Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:35 pm

Three questions (and answers) regarding Agger:

Q: Is he good enough to cope with vast majority of attackers in the league--you know, the ones who play for all the "small clubs" that we still have to beat consistently to win the title?

A: Yes, he is

Q: Can he cope against attackers from the top sides?
A: He struggles a bit on occasion but, as Tuesday showed, he can raise his game to play against the big boys just fine

Q: Is Rafa likely to scrap our solid defensive approach (defending from the front, holding players in midfield, team working for each other, etc.) in favour of gung-ho attacking even if we sign the likes of Eto'o and Villa and Simao and Alves?

A: Ermm, no. He'll still value defensive solidity. Ergo, Agger (and Carra and Finnan for that matter) will still get plenty of protection.

Thus, for me, our money is better spent on attacking players rather than on a world class CB to replace Agger. By all means, if there's still money available and a good CB out there, go get him. But, as a top priority? Not a chance.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:07 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Three questions (and answers) regarding Agger:

Q: Is he good enough to cope with vast majority of attackers in the league--you know, the ones who play for all the "small clubs" that we still have to beat consistently to win the title?

A: Yes, he is

Q: Can he cope against attackers from the top sides?
A: He struggles a bit on occasion but, as Tuesday showed, he can raise his game to play against the big boys just fine

Q: Is Rafa likely to scrap our solid defensive approach (defending from the front, holding players in midfield, team working for each other, etc.) in favour of gung-ho attacking even if we sign the likes of Eto'o and Villa and Simao and Alves?

A: Ermm, no. He'll still value defensive solidity. Ergo, Agger (and Carra and Finnan for that matter) will still get plenty of protection.

Thus, for me, our money is better spent on attacking players rather than on a world class CB to replace Agger. By all means, if there's still money available and a good CB out there, go get him. But, as a top priority? Not a chance.

This summer is about replacing the weakest players in our first team.

Kuyt Bellamy
Kewell Alonso Gerrard Pennant
Riise Agger Carragher Finnan
Reina

Agger, Kuyt, Bellamy, Finnan, Pennant and Riise are the weakest players. Riise could possibly be replaced by Aurelio and Gerrard and Mascherano can alternate with Pennant. Kewell is a weak link due to fitness... The strikers and centre half are the main area of concern. Simple as that. If he plays next season as first choice It will take a tremendous team effort to ensure we win the league as we've had to carry him in quite a few games this season. Simple as.

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:15 pm

but if we buy 5 new players then it'll take a season to get them to gel blah blah blah and we back where we are. i think we got to find maybe 2 positions where we NEED change. A striker is what we really need.

I wouldnt call Pennant a weak player. the last month hes started to proove why we brought him. finann a weak player? Well we havent got anyone really to play if hes injured but i would never say Fianna was a weak link. hes been one of the more consistent ones this season.

I also think the Risse issue is in hand with aurelio. so a winger and striker would do me for next season and get rid of some dead wood

by **LFC2007** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Riise weak?

by **Bad Bob** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:03 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:we've had to carry him in quite a few games this season. Simple as.

Which games in particular Stu? And, were we also carrying Riise in those games, as many people claim? I have very strong doubts that a team with as strong a defensive record as we have (2nd in the league) has been carrying 2 of its back 4 for signficant chunks of the season.

by **LFC2007** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Last season we had the second best defensive record in the league behind Chelsea who conceded three less , were we also carrying Riise back then? The problem then wasn't our defense, it was our attack, we scored 15 goals less than both Man U and Chelsea.

With regard to this season:

It's only been our away form this season where we have been poor defensively, conceding more goals than we've scored, our home form has demonstrated that we are more than capable defensively. I completely disagree that Riise is one of our weaker players. He has been part of a defensive unit that has proven its solidity. The stats clearly prove this, it is more a case of dire away form than a poor defense. Again so far this season we've only conceded 25 to Man u's 26. The stats are conclusive.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:23 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:we've had to carry him in quite a few games this season. Simple as.

