Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:46 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:The manager has nothing to apologise for mick , he lives or dies by his decisions .

Not asking for an apology Igor, just a plain "it was a tactical decision" would have done. Maybe "Stevie has played a lot of games in a short time, we have many big gmaes coming up" would have done the trick. The heads and hearts thing though was extremely ill-advised, and I challenge anyone to think of a scenario where if they were the captain in that situation they wouldn't feel angered by the boss's words.

Saying it in the confines of the dressing room would have been bad enough, but to the media was in extreme bad taste and lacked a bit of class if I'm honest.

by **Ace Ventura** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:46 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:yes we won....but that was DESPITE RAFA

You have already clearly tied your colours to the mast in terms of wether you like Rafa or not, but thats one strange quote that mate.

Has peewee robbed your log in Ace or what ?

No Leon he hasnt and my colours at this moment are with the manager but getting more and more disallusioned...which seems like a bizarre statement after winning a derby at goodison.
The fact is though, after the first 15 minutes we were poor, Lescott kept getting the ball and was in acres due to Rafa's tactics. It was clearly not working and should of been addressed, it wasnt...we managed to get in at half time, things should of been changed then...nothing, typical.
We then get a goal out of nothing from our captain...due mostly to poor defending from Hibbert (who yes should of been sent off) so great we are back in it...starting to look a threat and like we may win, then lets take our best player off. Now there is two reasons why that is a joke 1) he is our best player, was playing well and the most likely person to commit men and cause problems.
2) the effect it then has on the home team, our team..the fans and the whole atmosphere.
We seemed to sit back...and looked happy with the draw, Everton started pressing and the fans seemed right back up for it, it was like gaining the initiative and then handing it straight back.
Anyone who cant see that is either blind or lying...its as straight forward as that.
Yes Lucas created the winner and looked great, but he could of come on for Sissoko and allowed us to keep our biggest threat on the pitch.
Maybe Stevie wasnt following rafa's instructions and thats why he was dragged off...if thats the case why not tell the truth in the aftermatch interview because Rafas explanation was not only a blatant lie but also far more harmful and disrespectful.
I cant believe that any Liverpool fan can hand on heart say we won that game because of the manager, Everton where there for the taking once they went down to 10, Rafa disrupted things with his ridiculous substitution...then we got of jail, simple as that.

If peewee is saying the same, then we are singing from the same hymn sheet, rafa needs to stop trying to be so clever and most of all stop gambling.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:53 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:yes we won....but that was DESPITE RAFA

You have already clearly tied your colours to the mast in terms of wether you like Rafa or not, but thats one strange quote that mate.

Has peewee robbed your log in Ace or what ?

No Leon he hasnt and my colours at this moment are with the manager but getting more and more disallusioned...which seems like a bizarre statement after winning a derby at goodison.
The fact is though, after the first 15 minutes we were poor, Lescott kept getting the ball and was in acres due to Rafa's tactics. It was clearly not working and should of been addressed, it wasnt...we managed to get in at half time, things should of been changed then...nothing, typical.
We then get a goal out of nothing from our captain...due mostly to poor defending from Hibbert (who yes should of been sent off) so great we are back in it...starting to look a threat and like we may win, then lets take our best player off. Now there is two reasons why that is a joke 1) he is our best player, was playing well and the most likely person to commit men and cause problems.
2) the effect it then has on the home team, our team..the fans and the whole atmosphere.
We seemed to sit back...and looked happy with the draw, Everton started pressing and the fans seemed right back up for it, it was like gaining the initiative and then handing it straight back.
Anyone who cant see that is either blind or lying...its as straight forward as that.
Yes Lucas created the winner and looked great, but he could of come on for Sissoko and allowed us to keep our biggest threat on the pitch.
Maybe Stevie wasnt following rafa's instructions and thats why he was dragged off...if thats the case why not tell the truth in the aftermatch interview because Rafas explanation was not only a blatant lie but also far more harmful and disrespectful.
I cant believe that any Liverpool fan can hand on heart say we won that game because of the manager, Everton where there for the taking once they went down to 10, Rafa disrupted things with his ridiculous substitution...then we got of jail, simple as that.

