Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

The difference in Liverpool and Everton in terms of ability is probably Reina, Carragher and Gerrard.

Thats hardly a positive now is it.

what do you mean the difference?
you cant seriously say that: agger, finann, alonso, momo,masher,garcia wouldnt walk into the team?

i think you've been watching too much general hospital and getting a little bit over the top dude

[LFC2007]

Last season we had the second best defensive record in the league behind Chelsea who conceded three less , were we also carrying Riise back then? The problem then wasn't our defense, it was our attack, we scored 15 goals less than both Man U and Chelsea.

With regard to this season:

It's only been our away form this season where we have been poor defensively, conceding more goals than we've scored, our home form has demonstrated that we are more than capable defensively. I completely disagree that Riise is one of our weaker players. He has been part of a defensive unit that has proven its solidity. The stats clearly prove this, it is more a case of dire away form than a poor defense. Again so far this season we've only conceded 25 to Man u's 26. The stats are conclusive.

Who ever said we were carrying Riise?

Yet again you put words in my mouth and clearly assume I said something I didn't. Read the Riise thread.

In response to your "Riise weak?" coment, I suggest you look at the context of the thread. I said he was one of the weakest players in the first team, I certainly did not say the lad was a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. Now run along.

I am saying he is not one of the weakest players in the first team, likewise I have also made the point that he was part of a team that has done well defensively.

You called him one of our weakest players, it is a TEAM game Stu, the stats back up what I am saying regarding our defense, please read them.

You said, 'this summer is about replacing the weakest players in the team', you included Riise in this list, we happen to disagree over who these 'weak' players are.

I think it's about time you 'RUN ALONG' Stu, as I've said before, cut the chat, go and prove your talent to the world.

[redtrader74]

(Stu)..Comparisons are futile, there are other factors that make a TEAM, and you know that, Desire, commitment, the manager, expectation all make a difference between clubs and the level of success.

Surely you understand that we are probably two thirds through a rebuilding programme? We can criticise all day, but as Benitez said, 'If you need a table leg you don't buy the best one, you buy the one that fits' Strange i know, but the point is made. He has been employed to do a job his way, not mine or yours, and so far in 3 of the four competitions we play in he has proved a success.

In all honesty with the obvious disadvantages we have/had against the mancs, asnl, chelsea, not just money but stable mgmt, did you really believe when rafa got here that we could have 1cl, 1clfinal, 1fa, 1ccf, within 3 years?

If we get the money this year, and we do not make a serious challenge i suggest that is when we start the negativity, up until now there has not been that much to genuinely be critical about.

[Stu.Murph]

The difference in Liverpool and Everton in terms of ability is probably Reina, Carragher and Gerrard.

Thats hardly a positive now is it.

what do you mean the difference?
you cant seriously say that: agger, finann, alonso, momo,masher,garcia wouldnt walk into the team?

i think you've been watching too much general hospital and getting a little bit over the top dude

Replace Gerrard with Sissoko, replace Carragher with someone like Stubbs and replace Reina with Carson. Are you telling me we'd be third place then?

I think you're talking out of your .

If anyone actually looks at Everton's team theres alot of players in there that are as good as the ones in our first team. Yobo, Arteta, Cahill, Johnson to name a few.

People seem to think the gaps immense, when the fact is you could put Gerrard, Carragher and Reina into their team and they'd be easily as good as us. In the wide area's I'd even say they're better than us, which is embarressing.

[dawson99]

if its embarressing dont say it. I dnot think any of there players would walk into our starting 11.
Where our main problem lies is when we look at the squad, but we got the core of a great team.

and as for rating johnson ahead of anyone, you are having a laugh. Arteta is a good player, but hed be lucky to make our bench. Cahills good, give you that one, and yobo is no better than who we got. apart from that, our team pi$$es all over them if you ask me

[Stu.Murph]

Last season we had the second best defensive record in the league behind Chelsea who conceded three less , were we also carrying Riise back then? The problem then wasn't our defense, it was our attack, we scored 15 goals less than both Man U and Chelsea.

With regard to this season:

It's only been our away form this season where we have been poor defensively, conceding more goals than we've scored, our home form has demonstrated that we are more than capable defensively. I completely disagree that Riise is one of our weaker players. He has been part of a defensive unit that has proven its solidity. The stats clearly prove this, it is more a case of dire away form than a poor defense. Again so far this season we've only conceded 25 to Man u's 26. The stats are conclusive.