Which games in particular Stu? And, were we also carrying Riise in those games, as many people claim? I have very strong doubts that a team with as strong a defensive record as we have (2nd in the league) has been carrying 2 of its back 4 for signficant chunks of the season.

We never have carried Riise. He's a good player.

Agger has had Carragher and Alonso as his get out of jail cards on so many occassions this season I've lost count of specifics.

You'll see next season when he's still weak arially and when he struggles to position himself properly against good sides anyway.

I'm getting bored of this now anyway to be quite honest.

Actually I don't really give a :censored:

what anyone on here thinks now as its patently clear the majority can't see fault with our own players. Its also painfully obvious how the blues actually say "kopites are :censored:

" and I'm actually finding myself agreeing with them. Yet again next season the same people be wondering how on earth we completely failed to come even close to winning the league and will again make rubbish excuses instead of looking at whats infront of them. Yet again I'll probably say a similar thing and it will be dismissed as "you can't see into the future". Well I garentee you, if he doesn't get the right players next season, we'll be in for much of the same.

I mean, how could I be so stupid to think anything other than Carragher's the best in the world, Stevie's the best in the world, Mascherano and Alonso are the best in the world, Sissoko and Agger are potentially the best in the world and Kuyt is class. Reina is also the best in the world and Finnan is the best right back in england. How could I be so foolish to question Benitez judgement, I should surely accept that Sissoko is going to be better than Vieira, I should accept that Gonzalez is going to be a world class player and I should accept that Arbeloa, Josemi and Kromkamp are fantastic players. I also will never again question that Crouch brings "something different" to our team either.

We are absoloutely world class, there are no faults, we just finished 3rd (again outside the top 2) because we are unlucky.

In Rafa we trust.

Absoloute embarressment to this club, all of ya.

:no

by **redtrader74** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:24 pm

Nothing stu has said is controversial, the 5 players he mentioned are probably the weakest in the first team, you can include Kewell, it doesn't mean they are weak, or rubbish, just that in comparison to the others they are weaker, in his opinion.

Personally i think it would be stupid to replace all of them, we would be starting a season with half a new team, and then say we want the premiership.
it is 1st season for kuyt, 1st full season Agger, who has been part of the 2nd best defence in the league. Risse (and aurelio)are the two players for left back, very solid. Bellamy i agree, needs to go, his best qualities are not fully utilised in the system Rafa uses, Pennant has recently started to change my mind about him, but he still seems to have lapses in concentration, not sure about him, it all depends on whether their is someone better available. Finnan is again part of that defence, and is playing well, infact this season he has actually been going past halfway and putting the ball in.

One very good forward, Tevez for me, and we have voronin also, plus if possible a FIT kewell, Fit Garcia and i am sure we will challenge for the title.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:27 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Last season we had the second best defensive record in the league behind Chelsea who conceded three less , were we also carrying Riise back then? The problem then wasn't our defense, it was our attack, we scored 15 goals less than both Man U and Chelsea.

With regard to this season:

It's only been our away form this season where we have been poor defensively, conceding more goals than we've scored, our home form has demonstrated that we are more than capable defensively. I completely disagree that Riise is one of our weaker players. He has been part of a defensive unit that has proven its solidity. The stats clearly prove this, it is more a case of dire away form than a poor defense. Again so far this season we've only conceded 25 to Man u's 26. The stats are conclusive.

Who ever said we were carrying Riise?

Yet again you put words in my mouth and clearly assume I said something I didn't. Read the Riise thread.

In response to your "Riise weak?" coment, I suggest you look at the context of the thread. I said he was one of the weakest players in the first team, I certainly did not say the lad was a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. Now run along.

:no

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Ok, we all know we need to strngthen, but the question is...how much?

