Liverpool FC Forum

by **duk** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:12 pm

nah i can take it lol that's just my opinion

we all want the same thing over all but of corse we're not all going to agree how to get it

by **grayghost** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:19 pm

Bolton, Blackburn, Everton away from home are top teams and who are thease players who needed time to settle in. Gonzales was injured at the start kuyt never played the first couple of games and when he did he was on top form and Bellamy has been playing in the prem all his life we never got Masherino and that a right back till Jan so players needing time to settle in should be no excuse.

by **EddieC** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:27 pm

grayghost wrote:Bolton, Blackburn, Everton away from home are top teams and who are thease players who needed time to settle in. Gonzales was injured at the start kuyt never played the first couple of games and when he did he was on top form and Bellamy has been playing in the prem all his life we never got Masherino and that a right back till Jan so players needing time to settle in should be no excuse.

Bolton, Blackburn & Everton are not top teams, I don't care what you say. They are games we should be winning end of. At the end of the day there are only three teams I can understand us losing against, Manure, Sh!tski & Arsenal. Much as I want us to win these games, and much as it hurts when we do lose, I can understand it because hate em or not, they have very good teams. But can you honestly say that you go into games against Bolton, Blackburn & Everton thinking 'We'll be lucky to get something out of this'?

This summer we signed Bellamy, Kuyt, Gonzales, Aurelio & Pennant for the senior squad, that's a lot of players to intergrate and it takes time.

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:32 pm

Sell dudek, Bellamy and a few others (zenden, fowler)

Get ina top class striker and a cb. (Richards if a good price, tevez or villa up front?)

Too many players and it'll take ages again to sort out the team.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:42 pm

In reply to your post which was directed specifically at me Stu.Murph......

Firstly I find it very sad to hear things from supposed real Liverpool fans like 'I find posts like this absoloutely laughable and am quite happy to rip such posts to shreds'
It's pathetic, you get yourself so worked up when I have actually made my points and substantiated them in an accurate way.

My post was not specifically directed at you, I mentioned your quote as typical of what the people write on this forum, there were others however.

Hence I never proclaimed to know your 'background, opinions and judgement', I was commenting on the topic and the content of that topic, not your personal credentials.

Likewise you made another assumption here: 'You have also no idea which professional's and very well qualified people I actually know and converse with daily'. I never asked about your personal credentials, never spoke about you personally nor did I intend to. I commented on the content of your post and other posts, in which I responded fairly by substantiating my points.

Again you make more assumptions in your post ' you may think you're above learning and know the sport inside out'
Please tell me exactly where in my post did I state this or infer this, I gave a substantiated arugment e.g. You complain about the money Benitez has wasted, Ferguson took four years to get it right and was the biggest spender in the division at the time. The league today is far tougher than it was in 1990 and when you consider that Chelsea have had an extra 100m+ to spend on players that is the difference between going out and getting a Simao to getting Jermaine Pennant.

The club will go nowhere if people like you are at Benitez's throat all the time, 'I for one am running out of patience for him'. He achieved a record points total last season, this season hasn't lived up to expectations but at Valencia he won the title then came fifth, then won the title and the UEFA cup.
I believe it will be in the summer when he has the first opportunity of spending money comparable to that of Man utd and Chelsea that he will deliver. As yet he hasn't had the opportunity to.

You cannot make the judgement that sissoko is a poor player that will never eradicate the flaws in his game, or that ' you can;t make diamonds out of :censored:

' - he is not :censored:

. That is exactly what I mean by conjecture and premature opinion making. It took Zidane until he was 25+ to reach a level that was world Class, Sissoko is only 22 and he will improve. I watched his performance in the Charity shield last year and he was outstanding and by far the man of the match - in that game he displayed all his qualities to a tee. He is a young man from Africa trying to do his best in the North West of England, before which he was at Auxerre then Valencia. He does actually have a life, he has had to learn the English culture, the language and adapt to Merseyside all on his own. That takes something, his attributes in terms of ability with the ball can be improved but they are things he can work on, he has the fundamental attributes that are needed to be a combative midfield player.He is a different style of player to what we've got, as Benitez says its about' options' - we don't have anyone who can run for as long as him and be as effective at winning the ball back as he is and has shown. Even Carragher said last season that they believed he was probably the outstanding player of the season,second to Gerrard. He will be at Liverpool for many years to come and will be successful, and I'd wager you for that.

