Liverpool FC Forum

[Fo Dne]

I'd be interested to know if the people who are slagging off Babel support Kuyt, in my opinion Babel is a good player and one which will only get better whereas Kuyt despite a good game on Saturday is unlikely to improve and is at best a decent squad player. A lot of football is about game intelligence and that comes from experience which most 19 years olds don't have too much of. In my opinion it is this expereience which is sometimes lacking for Babel but I see a lot of improvement so far this season.

AGREE totally with this post.

By the way there have been plenty of Premier League players who have improved greatly after that 16-19 age range, such as Lampard, Zamora, Heskey, Ljungberg, Pires, Henry and probably another hundred examples, so people who can't see this are deluded, especially those called Stu.

So what did Lampard improve on then? What did Heskey, Pires and Henry improve on then?

What were they bad at and become better at, to what degree did they improve?

Again, a clueless of a post which has absoloutely no idea about football.

Performing to a system, playing a tactical game, having a manager getting the best of you and a players ability are all very different things. As are confidence, training and learning the game as a player.

[woof woof !]

What I'm saying is Owen didn't become any quicker at 22 than he was at 17. What I'm saying is Kaka was playing in a different continent when he was younger.

Players don't "gain attributes they never have". How many times do I have to say this point? How much evidence do you all need to see the stupidity in what you're saying?
............................................................................

You can't make a great player out of , you can take a great player and get him to play to his strengths and teach him how to play in a system, which improves performance, but you can't make a rubbish player a good one. Anyone who thinks you can,doesn't understand football.

No Stu , thats what you're saying now . Earlier you said and I quote (again)

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

Now I'm not arguing about your opinion of Babels talent or even your statement that "You can't make a great player out of . I do however totally disagree with your original statement that "players hardly improve after 19", the inference being that if they don't already have it they never will, in terms of pure raw talent you may have a point but to suggest that a player (irrespective of their level of talent) won't get better with experience is in my opinion rubbish.

[Fo Dne]

What I'm saying is Owen didn't become any quicker at 22 than he was at 17. What I'm saying is Kaka was playing in a different continent when he was younger.

Players don't "gain attributes they never have". How many times do I have to say this point? How much evidence do you all need to see the stupidity in what you're saying?
............................................................................

You can't make a great player out of , you can take a great player and get him to play to his strengths and teach him how to play in a system, which improves performance, but you can't make a rubbish player a good one. Anyone who thinks you can,doesn't understand football.

No Stu , thats what you're saying now . Earlier you said and I quote (again)

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

Now I'm not arguing about your opinion of Babels talent or even your statement that "You can't make a great player out of . I do however totally disagree with your original statement that "players hardly improve after 19", the inference being that if they don't already have it they never will, in terms of pure raw talent you may have a point but to suggest that a player (irrespective of their level of talent) won't get better with experience is in my opinion rubbish.

Name a player who has?

Players don't become stronger, quicker, more intelligent, improve their touch... etc etc.

They learn how to use what they have, they get played in systems that suit them.

Jamie Carragher's the common example. Still the same player, just played in his natural position over the last few years with a good partner who complimented him in Hyypia and a right back who done the basics right and made his life easier. Carragher's a good player, but not a great one, his confidence and influence over the team improved, but his reading of the game, ability to tackle and mark players and win headers all pretty much stayed the same.

He is now employed in a tatical system which he suits, he's well drilled and he's got players around him which compliment him. That doesn't mean he's improved as an individual player. I remember when he was a kid playing at the back with McAteer, Babb and Matteo you could see how good he was then, just that the others around him made him look bad, he had to much responsibility and no-one to help him use his strengths.

[Paul C]

I'm sorry but some people on here are blind, I swear down, Babel scored one goal against the mancs and people jump on the bandwaggon, he even scuffed the fookin shot, lol

Sell him and get Garcia back

[andy_g]

Name a player who has?

Players don't become stronger, quicker, more intelligent, improve their touch... etc etc.

They learn how to use what they have, they get played in systems that suit them.

Jamie Carragher's the common example. Still the same player, just played in his natural position over the last few years with a good partner who complimented him in Hyypia and a right back who done the basics right and made his life easier. Carragher's a good player, but not a great one, his confidence and influence over the team improved, but his reading of the game, ability to tackle and mark players and win headers all pretty much stayed the same.

He is now employed in a tatical system which he suits, he's well drilled and he's got players around him which compliment him. That doesn't mean he's improved as an individual player. I remember when he was a kid playing at the back with McAteer, Babb and Matteo you could see how good he was then, just that the others around him made him look bad, he had to much responsibility and no-one to help him use his strengths.

come on, stu. i've been trying to go along with your opinions on this for a while but you don't really believe this do you?

a player can't become stronger no matter how much training he does? its proven that just about any other kind of athlete can become stronger and improve their performance so why not a footballer?

a player can't become quicker? why not? is any sprinter born that fast or does training and practice and good coaching have something to do with it aswell? are footballers any different?

a player can't become more intelligent? when just about anybody in any other profession can develop their intelligence for their work why should a footballer be any different?

a player can't improve their touch? then whats the point of practising? why coach them any technical skills at all?

the basic argument that you can't turn a rubbish footballer into a great one is certainly true. but the belief that a footballer will never get better with the correct, guidance, training, coaching, call it whatever you like has got to be rubbish.

