Liverpool FC Forum

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:46 pm

GYBS wrote:why close the forum ?

I think he was taking the :censored:

mate - you know, if Rafa's is the only opinion that matters, why bother discussing alternatives?

by **GYBS** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:48 pm

we can discuss what our opinions are all day mate but the one that matters for the team is Rafas at the end of the the day wether we agree on it or not and he got the track record to back up his opinions .

by **Yooj Bigullz** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:05 pm

GYBS wrote:Kuyt being the prime example . the guy isnt world class neither is he as as what people make out - he is a just a decent squad player who continues to come up with the goods for us. He prb shouldnt be starting every game for us but at the moment we have no better to replace him .

Not true. Gerrard can play on the right, has done before, influenced games and scored loads of goals

Now Rafa has grown some balls and wants two up front this could be a viable option

by **Alonso14** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:21 pm

What were peoples opinions on Cristiano Ronaldo in his first couple of seasons with United? I actually thought he was still a fairly good player. He had a great touch and magnificent skill and this only got better. However he had fairly poor decision making skills and he lacked game intelligence. I felt he could become a really good player but never imagined he could become what he has now. However saying this I still feel he lacks decision making skills and intelligence. Countless times I've seen him not slip a little reverse ball in behind, much to the disappointment of the striker, but because he has so much pace and skill he can just go on and finish the job himself and all is forgiven.

I by no means compare Babel to Ronaldo. But as we all know you there certain attributes such as game intelligence that you are simply born with or without and there is no real way to improve this, certainly after the player is past the age of 16/17 or so.

My question is can Babel still become a good player without game awareness, improving his consistency and simply rely on his already blistering pace, power, good shot and quick feet?

by **kunilson** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:36 pm

Alonso14 wrote:What were peoples opinions on Cristiano Ronaldo in his first couple of seasons with United? I actually thought he was still a fairly good player. He had a great touch and magnificent skill and this only got better. However he had fairly poor decision making skills and he lacked game intelligence. I felt he could become a really good player but never imagined he could become what he has now. However saying this I still feel he lacks decision making skills and intelligence. Countless times I've seen him not slip a little reverse ball in behind, much to the disappointment of the striker, but because he has so much pace and skill he can just go on and finish the job himself and all is forgiven.

I by no means compare Babel to Ronaldo. But as we all know you there certain attributes such as game intelligence that you are simply born with or without and there is no real way to improve this, certainly after the player is past the age of 16/17 or so.

My question is can Babel still become a good player without game awareness, improving his consistency and simply rely on his already blistering pace, power, good shot and quick feet?

yes.

by **Yessicajax** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:38 pm

so...do you guys already have a song for babel?

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:56 pm

personally, I just don't know what the fuss about Babel is all about. He is a TERRIBLE winger.. often tripping over the ball, poor decision making and very rarelymanages to cross a ball into the box.

However, he does score a fair few goals. The problem for me is Rafa is playing him in the wrong position.

Now we have Reira, who looks like a proper winger, lets get Babel playing up front...

although with nando and 20 million Keane, will he get a look in there?? doupt it.

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:14 pm

Personally i'd love to see him play right-wing against Stoke instead of Dirk and let him run at there left back, have Riera skinning Andy Griffin on the left and we'll be laughing.

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:24 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

Well first of I did watch the game so i know the chances in fact I watched game 3 times now.

2nd of all the 2nd chance you speak of with benny he couldn't score that keep made up to much ground and got hand in way if he had hit the ball softer his foot would have taken longer to reacht he ball and keep would have had time to grab the ball.

As for you not liking strikers who hit ball with power , since when has it been down to a pans personal pref , how the hell out players hit the ball.

I mean wtf You wanna tell the player how to run next or you don't like how they move foot to the right when they do step overs maybe you like them to move the ball to the left before.

Or maybe you don't like they cross the ball to flat you want more air , basicly they play how they play end of story.