How many players would change the team so much that it would take long to get them to work properly. I dont wanna be known as a cup team anymore. We should be challenging for the title. Every year my mates all say 'i think next year liverpool will be right up there. and every year by january its already over.

The defence is fine for now. We have a good defensive record. Centre of midfield is fine, we got stevie, masher, momo and xabi. Left wing we have kewell at times but we have others that can play there. On the right we got pennant who is improving but we need cover for the wing. up front we all know we need to score more goals.

Lets not forget that weve gone mostly the whole season without garcia who, no matter how annoying is at times,. is the sort of player who can turn any game around.

Agger i think is learning his trade with 2 great instructors. Pennant needs to grow up and realise hes part of a team. Kuyt needs to... dunno, score some more fricking goals.

Some people here do have the old rose tinted spectacles on, but there are others who seem to think the world is about to end. Its not THAT bad, but it can definately get better

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:35 pm

dawson99 wrote:Ok, we all know we need to strngthen, but the question is...how much?

How many players would change the team so much that it would take long to get them to work properly. I dont wanna be known as a cup team anymore. We should be challenging for the title. Every year my mates all say 'i think next year liverpool will be right up there. and every year by january its already over.

The defence is fine for now. We have a good defensive record. Centre of midfield is fine, we got stevie, masher, momo and xabi. Left wing we have kewell at times but we have others that can play there. On the right we got pennant who is improving but we need cover for the wing. up front we all know we need to score more goals.

Lets not forget that weve gone mostly the whole season without garcia who, no matter how annoying is at times,. is the sort of player who can turn any game around.

Agger i think is learning his trade with 2 great instructors. Pennant needs to grow up and realise hes part of a team. Kuyt needs to... dunno, score some more fricking goals.

Some people here do have the old rose tinted spectacles on, but there are others who seem to think the world is about to end. Its not THAT bad, but it can definately get better

We need three strikers, a centre half and a fit left winger at least as good as Kewell.

Simple as. If we get that we will challenge, if we don't expect more of the same.

by **Sabre** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:35 pm

The Riise debate has it's own thread and has been done to death, and it's obvious the lad has people in his camp and a detractors' camp too.

The left back has been an issue this years. Warnock might have been a weak link in this squad and he's been replaced by a well contrasted and known player like Aurelio. Despite Riise always being underrated, no matter who came he ends up playing. Even when Aurelio wasn't injured, Aurelio played as LM and Riise never stopped playing quite regularly.

And that's because he's a solid player. He's not only a decent defender, he has extra attributes that make him important in our game. He has a long throw in, and believe it or not that meant danger in the opposition boxes more than once this season. Many tactics we do are based on the long throws that Riise puts after rubbing the ball with his shirt.

Long shots, with great goals, versatility, because you can play him as a LM in Barcelona and avoid Messi has more service (Arbeloa was grateful for that), Stamina, because he runs in min 76 the wing when the oppo is tired. Hell, I can't understand when this lad will get the credit he deserves.

This is one of the players that when he does a bad game like every player does, people talk about him badly during days.

Unfair.

by **redtrader74** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:44 pm

stu 'i garentee you, if he doesn't get the right players in next season, we'll be in for much the same'
thats rather obvious, nobody on this forum has said that we will win the league with the same squad.

Neither has anyone called the whole team world class. You have just combined points from different posters and exaggerrated them in your rant as though that is a consensus of thought.

What is embarressing is that you claim to support the club, but all you post is negative comments, not everything with the club is bad, you should also appreciate the positives that have been achieved since Rafa.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:13 pm

The difference in Liverpool and Everton in terms of ability is probably Reina, Carragher and Gerrard.

Thats hardly a positive now is it.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:19 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:The difference in Liverpool and Everton in terms of ability is probably Reina, Carragher and Gerrard.

Thats hardly a positive now is it.

its a positive when your in the final of the champions league.
it just shows people how close everton are to beating the likes of barca away and chelsea over two legs.
thanks for that nugget of information.

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