If peewee is saying the same, then we are singing from the same hymn sheet, rafa needs to stop trying to be so clever and most of all stop gambling.

Dunno what game you where watching mate, but it cant have been the one I was at.

Gerrard went off and we started getting behind their back four.

Momo, Riise, Kuyt and Voronin all had at least one good chance each after the change.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:53 pm

Bitters on Bluekipper saying some of our fans got battered in their end one lad got beat up by about 50 of them dead hard them like arnt they?
As he was getting carted out by the steward some young girl shouted you should have died with the other 96 kunts you tw@t :no

And people are complaining on here in the manner we won?
Even before kick off the babys not yours from them horrible mongrel b@stards imagine how their players feel when they dont have one song sang about them? Just about our manager, players and fans?
Must be great to play for them :Oo:

Knicked from TaffyWeb.

So the small club welcomed the team who UEFA declared had officially 'the worst supporters in Europe' for the first time since the fat Spanish waiter made his statement. It was well over a year since we had conceded a goal, let alone lost, against the shi.te so spirits were high.

Spirits were high all right; it was four large snifters in the BK lounge as we left for the game to settle that sick feeling which you get in your stomach on every derby day morning. We also had a sick feeling when the team was announced – no Bainesy, The Jag in midfield and the King of Scotland on the bench – had Moyesy been on the Stella?

Now being a bit of a sado, I follow the form of refs. When I eventually got into the ground (there must have been two thousand outside at kick off) I asked me lad who the ref was and he told me it was MARK CLATTENBURG. Now before we go any further, I hate it when teams lose and the fans blame the ref, so I won't blame him, I'll just say that he is a cheating redshite biased :censored:

. In the first half he had his arm around both 'kill your speed' Finnan and ' I'd die for my country' Carra, his arm around them in a sort of matey, your all right today lads', 'see you in the bath later'!

This game was all about the ref. Moyesy's side played their hearts out, The Yak had his best game yet, The Jag followed the bloke, who nearly broke Gary Naysmith's leg without getting sent off, all over the pitch, and Stubbsy showed what it really means to someone born outside of the Liverpool boundary to play in a derby.

The :censored:

started brightly and Tim pulled of a good save from the Ukrainian bloke they have up front. You know the one? Under every pony tail there is an :censored:

!

But as I said, this one was all about the ref. We went in one up at half time, courtesy of the best own goal you are ever likely to see. It has taken 37 years to rid those Sandy Brown demons, but Hyppia did it in style. Same Park End, a half volley into the top right hand corner, with Reinna rooted, the was no 'glass, bottle, bottle, glass' this time. One Up and the place went mental.

Half Time: Everton 1 shi.te 0

Now when we go one up in a derby we think, well at least we've got a draw. Not this time. When we were half way down the stairs, the talk was of who sung 'Half way to Paradise'? It was a Billy Fury moment. We thought that they had nothing up front, that the bloke from the kibutz was their most dangerous player but that we were holding out well and deserved to be in front.

Then came the second half and MARK CLATTENBURG.

There were a few key moments. Firstly the equaliser. This came from our corner! Tony Hibbert (who now has some serious questions being asked about him) decided not to go for the clearance from the corner and instead try to out run the bloke who is unsure whether the baby is his or not. Tony, who was also born outside of the Liverpool boundary, tackled him just outside the box, or at least attempted at tackle. He tried to remove his shirt. The momentum took them into the box, up stepped the ref and gave a pen. He pulled out a yellow card until the leg breaker told him it should be red and Hibbo was off. Tony needs a big season if he is to stay with us, in his locker he has pace and can tackle, he didn't deliver and took the long walk, not for the first time.

Up stepped the bloke with the melted face, he sent Tim the wrong way and it was all square.

Now quite how the bloke with melted face stayed on the pitch was amazing. Any other ref would have sent him off following the worst tackle ever seen. Cheese face went in two footed, off the ground, knees bent, Kung Fu style, on Phil Neville. Only that Nev is a true pro and not a foreigner did the Dutch :censored:

stay on. The closest I've seen to a tackle like this was when Cantona tackled that bloke in the crowd at Palace. Anyway, the ref showed yellow instead of red.