As long as he carrys on to improve I could care how he plays its his style , I personal think his style will be very effective once he nails it.

So the chance from Rieira's cross he couldn't have done better? He couldn't have opened his body up? He couldn't have slotted it? He couldn't have took another touch or sold the keeper a dummy? He couldn't have adjusted his body position?

He done the only thing possible did he?

Absoloute rubbish.

He missed a sitter and thats the end of it.

Classic clueless comment I watched game 3 times now nothing else he could of done.

Not even robbie fowler would have scored that in fact he wouldn't have even got on end of it so please stfu.

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Fo Dne listen to the highlights on this video at how real ex players feel about babel and stop living in a dream world where you lack of knowlage shows about players.

http://www.eplmatches.com/index.p....hlights

by **LegBarnes** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:44 pm

Scouting reportScouting report
Steve Claridge The Guardian, Tuesday July 3 2007 Article history

When Thierry Henry left Arsenal there were more than a few eyes looking across to Holland at this 20-year-old striker as a potential replacement. I watched him in Holland's 2-1 win over Portugal in the European Under-21 Championship last month and I found him a bit of an enigma. He is a big, strong, forceful player in the mould of a young Kevin Campbell - yet he just loves to come short for the ball. He almost moved into a midfield role rather than what you might expect, which would be playing high up, against his defender.

However, in Maceo Rigters (who ended up with the tournament's Golden Boot) he had a willing strike partner who could stretch defences over the top with his pace, meaning opponents were reluctant to come forward and play a high line. That allowed Babel to exploit the space between midfield and the opposition defence.

Babel has a very good awareness of what is around him when he does receive the ball, which is important because you need almost peripheral vision in this area of the pitch. Against Portugal this, allied with a good first touch and strength on the ball even when closed down, meant he was able to hold off his opponent. There was a nice balance to his game with regard to when to run at people and when to release a team-mate. His success at this led to Holland's first goal: Babel received the ball and immediately got his head up to play Rigters in with a perfectly weighted pass between the centre-back and full-back. Rigters was brought down and Babel showed he is not short on confidence by stepping up and scoring the penalty.

Babel not only combined well with his fellow centre-forward but also picked the ball up wide and deep, playing either winger in with passes good enough to take their full-back out of play. Although this is his preferred way of playing, when he did push forward to a more advanced position he proved a willing runner, particularly into channels, and pulled away for the diagonal ball extremely well. One or two parts of his game made me realise why he likes to play the way he does: his hold-up play and battling qualities in the air fell a little short of what I imagined for someone of his build and strength.

Scouted by Ajax at the age of 11, he has obviously benefited by his time at the club since then. He became Holland's youngest scorer for 68 years with a goal on his full international debut, against Romania in 2005, and scored twice on the way to the last eight of the Under-20 World Cup the same year. This is a player born to play in the modern game, with all the physical attributes needed at the highest level. But the difference from players of a similar physical development at such a young age is that mentally he will not be found wanting, which can happen all too often.

Babel would be no direct replacement for Henry; if he were to join Arsenal, this season or next, I could see him in a Dennis Bergkamp-type role, dropping off a bit. He has a similar stature to Bergkamp. He needs to play alongside someone with pace, who will frighten the opposition defence so that they do not step up; this will create a hole for him to play in.

Age 20

Born Amsterdam

Position Forward

Height 6ft 1in

Weight 12st 6lb

From Ajax

Pace 8/10

Awareness 9/10

Heading 7/10

Attitude 8/10

Tackling 7/10

Passing 9/10

Team responsibility 9/10

Valuation £5m-7m

why is it that so many of you can't see what so many others do.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/jul/03/sport.comment2

Now I know this was a while back but remember this was vrs lads his own age the best of what is to come.

Now he has taken a big step into the big boys league but remember consistency takes time to foster.

Nothing in football comes easy and its only a matter of time i feel will we start to see him ripping defences apart in prem.