[LegBarnes]

He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard).

Putting aside your opinion of Babel for the moment.
Where are your facts to support this particular statement or is it just an idea you plucked out of the air ?

Lets have a look at the last ten winners of the European Footballer of the Year and their age when they won the award.

Kaka aged 25
Cannevaro aged 33
Ronaldinho aged 25
Shevchenko aged 28
Nedved aged 31
Ronaldo aged 26
Owen aged 22
Figo aged 28
Rivaldo aged 27
Zidane aged 26

Funnily enough I don't see one winner between the age of 16-19. Are you seriously suggesting that all of the above reached their best when in their teens and hardly improved at all once they passed the age of 19 ?

Christ Stu, at times you do spout some tripe, and you still have the nerve to say "This board is getting worse by the day".

,

I have to agree to say you stop learning at 19 is a very stupid thing to say if that was case why would my mother had gone to uni at 40 years old and got a degree man I think I should have took her out to the yard and put a bullet in her head there is no hope for her  .

Ian Wright didn't start to play pro fooball till the age of 22 now if that isn't a direct statement for you woof I dunno what is.

Thing is with babel he has moved to england which is stressful , whole new team , new manager , new style of football to learn , new postion to learn and more demands of his manager to fulfill , all at the age of 20 thats alot for any one to deal with.

I mean even the great ronaldo couldn't perform to his best first 2 seasons , I think peope take it for granted about Torres we was blessed to have a player like him come who could perform right away and now we exspect every player to fit right in and have no problems.

I mean we need to wake up and think about it babel has shown steady progress for the time he has had to play , he has had great players come out and say he has all the tools to become a great player , rafa seen this also , he is 21 so he has at least 12 years left of prime time  .

So come on lets just suport him who knows some thing crazy might happen he might get some more confidence and start to change your mind ( if you can keep an open mind that is).

[RedBlood]

Stu always talks s.hit i persumed every1 else knew this by now

[7_Kewell]

^  What the hell's so funny Dne?  He scored 10 goals for us last season and he wasn't even a regular.  Babel may not be a great header of the ball like Ronaldo, but he's on the same level when it comes to dribbling and finishing.

Are you having a laugh, the lad is when it comes to goin past someone, even the right back for Havent & Waterlooville last season had Babel in his back pocket!! he loses the ball far too easily and his passin is as bad as Traore's was, the fact of the matter is we paid £11m for him and even though he is young his fundamentals are lacking and if he doesnt start to improve then I think he'll be sold next season, problem being is that we'd lose a lot of money on him, if someone made a bit of £8m then I think Rafa would get rid!

He should stick to dodgy rap videos 

Damn, am I the only one that has seen vast improvement in Babel's game this season?  I watched him rip Manure and Mairselle defenders new , but yet you say that he can't beat defenders?  I think that I'll just quit posting in this thread because some posters clearly have something against this guy.

He done ok against United, so what?

What about every other game this season where he's been absoloutely awful. Especially Crewe the other week... where he played in his "supposedly favoured position". As for ripping Marseille a new , you've got to be joking lad. His contribution to the game was very minimal.

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

He's also nowhere near the same class of player as Luis Garcia who had a brain and flair and could score important goals on a regular basis against anyone.

as much as it pains me to agree with stu....i have to say i'm with him on this one.  I've felt this way since last xmas, when it became obvious that Babel wasn't very good. Poor technique, poor dribbling and godawful awareness.  His goal against the scum was a fluke and on another day it would have bounced right over the goal.

Babel reminds me of Cisse and for 11 million i think he's one of Rafa's worst signings.  I'd sell ASAP while everyone else thinks he's good...get our money back and try again.

[Fo Dne]

Name a player who has?

Players don't become stronger, quicker, more intelligent, improve their touch... etc etc.

They learn how to use what they have, they get played in systems that suit them.

Jamie Carragher's the common example. Still the same player, just played in his natural position over the last few years with a good partner who complimented him in Hyypia and a right back who done the basics right and made his life easier. Carragher's a good player, but not a great one, his confidence and influence over the team improved, but his reading of the game, ability to tackle and mark players and win headers all pretty much stayed the same.