Give Moyesy his due, rightly or wrongly, he went with two up front when we had 10 men. We were weak in midfield, particularly The Jag, but we were going for the jugular.

It went to the wire. The :censored:

substituted a bewildered captain and brought on Bjorn Borg but it was decided in injury time. After yet another shi.te attack and Tim pulling off a couple of saves, Nev dived and saved one handed on the line, Tim would have been proud. Penalty. Nev off, nine men. And the bloke off the Peter Gabriel album cover, who should not have even been on the pitch, stepped up and only just, scored a second.

Then more controversy. Having turned down an earlier penalty appeal when 'kill your speed' tried to tell Roger he loved him with a hug in the box, the next one was down to the bloke who will not be at The Cenotaph on Rememberance Day. The bloke who declared in the redshite Echo on Friday that it was more important beating Everton than winning the European Cup, wrestled Roger to the ground again in the box. Now when I say wrestled, it was a judo throw, but yes, you guessed it, play on! Final whistle, all over.

We were gutted. We did not deserve this. But hey, we are Toffeemen. The shi.te do not beat Chelsea and a ref (Rob Styles actually – told you I was a ref sado) got suspended, will CLATTENBURG? I doubt it, not until we join G14!

My Bluekipper Star Man goes to Ozzy, and I'm not his biggest fan. He played really well, never shirked and was always looking to take it to the shi.te. There were plenty of contenders, Tim, Roger, Joey and Stubbsy included. The day though belong to the ref and just watch, rock all will happen. COYB FTRS.

Full Time: Everton 1 shi.te 2
Bjorn Borg

What a knob fancy giving them knicknames to your players :laugh:

I dont give a feck how we won yesterday we beat this shower that is all.

by **Ace Ventura** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:17 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Dunno what game you where watching mate, but it cant have been the one I was at.

Gerrard went off and we started getting behind their back four.

Momo, Riise, Kuyt and Voronin all had at least one good chance each after the change.

The same one. We did create chances as you would expect with them being down to 10, but if you actually believe that was due to Gerrard coming off then i am amazed.
Do you know what Leon, we have been through this with the rotation and i feel this is sort of similar, you can defend Rafa because of the win...like the rotation because of rafas track record. BUT can you hand on heart say you think that taking Gerrard off was a good idea..and that keeping Sissoko on was fair enough ?
Do you honestly believe that tactics team selection and substitions were great yesterday ?
People are saying yes we won he got it right etc, i honestly believe you are burying your heads. We were poor and sneaked a win. Murphy yes that is even better when we meet our fellow blues in work..or at the pub so we can wind them up and that. But what would be better for usis if we actually performed well and started looking like we were picking up. We didnt and the manager has given me more worries than positive feelings.

by **username** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:10 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:No Leon he hasnt and my colours at this moment are with the manager but getting more and more disallusioned...which seems like a bizarre statement after winning a derby at goodison.
The fact is though, after the first 15 minutes we were poor, Lescott kept getting the ball and was in acres due to Rafa's tactics. It was clearly not working and should of been addressed, it wasnt...we managed to get in at half time, things should of been changed then...nothing, typical.
We then get a goal out of nothing from our captain...due mostly to poor defending from Hibbert (who yes should of been sent off) so great we are back in it...starting to look a threat and like we may win, then lets take our best player off. Now there is two reasons why that is a joke 1) he is our best player, was playing well and the most likely person to commit men and cause problems.
2) the effect it then has on the home team, our team..the fans and the whole atmosphere.
We seemed to sit back...and looked happy with the draw, Everton started pressing and the fans seemed right back up for it, it was like gaining the initiative and then handing it straight back.
Anyone who cant see that is either blind or lying...its as straight forward as that.
Yes Lucas created the winner and looked great, but he could of come on for Sissoko and allowed us to keep our biggest threat on the pitch.
Maybe Stevie wasnt following rafa's instructions and thats why he was dragged off...if thats the case why not tell the truth in the aftermatch interview because Rafas explanation was not only a blatant lie but also far more harmful and disrespectful.
I cant believe that any Liverpool fan can hand on heart say we won that game because of the manager, Everton where there for the taking once they went down to 10, Rafa disrupted things with his ridiculous substitution...then we got of jail, simple as that.