He is just getting used to not only the pace in this league but also the class aspect , We have seen moments of pure class with babel also moments of stupidness but is that not how all players learn from there mistakes ?

So a level of maturity is needed I feel to look at the bigger picture with babel leave him alone back him in ever corner and I know we will be rewarded with a fine footballer , as he hits his 23rd birthday as this is the age most players hit conistent peak.

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:44 am

LegBarnes wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

Well first of I did watch the game so i know the chances in fact I watched game 3 times now.

2nd of all the 2nd chance you speak of with benny he couldn't score that keep made up to much ground and got hand in way if he had hit the ball softer his foot would have taken longer to reacht he ball and keep would have had time to grab the ball.

As for you not liking strikers who hit ball with power , since when has it been down to a pans personal pref , how the hell out players hit the ball.

I mean wtf You wanna tell the player how to run next or you don't like how they move foot to the right when they do step overs maybe you like them to move the ball to the left before.

Or maybe you don't like they cross the ball to flat you want more air , basicly they play how they play end of story.

As long as he carrys on to improve I could care how he plays its his style , I personal think his style will be very effective once he nails it.

So the chance from Rieira's cross he couldn't have done better? He couldn't have opened his body up? He couldn't have slotted it? He couldn't have took another touch or sold the keeper a dummy? He couldn't have adjusted his body position?

He done the only thing possible did he?

Absoloute rubbish.

He missed a sitter and thats the end of it.

Classic clueless comment I watched game 3 times now nothing else he could of done.

Not even robbie fowler would have scored that in fact he wouldn't have even got on end of it so please stfu.

Not even Fowler would have scored from a cross from five yards out?

:laugh:

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:01 am

LegBarnes wrote:Age 20

Born Amsterdam

Position Forward

Height 6ft 1in

Weight 12st 6lb

From Ajax

Pace 8/10

Awareness 9/10

Heading 7/10

Attitude 8/10

Tackling 7/10

Passing 9/10

Team responsibility 9/10

Valuation £5m-7m

why is it that so many of you can't see what so many others do.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/jul/03/sport.comment2

Now I know this was a while back but remember this was vrs lads his own age the best of what is to come.

Now he has taken a big step into the big boys league but remember consistency takes time to foster.

Nothing in football comes easy and its only a matter of time i feel will we start to see him ripping defences apart in prem.

He is just getting used to not only the pace in this league but also the class aspect , We have seen moments of pure class with babel also moments of stupidness but is that not how all players learn from there mistakes ?

So a level of maturity is needed I feel to look at the bigger picture with babel leave him alone back him in ever corner and I know we will be rewarded with a fine footballer , as he hits his 23rd birthday as this is the age most players hit conistent peak.

8/10 for pace, yeah I could go with that, he's no Henry but he's no Kuyt either, fairly quick.

9/10 for awareness? :laugh:

If awareness is running down blind alley's, not playing the pass at the correct time, not spotting the pass and generally running into opponents and falling over than trying to run around them or passed them then yeah... If he's got 9/10 for Awareness what would you give Scholes for example? 10? So you'd say the likes of Scholes and Zidane are only slightly more aware of whats around them than Babel? :laugh:

7/10 for heading? So lets say you'd give Sami a 10, Fowler a 9 at his best, Torres an 8 and Owen a 7 (who scores his fair share in the air). You're telling me he's slightly worse than Torres and Fowler in the air and as good as Owen? hahahaha

8/10 for attitude? What pulling out of every tackle? Pulling out of every header? Never tracking a man and shooting when players are in better positions and an 8 for attitude? This is just getting silly.

Tackling 7? Lets say Carragher an Gerrard are a 10. Then you'd say maybe Skrtel is a 9. Then Alonso an 8 and Finnan and Riise 7, you're telling me he can tackle like Finnan and Riise and only slightly worse than Alonso? Unbelievable.

