to be what he is now, a 100 miles an hour player who just kind of does things off the cuff. He won't change.

I do disagree with the notion though that it isn't possible to improve a player with coaching. You may not improve his "attributes" but to me that's never been a reliable way of grading a player anyway. What you can improve is the way a player fits into a team structure, you can explain to him with the aid of a blackboard and a piece of chalk where he'd be better off operating. You can point out to him with video where he is going wrong, explain to him where you think he should be headed. You won't make Babel World Class, but you can make him a much better player I think.

I've always said that with Babel the time when he is most difficult to play against, when as a result of him being on the pitch something is most likely to happen, is when he is running with the ball. Stu has pointed out a couple of times that he doesn't accept the ball well when running and there's something in this, neither does he have a pocketful of tricks. He does though have pace, and the ability to commit defeders giving them a short space of time to stick a leg out and make a decision. My coaching of him would largely consist of explaining to him how he could best arrive at a situation more often where he has the ball at his feet. I'd ecourage him to come in off the left touchline, recieve into feet, turn left and move infield with it. He's right footed anyway so he should be able to do that. I'd want him to operate as an inside forward more than a left midfielder, but wherever he was I'd try and get him to look to run with it more.

Anyway a good example of somebody who has improved themselves with practice would be Beckham practicing free kicks for hours. Lampard practicing shooting, Mark Hughes practicing volleys. Players don't just practice what they aren't good at, they practice their strengths as well.

Babel hasn't got that many, but he has some. I'd work on getting him to utilise those as much as possible. It has to be said though that at this juncture, the path to a regular starting spot in the team for either him or Lucas (which is the best part of 20 million quids worth) looks fraught with difficulties.

Spot on that mick but I feel you can learn to have a footballing brain , the brain is very powerful and it doesn't stop learning like a super computer.

Now I feel if you can go to uni and learn a whole 4 years on a new subject say in law or math it is possible to learn things in football.

I hear storys about 70 year old ladies and men that go to uni and learn all sorts of things ranging from sports science to nano technolgy.

So I don't think it isn't impossible I think some of you tell you selfs this because you never made it as footballers and it makes you feel better about that(not trying to be insulting).

I think Ian wright is a good one to show he never made it as a footballer at first , people said he just wasn't good but when he hit 22 he started to improve alot and grew a footballing brain he turned into a fantastic player.

by **Owzat** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:57 am

Of course a player can improve beyond the age of 16-19, ffs people aren't all fully developed physically by that age and you can add muscle etc for starters. Their bodies will become stronger and adapt to the physical strains, they may not get faster but speed is hardly a footballing skill or essential. There's also experience, wisdom and learning new tricks. Stu wants to name one player who got better, well CRISTIANO RONALDO is one glaringly obvious example. He's added nearly convincing diving to his stepovers and falling over routines! :laugh:

But seriously, Ronaldo had his best season ever last season and he started that season aged 22 and finished it aged 23. Babel is currently 21, not that I expect him to become as good as Ronaldo in a short space of time.

Players probably won't radically improve if they don't have the basic ability by the age of 20. How good they become will depend on a number of factors. Babel has to improve, he has time on his side. But most footballers peak in their mid to late 20s, they may not have developed much in skill but experience helps positioning etc and they learn football. As you get older you get wiser, some footballers learn a lot quicker too

by **mistyred** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:21 am

Wow for a player some don't think is good enough there is certainly a need to go about him like some
kind of secret obsession

Where's the Benyoun thread i got a feeling even if Henry came in his prime from
Arsenal he would have still got stick take as you want it's just my gut feeling that some don't appreciate raw talent
and will always get on players back's.

If your so Fuckin smart apply for the managers job.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:09 am

mistyred wrote:Wow for a player some don't think is good enough there is certainly a need to go about him like some
kind of secret obsession Where's the Benyoun thread i got a feeling even if Henry came in his prime from
Arsenal he would have still got stick take as you want it's just my gut feeling that some don't appreciate raw talent
and will always get on players back's.

If your so Fuckin smart apply for the managers job.

Was that aimed at Stu ?

by **Toffeehater** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:37 am

Just a interesting theory , if babel was at arsenal , he'd be playing week in and week out , he'd probably be twice the player , he has the talent , all he needs to do is improves his first touch and put in some good crosses . If he was at arsenal , i bet we'd be :censored:

ourselves thinking we had missed out such a player .

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:58 am

I think Babel has raw talent - but it is very raw, and he needs to work with the manager and coaches to harness it effectively. I think it'll be interesting to see whether he has the 'football intelligence' to be able to do so - at the moment I have my doubts as he seems to make poor decisions at times.