If peewee is saying the same, then we are singing from the same hymn sheet, rafa needs to stop trying to be so clever and most of all stop gambling.

it wasnt poor defending from Hibbert that lead to Gerrards run on goal (was his own fault for getting sent off) but lescott was didnt follow Gerrard and was jogging back when Gerrard was already behind the defence. When Gerrard went off we do make good attacks, momo had a sitter while Voronin only had to do a simple pass to set up a goal. These were some of the best chances we made, and the pen came from shots on goal when we were left with a open goal that was finished by the player that came on for Gerrard (well, if not for the handball).

harmful and disrespectful? Rafa never talks straight, if he did, there would be less against him. Playing with your heart and not you brain can easily mean "wasnt following rafa's instructions and thats why he was dragged off". If he is desiprate to win it could cloud his judgement, only seeing the route to goal not a way to keep the ball, which is the best way to tire down 10 men.

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:21 pm

Well, I'll revert back to my first post before the game kicked off. Usually I'd give my prediction on how the game will go, or the scoreline or whatnot. I stated that I didn't have a good feeling about the game at all, when most people always predict a 2-0 (It's always a 2 or 3 nil. We never concede:D ) but I was the usual pessimist self.

I said how I didn't care how we'd win, be it an OG from Stubbs (shame it had to be Sami and against us ironically) or a pen. Turns out we got two. I knew this match would be decided by a massive slice of old fashioned luck in the end, or by controversial methods, considering our form of late. I was proved right, so I'm not really complaining. Three valuable points in the bag, so now I can worry about the Arsenal game. We get three there and we're laughing, and all of a sudden the title charge is on again, and the doom and gloom mongers silenced until at least the next time we draw...or lose. It's crazy that this has yet to happen, and yet we're viewed as a bad team with a bad manager. Rafa went a bit spare yesterday, admittedly imo, but then again he's entitled to now and again, just as long as it all doesn't go pear shaped.

Roll on to Turkey, and then the real test that is Arsenal. I'm looking forward to it. So should everyone else.

Oh, and I don't think anyone mentioned, but kudos to Redknapp for predicting the 2-1 yesterday.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:41 am

Rafa's comment on why Gerrard and not Sissoko was taken off :- Benitez risked alienating public opinion further with his account of why the error-prone midfielder was allowed to stay on. "Momo did a fantastic job," he claimed. (Daily Mail)

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:58 am

s@int wrote:Rafa's comment on why Gerrard and not Sissoko was taken off :- Benitez risked alienating public opinion further with his account of why the error-prone midfielder was allowed to stay on. "Momo did a fantastic job," he claimed. (Daily Mail)

god, that made me laugh if not anything else. :laugh:

by **JohnBull** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:09 am

Does anyone here think that Gerrard was following Raffas instructions all those times he's charged up the pitch and got us out of jail in all the various cup ties/finals ?

Does anyone really think that a manager has ANY influence on the game, other than subs, once the team has got on the pitch ?

Was Carra "pretending" to look bemused at the substitution ? and he's the vice captain.

Because of some blind faith there are posters here trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Ignor the obvious truth,lets just get out the flags and the big drums and act as if it's all O.K.
From where I'm sitting there are more and more mistakes being made and what should have been a great season for us is being papered over. We should be starting to show a real improvement under Raffa by now and despite spending our hard earned the expected results are not there to be seen.

Will Lucas get a start this wednesday ? Will Gerrard start on the bench ? Will Crouch (our top scorer last season) even get on the bus ? FCS it's a bloody joke !

by **Scottbot** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:54 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Pathetic.

We win the Derby we lost 3-0 last season, and STILL you bunch of prats havbe a pop at Rafa.
You ungrateful, ignorant b*stards.

"Ooh, ohh - you CAN'T sub Gerrard!!!!"

Didn't his replacement win the winning penalty, brainless cretins? Had it not been for a handball, would Stevie "Can't be dropped" Gerrard's replacement not have scored the winner himself?