Who ever said we were carrying Riise?

Yet again you put words in my mouth and clearly assume I said something I didn't. Read the Riise thread.

In response to your "Riise weak?" coment, I suggest you look at the context of the thread. I said he was one of the weakest players in the first team, I certainly did not say the lad was a bad player by any stretch of the imagination. Now run along.

I am saying he is not one of the weakest players in the first team, likewise I have also made the point that he was part of a team that has done well defensively.

You called him one of our weakest players, it is a TEAM game Stu, the stats back up what I am saying regarding our defense, please read them.

You said, 'this summer is about replacing the weakest players in the team', you included Riise in this list, we happen to disagree over who these 'weak' players are.

I think it's about time you 'RUN ALONG' Stu, as I've said before, cut the chat, go and prove your talent to the world.

You really are a grade "a" bellend aren't you.

Again you show a lack of ability to actually read what was written. Considering you were banging on about my spelling, I would have thought (mistakenly obviously), that your reading skills may have been a little better.

I'll repeat myself AGAIN as you clearly lack the intelligence to hear something once and take it in.

>>>>>>>> I never once said Riise was a weak player.   <<<<<<<<<<<<

Did you see that? Up there... look ^.

I classed him as one of the weaker players in the team. Hyypia, Carragher, Alonso, Gerrard, Kewell and Reina are all as good. Thats over half of the first team thats better than him. Of the players mentioned above you could possibly say Agger is of equal ability along with Finnan and Pennant.

Again I repeat, Riise is one of the weaker players in our team. He is not one of our best players, there are probably 5 or 6 players in his position who are as good if not better in the league aswell.

While being a good player and one that isn't in desperate need of replacement he's not one of our best players.

[Stu.Murph]

if its embarressing dont say it. I dnot think any of there players would walk into our starting 11.
Where our main problem lies is when we look at the squad, but we got the core of a great team.

and as for rating johnson ahead of anyone, you are having a laugh. Arteta is a good player, but hed be lucky to make our bench. Cahills good, give you that one, and yobo is no better than who we got. apart from that, our team pi$$es all over them if you ask me

Arteta's probably as good as anyone we have with the exception of Gerrard.

I think its extremely naive to think otherwise.

[dawson99]

sometimes stu i cant work out if you are just fishing or believe what you say. id say half/half.

To say Arteta is as good as alonso is just...silly. Masher and momo and stevie and xabi... all better than arteta who i do like as a player but hes not good enough for us.

And to say johnson... well im sorry but the guy dives, and hes just an old fashioned thuggish striker. I would bet money that Kuyt outscores him next season.

Its when we are compared to the other big three the difference is shown. Not in the strongest 11 but in the depth, thats where we really lacking, and up front we need to replace 2 of them (fowler and bellamy)

and i cant believe you think riise is a weak player!!!

[redtrader74]

sometimes stu i cant work out if you are just fishing or believe what you say. id say half/half.

To say Arteta is as good as alonso is just...silly. Masher and momo and stevie and xabi... all better than arteta who i do like as a player but hes not good enough for us.

And to say johnson... well im sorry but the guy dives, and hes just an old fashioned thuggish striker. I would bet money that Kuyt outscores him next season.

Its when we are compared to the other big three the difference is shown. Not in the strongest 11 but in the depth, thats where we really lacking, and up front we need to replace 2 of them (fowler and bellamy)

and i cant believe you think riise is a weak player!!!

Artetas closest equivalents in LFC are stevie and xabi, and he's not better than them. In overall ability he is better than momo. Masha is about same, but better tackler, but these are totally different players and the comparison is irrelevant.

I know stu holds some insane opinions, but it amazes me that people can't read correctly, he said that Riise is one of the weakest, not weak. To make it simpler, he is not one of our top 5-6 players, which is probably true, although still a very good player.

[Stu.Murph]

sometimes stu i cant work out if you are just fishing or believe what you say. id say half/half.

To say Arteta is as good as alonso is just...silly. Masher and momo and stevie and xabi... all better than arteta who i do like as a player but hes not good enough for us.

And to say johnson... well im sorry but the guy dives, and hes just an old fashioned thuggish striker. I would bet money that Kuyt outscores him next season.

Its when we are compared to the other big three the difference is shown. Not in the strongest 11 but in the depth, thats where we really lacking, and up front we need to replace 2 of them (fowler and bellamy)

and i cant believe you think riise is a weak player!!!