You think that Sissoko has effectively plateaud at age 22 (bar minor improvements) and will never learn to 'pass a ball'. I would bet you every penny I have that he will be world class, and he will be a key player for us in the future.

Baros however, is a different kettle of fish. He has always lacked basic attributes such as player awareness, his ability in the air and he has plateaud out, Sissoko has shown his ability last season on a consistent basis in the premier league. Baros never did this, he played well but on an inconsistent basis and was unreliable. My point therefore was that Benitez did well to play him, to use him significantly in a champions league winning side and thus improve his value. Rumours of £8m do not constitute a bid of £8m, you are speculating as to what we could have got for him. We got a concrete offer of £6.5m from Villa when they had the money - David O'leary has said he did not have the money the season before, and there was managerial uncertainty at Valencia (another purportedly interested club) therefore to suggest we lost potential money on him is unfounded.

I'm afraid we are only going to disagree about Kuyt, only the future will tell us who is right on that one. He has shown his attributes, he is a player who lacks pace but has drive, excellent link up play, aerial ability, awareness and defensive nouse. I believe he will come good next season when Benitez finds the right mix of players. It is only his first season in England, again I re-iterate that he has had to adapt to a new way of life, that isn't easy.

You argue about the money Benitez has wasted on players like 'arbeloa' for example, he has shown he has the ability in his first two games, he has dipped since then but he is not used to the English game nor can he speak English nor has he adapted to life in England. You are judging far far too early on that one, Benitez had to sign a full back with a limited budget i.e. £2m and I think there aren't many better for that price.

If you compare the wasted money on Juan sebastian Veron a £30m player, then I think it puts this into persepective. Benitez has made a few poor signings but, they were low value signings for example players like josemi and gonzales. You forget that Man utd and chelsea have lost money on players, players of significantly more value than Liverpools.

You stated ealrier that Benitez had 'missed out' on players such as 'Anelka, Woodgate, Taylor and Bullard'. I think every signing benitez has made in thos positions has been significantly better than the aforementioned with the exception of matthew taylor. Agger has been exceptional at adapting to centre back at such an early age, he clearly has the quality and I would wager you that he will be a fixture in years to come. Anelka, has a track record at Arsenal, Real Madrid, PSG and Man city of not having a burning desire to play. He couldn;t cut it at Real Madrid a player that cost £23m pounds, nor could he cut it at PSG or Fenherbace. Woodgate is a talented player but he is incredibly injury prone, more so than any player over the ast two years. Therefore to pay £7m plus is a big risk for a player who's future is uncertain due to perpetual injury.

Finally, I'm not pretending everything is pretty in the rose garden but it is certainly a lot prettier than under Houllier. You cannot compare the flop signings of Baros, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Heggem etc......... with Sissoko, Alonso, Mascherano, Kuyt, Bellamy, Crouch......................
there is a distinct gulf in class between the calibre of players Benitez has signed compared to Houllier.

Of course Benitez should be accountable, but to constantly barrack him when his record is admirable and progress empirical is pathetic. The manager needs the support of the fans as well as our trust and confidence, who do suggest would do a better job than Benitez under the circumstances and on the money he has spent???

We are building towards a successful next few years, there is no question. I am glad to say you are in the overwhelming minority in your views compared to the majority of scousers who are optimistic and excited about our future and who `will get behind the management team instead of undermining it.