Passing 9/10. Alonso 10/10, Gerrard 9/10... Babel equal to Gerrard in this aspect, Babel even close to Gerrard? :laugh:

Light years away...

Yes, that post definately adds validity to your claims.

Complete and utter rubbish player and you're to stupid and clueless to see it, he can't even get in the side. Lets face it, if he was so good we wouldn't have had to spend £10m on a left winger... before you start with the striker excuse either (he's never a striker by the way) we wouldn't have spend £20m on Keane, he can't even get a game on the right for :censored:

sake...

Thats the three positions people claim he can play, he can't even get a game...

Obviously a top class player, right up there with Torres. :laugh:

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:29 am

Fo Dne wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Age 20

Born Amsterdam

Position Forward

Height 6ft 1in

Weight 12st 6lb

From Ajax

Pace 8/10

Awareness 9/10

Heading 7/10

Attitude 8/10

Tackling 7/10

Passing 9/10

Team responsibility 9/10

Valuation £5m-7m

why is it that so many of you can't see what so many others do.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/jul/03/sport.comment2

Now I know this was a while back but remember this was vrs lads his own age the best of what is to come.

Now he has taken a big step into the big boys league but remember consistency takes time to foster.

Nothing in football comes easy and its only a matter of time i feel will we start to see him ripping defences apart in prem.

He is just getting used to not only the pace in this league but also the class aspect , We have seen moments of pure class with babel also moments of stupidness but is that not how all players learn from there mistakes ?

So a level of maturity is needed I feel to look at the bigger picture with babel leave him alone back him in ever corner and I know we will be rewarded with a fine footballer , as he hits his 23rd birthday as this is the age most players hit conistent peak.

8/10 for pace, yeah I could go with that, he's no Henry but he's no Kuyt either, fairly quick.

9/10 for awareness? If awareness is running down blind alley's, not playing the pass at the correct time, not spotting the pass and generally running into opponents and falling over than trying to run around them or passed them then yeah... If he's got 9/10 for Awareness what would you give Scholes for example? 10? So you'd say the likes of Scholes and Zidane are only slightly more aware of whats around them than Babel?

7/10 for heading? So lets say you'd give Sami a 10, Fowler a 9 at his best, Torres an 8 and Owen a 7 (who scores his fair share in the air). You're telling me he's slightly worse than Torres and Fowler in the air and as good as Owen? hahahaha

8/10 for attitude? What pulling out of every tackle? Pulling out of every header? Never tracking a man and shooting when players are in better positions and an 8 for attitude? This is just getting silly.

Tackling 7? Lets say Carragher an Gerrard are a 10. Then you'd say maybe Skrtel is a 9. Then Alonso an 8 and Finnan and Riise 7, you're telling me he can tackle like Finnan and Riise and only slightly worse than Alonso? Unbelievable.

Passing 9/10. Alonso 10/10, Gerrard 9/10... Babel equal to Gerrard in this aspect, Babel even close to Gerrard? Light years away...

Yes, that post definately adds validity to your claims.

Complete and utter rubbish player and you're to stupid and clueless to see it, he can't even get in the side. Lets face it, if he was so good we wouldn't have had to spend £10m on a left winger... before you start with the striker excuse either (he's never a striker by the way) we wouldn't have spend £20m on Keane, he can't even get a game on the right for sake...

Thats the three positions people claim he can play, he can't even get a game...

Obviously a top class player, right up there with Torres.

shows how much you read it don't it It isn't my review of him its a ex pro player.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:11 am

Sorry LB...like Stu I find those attribute ratings well over the top...particularly the awareness one. As for him playing the Bergkamp role...well the less said about that the better. :no

IMO, he's got raw talent, the best is undoubtedly still to come but he's got a long way to go on the mental side of things before he can be considered a top footballer. I think he's got a role to play for us but whether he'll grow to become a world beater is something I still have strong doubts about.

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