He is now employed in a tatical system which he suits, he's well drilled and he's got players around him which compliment him. That doesn't mean he's improved as an individual player. I remember when he was a kid playing at the back with McAteer, Babb and Matteo you could see how good he was then, just that the others around him made him look bad, he had to much responsibility and no-one to help him use his strengths.

come on, stu. i've been trying to go along with your opinions on this for a while but you don't really believe this do you?

a player can't become stronger no matter how much training he does? its proven that just about any other kind of athlete can become stronger and improve their performance so why not a footballer?

a player can't become quicker? why not? is any sprinter born that fast or does training and practice and good coaching have something to do with it aswell? are footballers any different?

a player can't become more intelligent? when just about anybody in any other profession can develop their intelligence for their work why should a footballer be any different?

a player can't improve their touch? then whats the point of practising? why coach them any technical skills at all?

the basic argument that you can't turn a rubbish footballer into a great one is certainly true. but the belief that a footballer will never get better with the correct, guidance, training, coaching, call it whatever you like has got to be rubbish.

Name them.

Like i said, in rare circumstances, (Ronaldo, Gerrard) the develope physically, they grow but name me a player who was bad at something then become good at it. If players can do it, why didn't Sami work on his pace then become one of the best centre halfs to have graced the game?

Don't you see it lad? Players always work on there weaknesses, every player has a weakness, none of them ever change.

Name a player in the world who's gone from being rubbish at something to good. Or even competant.

[Fo Dne]

^  What the hell's so funny Dne?  He scored 10 goals for us last season and he wasn't even a regular.  Babel may not be a great header of the ball like Ronaldo, but he's on the same level when it comes to dribbling and finishing.

Are you having a laugh, the lad is when it comes to goin past someone, even the right back for Havent & Waterlooville last season had Babel in his back pocket!! he loses the ball far too easily and his passin is as bad as Traore's was, the fact of the matter is we paid £11m for him and even though he is young his fundamentals are lacking and if he doesnt start to improve then I think he'll be sold next season, problem being is that we'd lose a lot of money on him, if someone made a bit of £8m then I think Rafa would get rid!

He should stick to dodgy rap videos 

Damn, am I the only one that has seen vast improvement in Babel's game this season?  I watched him rip Manure and Mairselle defenders new , but yet you say that he can't beat defenders?  I think that I'll just quit posting in this thread because some posters clearly have something against this guy.

He done ok against United, so what?

What about every other game this season where he's been absoloutely awful. Especially Crewe the other week... where he played in his "supposedly favoured position". As for ripping Marseille a new , you've got to be joking lad. His contribution to the game was very minimal.

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

He's also nowhere near the same class of player as Luis Garcia who had a brain and flair and could score important goals on a regular basis against anyone.

as much as it pains me to agree with stu....i have to say i'm with him on this one.  I've felt this way since last xmas, when it became obvious that Babel wasn't very good. Poor technique, poor dribbling and godawful awareness.  His goal against the scum was a fluke and on another day it would have bounced right over the goal.

Babel reminds me of Cisse and for 11 million i think he's one of Rafa's worst signings.  I'd sell ASAP while everyone else thinks he's good...get our money back and try again.

Cisse is the perfect comparrison, the exact same situation, over paid, over rated, nowhere near good enough and exactly the same level of player.

Cisse scored 19 goals in a season remember while being played out of position... did you think he was good enough aswell?

[Ciggy]

Well if he doesnt make it as a footballer hes always got this to fall back on

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JkNboKZFDP0

Rappen is my hobby
Rappers dont want trouble
I'm the Liverpool-star those bitches are giving me Love
I know what time it is, I've just buy a new watch
I give you a punshline, 8 seconds, you are knocked down
Towel in the (box)ring, My family in the V.I.P
No Kaviaar for us, Surinamers eat chicken
Ya'll no nothing, this is the Premier League
Represeting the G
Yo can see this nigga with number 19
Ya'll can off, I witch a whole team
Ya'll can talk but you dont get anything with it
Ya'll can't be like me, my status is to high
If rappers come to close I have to take space
People watch Youtube to learn my actions
I have those skills, try some tricks I was a poor nigga
Now I make Money
I went from the Euro to the English Pound
I put money in my pocket, now I spend money on nothing
I Like it this way, I'm sure you like it
If somebody want beef, well come on
I like it with some pepper, homie I'm sure in my life
Give me the ball, you loose booth legs
And now my competition is past
If you hate me because of that, I say your right
If I was you I will hate myself too, I have the homie
I even cant spend al my money
Keep your daughter insite or you will be my family
I take your daughter and let her make clean
101 Barz, this is the first time but I came hard!
I came alone, I don''t have a back-up
I came because I mean it, Check It

[JC_81]

Babel rapping = s.h.i.t

[NANNY RED]

Hes got more bottle singing that than what hes got on the pitch

[Yessicajax]

Babel rapping = s.h.i.t

Ciggy you can translate this one..

RIO (Ryan Babel) 

babel rap at ajax openday

[jonny.]

Performing to a system, playing a tactical game, having a manager getting the best of you and a players ability are all very different things. As are confidence, training and learning the game as a player.

Thats the point, player improvement doesn't have to come from the development of natural ability alone