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:48 pm

LFC2007 is my new fave

by **grayghost** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:51 pm

EddieC wrote:
grayghost wrote:Bolton, Blackburn, Everton away from home are top teams and who are thease players who needed time to settle in. Gonzales was injured at the start kuyt never played the first couple of games and when he did he was on top form and Bellamy has been playing in the prem all his life we never got Masherino and that a right back till Jan so players needing time to settle in should be no excuse.

Bolton, Blackburn & Everton are not top teams, I don't care what you say. They are games we should be winning end of. At the end of the day there are only three teams I can understand us losing against, Manure, Sh!tski & Arsenal. Much as I want us to win these games, and much as it hurts when we do lose, I can understand it because hate em or not, they have very good teams. But can you honestly say that you go into games against Bolton, Blackburn & Everton thinking 'We'll be lucky to get something out of this'?

This summer we signed Bellamy, Kuyt, Gonzales, Aurelio & Pennant for the senior squad, that's a lot of players to intergrate and it takes time.

we should beat those teams but we were not good enough to do that and we are still not good enough just because we are Liverpool does not mean we have a right to just walk across teams like the Evertons and Boltons of the prem. At home i totaly aspect us to win but away thats a diffrent matter
We haven't had good away form all season to many of are players don't turn up for the away trips to the less glamarious places like shefield Bolton and villa.

Get 5 new players in
2 wingers
2 strikers
1 defender
then we can start to dream of glory

by **redtrader74** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:51 pm

Good post LfC2007, i think Sissoko is good and will be very good, but world class? don't think he can improve his weaknesses that much, can i take that bet??!! :grinning:

by **redtrader74** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:01 pm

I have noticed a really horrible trend in the posts.....Anelka. Why on earth would you want him ? We go on about buying the best and you want a player that has never settled at one club, been all over Europe and ended up at the bring and bung sales in Bolton.
He may have talent but so far has utilised very little of it, bar one season at Arsenal.
If as expected we do have the funds this summer then we need to buy a top forward(with pace, strength), and a left winger. It has been our lack of goals in tight games that has stopped us this season imo. The defence has been very good, best home record.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:02 pm

EddieC wrote:
s@int wrote:1 Van der Sar Reina
2 Neville Finnan
3 Evra Aurelio
4 Heinze Arbeloa
5 Ferdinand Carra
6 Brown Hyypia
7 Ronaldo Gonzales
8 Rooney Kuyt
9 Saha Crouch
11 Giggs Riise
13 Park Pennant
14 Smith Bellamy
15 Vidic Agger
16 Carrick Alonso
18 Scholes Gerrard
20 Solskjaer Fowler
21 Dong
22 O'Shea Sissoko
23 Richardson
24 Fletcher Mascherano
27 Silvestre

I have tried to match them the best I can without being too ridiculous or biased and unfortunately I have to say that when it come to quality they have more to offer. You could argue and adjust the comparison and no doubt make it look better, but would that honestly help.

I'd say that's a good & fair comparison s@int, and looking at that, I'd say those lineups are pretty evenly matched with the exception of three places: Ronaldo vs Gonzales, Giggs vs Riise, and Rooney vs Kuyt.

I honestly feel we're in the same position as last summer, two wingers & a striker needed, but we need to get the right ones this time.

not to mention Heinze>Arbeloa and Saha>Crouch. He didn't even mention Vidic either.

If you were to pick a side between the two it would look like this.

Reina

Neville Carra Ferdinand Heinze

Ronaldo Gerrard Alonso/Scholes Giggs

Rooney Saha

3 Liverpool players (4 at the most). Is it any surprise Man are so far ahead at the minute?

by **grayghost** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:07 pm

Well posted LFC2007. world class is banded arond a bit to much for my likeing. Momo will be a very good player when he is older say 26 but world class is to far to reach for him

by **redtrader74** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:08 pm

grayghost wrote:Well posted LFC2007. world class is banded arond a bit to much for my likeing. Momo will be a very good player when he is older say 26 but world class is to far to reach for him

you just copied me! :wwww

by **grayghost** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:11 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
grayghost wrote:Well posted LFC2007. world class is banded arond a bit to much for my likeing. Momo will be a very good player when he is older say 26 but world class is to far to reach for him

you just copied me!