If he's going to play on the left, he needs to work on his left foot. Too often he receives the pass and takes it back where it's come from because he wants to cut inside all the time and that has been a fundamental cause of our lack of width in the past. His reluctance to go down the line seems to stem from a lack of confidence in his ability to deliver a ball into the box - well founded lack of confidence in my opinion.

(I'd like to see more of him on the right hand side personally)

I also think he lacks the cajones at times, doesn't seem to have the stomach for the fight - not prepared to throw himself in where it hurts to score a goal, I saw it on a number of occasions last season with balls into the box where he basically didn't fancy getting clattered.

Start putting those things right and we've got a player I think.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:58 am

Jimmy the Weasel wrote:I think Babel has raw talent - but it is very raw, and he needs to work with the manager and coaches to harness it effectively. I think it'll be interesting to see whether he has the 'football intelligence' to be able to do so - at the moment I have my doubts as he seems to make poor decisions at times.

If he's going to play on the left, he needs to work on his left foot. Too often he receives the pass and takes it back where it's come from because he wants to cut inside all the time and that has been a fundamental cause of our lack of width in the past. His reluctance to go down the line seems to stem from a lack of confidence in his ability to deliver a ball into the box - well founded lack of confidence in my opinion.

(I'd like to see more of him on the right hand side personally)

I also think he lacks the cajones at times, doesn't seem to have the stomach for the fight - not prepared to throw himself in where it hurts to score a goal, I saw it on a number of occasions last season with balls into the box where he basically didn't fancy getting clattered.

Start putting those things right and we've got a player I think.

Good post. :nod

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:44 pm

And a thread killer too apparently!

by **redhayesy** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:10 pm

brilliant team performance last night, apart from when babel came on! he offered nothing up front-keeps stating he is a centre foward, judge me when i play in my favourite position etc, ffs he was shocking last night. his first touch was poor when he did finally get the ball, as he made no fecking effort to try & close any madrid player down!

he plays with his back to the play/ball most of the time, his attitude is a big issue for me at the moment. he really is a big dis-appointment for me, & i think he is becoming a player who is another player out of his depth at LFC. if he really thinks he will get a decent run in the team with displays like last night, then he really is kidding himself. he said he was unhappy at anfield not so long ago-well at the moment i'm unhappy he is at anfield also.

by **tubby** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:05 pm

Jimmy the Weasel wrote:I think Babel has raw talent - but it is very raw, and he needs to work with the manager and coaches to harness it effectively. I think it'll be interesting to see whether he has the 'football intelligence' to be able to do so - at the moment I have my doubts as he seems to make poor decisions at times.

If he's going to play on the left, he needs to work on his left foot. Too often he receives the pass and takes it back where it's come from because he wants to cut inside all the time and that has been a fundamental cause of our lack of width in the past. His reluctance to go down the line seems to stem from a lack of confidence in his ability to deliver a ball into the box - well founded lack of confidence in my opinion.

(I'd like to see more of him on the right hand side personally)

I also think he lacks the cajones at times, doesn't seem to have the stomach for the fight - not prepared to throw himself in where it hurts to score a goal, I saw it on a number of occasions last season with balls into the box where he basically didn't fancy getting clattered.

Start putting those things right and we've got a player I think.

I think the lack of balls is probably down to him always starting on the bench. If Rafa gave him a few more starts his confidence would improve so he would probably give it more of a go.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:08 pm

redhayesy wrote:brilliant team performance last night, apart from when babel came on! he offered nothing up front-keeps stating he is a centre foward, judge me when i play in my favourite position etc, ffs he was shocking last night. his first touch was poor when he did finally get the ball, as he made no fecking effort to try & close any madrid player down!

he plays with his back to the play/ball most of the time, his attitude is a big issue for me at the moment. he really is a big dis-appointment for me, & i think he is becoming a player who is another player out of his depth at LFC. if he really thinks he will get a decent run in the team with displays like last night, then he really is kidding himself. he said he was unhappy at anfield not so long ago-well at the moment i'm unhappy he is at anfield also.

spot on Hayesy absolute waste of space offered nothing im afraid

by **GYBS** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:10 pm

He has really gone downhill at the moment - last season every now and then he looked a player and did some great things - this season he just looks way out off it - not sure if thats confidence in himself or lacking something . think he has all the tools required- pace .power. shooting , skill just cant seem to put it all together on the pitch . shame really as think he time maybe running out .

by **mistyred** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:13 pm

Needs a manager like Wenger to get the best out of him.

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