Artetas closest equivalents in LFC are stevie and xabi, and he's not better than them. In overall ability he is better than momo. Masha is about same, but better tackler, but these are totally different players and the comparison is irrelevant.

I know stu holds some insane opinions, but it amazes me that people can't read correctly, he said that Riise is one of the weakest, not weak. To make it simpler, he is not one of our top 5-6 players, which is probably true, although still a very good player.

So what insane opinions are these?

[dawson99]

well we all know my insane opinions.

I think stu you know we need players, but u r taking it to an extreme by comparing us to neverton. We have shown that on our night we raise our game and can beat the best, the problem is the rest of the season. Maybe we got a cup team mentality now i dunno.

We should have really nailed third place and should be a lot closer to our rivals but we havent got enough coming off the bench, thats my insane view anyway

[redtrader74]

For a start i will never believe Barton has more ability than Gerrard... before  you say it i don't think stevie is perfect.

Secondly i do think, in some cases, players can improve their skills/ qualities. Remember Chris Sutton, cb to cf, became international class cf. Also paul warhurst, defender until 23 then played cf.Thats why i believe it's possible, should sissoko put in the necessary effort/practice, he could become a competent passer, not world class, competent. i also think his eye injury has affected him this year, missus is an optician, his kind of injury can leave a mark on the eye which can magnify light.

[Stu.Murph]

well we all know my insane opinions.

I think stu you know we need players, but u r taking it to an extreme by comparing us to neverton. We have shown that on our night we raise our game and can beat the best, the problem is the rest of the season. Maybe we got a cup team mentality now i dunno.

We should have really nailed third place and should be a lot closer to our rivals but we havent got enough coming off the bench, thats my insane view anyway

Dawson, I don't think theres ALOT wrong mate. I've said it a million times. We aren't miles away and there isn't that much "rubbish" in the squad anymore.

I've made if completely obvious where we need to improve.

We NEED a top class centre half and we need at least two first choice strikers. We could also do with a left winger as Harry Kewell isn't reliable, but the left winger we bring in must be as good as Kewell at least.

If we were to sell Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy, along with Cisse and Gonzalez aswell as the sale of Pongolle we'd raise enough to sign three strikers, and a centre half without question and probably have funds left aswell.

Like I've said, Tevez, Anelka, Owen, Ashton will all be availablefor the right money, Woodgate we missed out on... But there are others. We need four first teamers, no more squad players and no more average players. Four first teamer then we'll be there, we'll have a great squad and a really strong first 11 thats capable of beating the best regularly.

[Stu.Murph]

For a start i will never believe Barton has more ability than Gerrard... before  you say it i don't think stevie is perfect.

Secondly i do think, in some cases, players can improve their skills/ qualities. Remember Chris Sutton, cb to cf, became international class cf. Also paul warhurst, defender until 23 then played cf.Thats why i believe it's possible, should sissoko put in the necessary effort/practice, he could become a competent passer, not world class, competent. i also think his eye injury has affected him this year, missus is an optician, his kind of injury can leave a mark on the eye which can magnify light.

I also never said Barton was as good a player as Gerrard, he's not, but he's not as far away as people want you to believe. When Gerrard first came through at Liverpool though he was very similar to what Barton is now due to physically being largely the same. Gerrard however grew, Barton didn't. Gerrard is now much the same as Barton in nearly every area they are so similar its unreal, but physically Gerrard is world class overall, he's a complete athelete. Barton, for his excellent stamina is certainly not athletically anywhere near Steven Gerrard.

The reason you wouldn't even consider this is due to Barton playing for City. I'll tell you now, It doesn't matter what club you play for. A player is a player. There are good players scattered around that aren't well known, Nugent, Bullard, Barton, Noble, Kitson, Ryan Taylor to name a few. All of which are capable of playing international football but will never get a look in beccause of the club they play for.

Chris Sutton also didn't gain an attribute he didn't have. I've said it a million times and will continue to say it, professional  players will never become something they aren't and gain attributes they don't have.

On a side note, Barton has £5,500,000 release clause in his contract and a little birdie told me Moyes has phoned McKay (Barton's agent this week) saying regardless of what happened he's still interested. Might be worth a fiver.

[dawson99]

from what ive heard barton is off to celtic to replace lennon.. but thats another story.

Im on the same page as u stu but id keep dirk. Its his first season stepping up a gear league wise and hes had a lot of personal stuff to deal with. Hes earned the chance at a second season.