You bunch of silly, stupid, arrogant, bigoted w*nkers.

You lot need a f*cking bullet I swear to God.

Get a grip Lando. Winning the game doesn't mean the side, players or manager are above criticism in just the same way that they don't always deserve the criticism they get when they lose sometimes. It's not always as black and white as you paint it. I've had a pop at the manager, does that make me stupid, silly, arrogant or a bigot? NO it doesn't. Do i have a problem with our best player (on the day) being taken off with 20 mins to play and the score tied? YES.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:58 am

JohnBull wrote:Does anyone here think that Gerrard was following Raffas instructions all those times he's charged up the pitch and got us out of jail in all the various cup ties/finals ?

Does anyone really think that a manager has ANY influence on the game, other than subs, once the team has got on the pitch ?

Was Carra "pretending" to look bemused at the substitution ? and he's the vice captain.

Because of some blind faith there are posters here trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Ignor the obvious truth,lets just get out the flags and the big drums and act as if it's all O.K.
From where I'm sitting there are more and more mistakes being made and what should have been a great season for us is being papered over. We should be starting to show a real improvement under Raffa by now and despite spending our hard earned the expected results are not there to be seen.

Will Lucas get a start this wednesday ? Will Gerrard start on the bench ? Will Crouch (our top scorer last season) even get on the bus ? FCS it's a bloody joke !

No one thinks the manager is infallible, unlike you who believes he's fallible all the time. If for example a player is given a free role, then he has license to almost do as he pleases, he can therefore score a goal or miss sitters, it is up to the player to perform, but he would be playing where he has been asked to, if he is told to sit back, but doesn't, then if the manager feels that is lessening our chances of victory its his perogative to take him off. Now if that was the case with SG, whether you agree with the tactics or not, the manager would be right to take him off should he want to.

Does the manager have any influence?!!, well if you mean by instructing players to switch wings, telling them to push up if defending too deep, telling them to play the ball wide and cross rather than through the middle, etc. etc. No he obviously doesn't :lookaround

Oh Carra was bemused, so fcking what? He would have better off making sure he doesn't make silly fouls which could have cost us 2 points. His concern does not make a decision right or wrong.

This is not about banging the drums for Rafa, but did his substitution work...quite simply yes. Should he have subbed SG, well as the decision is likely to have been based on what is best for LFC, then yes, why not? It may not have been the preferred choice by us, but he analysed what was needed or not, and acted accordingly, having the balls to do whats best without regard to the stick he was bound to be ,and is, recieving.

'Its a joke'.... yeah it is, we are having our best points start since RB took over, whilst losing some of our best players to injury, Alonso, Agger, SG and Torres.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:32 am

well the fact remains that we managed to scrape a win.

to suggest lucas coming on was a tactical masterstroke from rafa would beggar belief. there is no way that rafa could predict he would be instrumental, it was a gamble and luckily it came off for us.

the fact remains though that maybe we wouldn't have even needed that last minute penalty if gerrard had stayed on the pitch, he was controlling the game and the tempo of the game and looked like winning us the game, if pennant had been brought on, momo off and keep gerrard on the result could have been over much earlier, and now rafa is saying momo played well, do me a favour mate, that means he will keep playing the liability.

one question for all those who though lucas was a tactical masterstroke rather than a fortunate one, if lucas is so good and rafa knew he would be good in this game, then why was he warming the bench and not in the starting line up/

we got lucky, end of story. there will come a time when the luck runs out and very nearly did in injury time.

the fact rafa wanted us to sit back agaisnt 10 men speaks volumes, he was more concerned wit getting a point than getting 3 when they were there for the taking, and make no mistake with 10 men they were there for the taking

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:46 am

I said it yesterday and I still believe it today: I think it was a huge mistake taking Gerrard off. We got away with it, but it was a huge mistake nonetheless. I just hope that the fall-out from this is not massive. If Gerrard now has a burning desire to go and show the manager that he is undroppable, the team will be better for it. I'm still scratching my head over that substitution, though.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:58 am

Bad Bob wrote:'m still scratching my head over that substitution, though.

watch out for splinters

(joke, don't card me

)

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