You must have wrote that while i was thinking what to say. Great minds think alike hey. :nod

by **aCe'** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:11 pm

EddieC wrote:
duk wrote:I believe we should be aiming for another level and sell everyone that really isn't good enough. IMHO we need to sell alot more than the ones you've pointed out if we want to win the league:

Mohamed Sissoko - honestly he isn't good enough Xabi and Mascherano will almost always come before him. Still good get a decent bit of cash if we sell now.
Dirk Kuyt - I like his attitude, he works his lil blonde off but he isn't quality, he isn't what we need. Sell him sooner rather than later else were gonna lose a hell of a lot of money
Craig Bellamy - Good at Blackburn type team not LFC, i like him but i don't think he'll score enough goals to win us the league
Gabriel Paletta - Rubbish God only knows why we bothered
Peter Crouch - Sell him whist he's hot!!! I honestly think he isn't good enough he misses too many, but he is in great form and we could get good money for him, he is our best striker currently but that isn't a good enough reason to keep him, Baros was our best striker at the time so we delayed selling him only for him to play the next season and lose value.
Mark González - Never liked him never will, Kewell, Riise, Fabio and even Zenden Bring more to the team.
Álvaro Arbeloa - good but never going to be great Warnock was far better
Jerzy Dudek - Past it and a muppet
Florent Sinama-Pongolle - fun to watch but never quality
Anthony Le Tallec - Utter rubish
Djibril Cissé - Doesn't get enough credit but plays for himself not LFC

I know for a fact many will dis-agree but we need to take the next step

You're having a laugh aren't you?

Too many people want to make wholesale changes where it's not needed. IMO we have a decent squad, we just need to add a few bits of genuine class to it in the summer, players who can change the game for us. Let's look at Manure's squad, the one that looks certain to win the league now:

1 Van der Sar
2 Neville
3 Evra
4 Heinze
5 Ferdinand
6 Brown
7 Ronaldo
8 Rooney
9 Saha
11 Giggs
13 Park
14 Smith
15 Vidic
16 Carrick
18 Scholes
20 Solskjaer
21 Dong
22 O'Shea
23 Richardson
24 Fletcher
27 Silvestre
29 Kuszczak
32 Cathcart
33 Eagles
34 Shawcross
35 Lee
36 Gray
38 Heaton
42 Barnes

How many of those can you say are better than what we have in our squad now? Cos I'd say only three, Ronaldo, Rooney & Giggs. The fact is unless you're Chelsea, you're never gonna have a squad packed with superstars. A lot of these players people are talking about selling I accept shouldn't be first team regulars, but are still definately good enough to have some involvement in the squad.

One of the other reasons I think Manure have had such a good season is consitency. The only major signing they needed to make in the summer was Carrick. Ok we're still a way off & we need to sign more than one player, but I feel we shouldn't be ringing the changes just for the sake of it. A bit of quality on the left & right, and a world class striker, and I'll be happy. With the following to go:

Cisse
Kewell
Zenden
FSP
Le Tallec
Dudek
Bellamy

With the exception of Bellamy & Zenden, all players who haven't really featured for us anyway.

good post duk....

eddie.... seriously ... what ?! look at the squads and compare !

out of the 2 teams these would make my starting 11.

Reina
G.Neville
Carragher
Ferdinand
Evra
Ronaldo
Giggs
Scholes
Gerrard
Rooney
Saha

3 liverpool players and 8 manutd...

difference in quality is so obvious ... cant understand how u cant see it !

u think our players are 'just as good'...
league table says otherwise...
our attacking options are embarrasing in comparison..

by **grayghost** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:18 pm

We need 5 new players
2 wingers
2 forwards
1 left back

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